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DE, more communication would be greatly appreciated


iPathos
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I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, boy is it frustrating to have an issue you're passionate about continue to go unresolved. I had to spam every DE update and hotfix post for months just to get an acknowledgement from DE about Khora's Whipclaw LoS being a buggy mess. Just the basic acknowledgement that they understood that it was a problem was all I needed to stop, and eventually it did get addressed, but I feel like that was only because I made myself as annoying as possible and wouldn't shut up about it. If I hadn't said anything she'd still have a half-broken ability. So yeah, I'd like more communication.

On the other hand, I know that DE does care - or at least their individual employees do. The Community team is doing what they can with what they have. The public Trello board is a good step in the right direction, even if it's never updated and doesn't often acknowledge common feedback. They do reply, sometimes, when they have something to share. But there's only so much time in the day, and they're also incredibly busy with stuff like The New War, so obviously they can't work on every single little tiny thing. But that's also their fault for always biting off more than they can realistically chew. And they've always struggled with this stuff. So yeah, I know that expecting more communication isn't exactly realistic.

I think they could benefit a lot from a public-facing bug reporting system like you see in other games. For example, Star Citizen's Issue Council (https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/115009643527-Bug-Reports-Using-the-Issue-Council). Players can start, vote on, and contribute to bug reports, see that they've been acknowledged or accepted, and see if they've been fixed. I believe Zendesk, which DE already uses for support, offers this kind of product as well. It's basically what DE's doing with Trello and the new focused update Feedback subforums, just more formal. They could also benefit a lot from a real roadmap as well. Not some doodles on a borrowed whiteboard, a proper https://www.warframe.com/roadmap. Tell us that melee tweaks are the focus of the next update cycle, and that modular Archwing and more Railjack comes the cycle after. Show us where Pets 6.0 is at. Tell us what they're focusing on so we can temper our expectations instead of leaving us to go crazy with no information.

Edited by PublikDomain
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12 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

So yeah, I'd like more communication.

Indeed, this would solve most player issues. Sure, there will always be the impatient spammers, but I think a lot of people are like me and are willing to exercise a lot of patient as long as we are occasionally updated and not almost completely ignored. 

I think a lot of the time DE doesn't acknowledge bugs until they are close to solving them, and I think that is a mistake. Acknowledge right away the bug is there, even if you have to honestly admit that based on your first probes into it and other things the team is busy on, that it might not be addressed for a bit. Some people might be impatient, but just the difference between being open about the situation and ghosting people until you have a fix can psychologically make a HUGE difference. Way more people will exercise way more patience overall, and will feel like their concerns are being addressed, even if it does take a long time to fix for whatever reason. 

I know how hard bugs can be to track down. I've studied computer programming. Debugging being such a big part of the job is probably the main reason I didn't pursue it as a career. So I understand, but communication can go a long way towards calming people bothered by such issues... before they get out of hand. 

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16 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

So yeah, I'd like more communication.

This is the entire root of the problem and at least half of the reason I made this thread. I've gone into detail about all the other aspects because as I stated before; it's reached a boiling/tipping point. 

28 minutes ago, trst said:

Does their current inability to keep on top of these issues mean they don't take feedback? I honestly wonder how anyone could imagine such a conclusion.

The fact you consider that my point of view is baffling in and of itself. It's been said already on the previous page that they clearly do read these things, even if they don't publicly show it in the vast majority of cases - that doesn't detract from the other half-reason why I'm so adamant about there needing to be some form of change regarding at the very least acknowledgement. See my mention of the Trello board's near-inactivity - more frequent updates to this alone would satisfy my main concern and help assuage the doubts of many, anything more would be absolutely splendid. The idea of having something similar to Minecraft's Bug Tracker would be a stellar method of killing two birds with one stone - it lets the players know. If we don't know, it's left up to speculation. I can't help but think you haven't read even half of the clarifications I've made in this thread by your coming to that conclusion.

What @Tesseract7777 said above details several things that lie at the core of the problem - I'm not asking that they "stop being lazy and deal with the bugs faster", as much as the second half of that sentence would be nice if it was true. I'm saying the lack of presence and even partial transparency about these situations is hurting them in the long and short term. If they are worried that telling players "thanks for informing us, we may not be able to fix it quickly but we will work on fixing it" and then the fact of the fix not coming out fast causing player impatience, it's a thousand times worse when they say quite literally nothing and we're left to speculate. There are many, many times after updates they've told us that they're going to look at fixing bugs for a while - still we have many years-old bugs that have yet to even have their existence publicly acknowledged. 

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  • iPathos changed the title to DE, you need to start actually acknowledging input from your community. We love this game, but it's looking more and more like you don't.

rants like this only prove that you probably CANT handle mature responses from devs. Your post is counterproductive to what you actually want. 

I find it amazing how some players just happen to hit every game breaking bug in Warframe. Truth is- the game works for most of us. 

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The bugs you have listed is new at least some of it and bugs take a considerable amount of time to fix.

And I do agree cause some older bugs are still in the game.

And they are developing new war which makes it harder to focus on fixing the bugs, and maybe it's buggy as hell.(I don't make sense)

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21 hours ago, iPathos said:

Right, I'm pushed to doing this because I am sick to death of DE either ignoring entirely, or refusing to respond, expand on, detail, acknowledge, or in any way interact with the community outside of their own very limited stream response. Sure, they have a lot of "community streams" happening, but the actual responses given to any real concerns during those is little to none on  a good day. I'm tired, I'm annoyed, I'm frustrated and I'm entirely sure they can do better. This has nothing to do with company acquisition behind the scenes - that happens with any game studio. This is longer-standing than that.

You used to be known as the devs who stood out because of how much you listened to the players, how much you really considered their input into your game and their feedback around not just what went in, but also what was an idea.

I understand that COVID-19 has been a barrier in many more ways than one, but this started before that even came onto the scene - it's only gotten that much worse since it did. I love Warframe, if I didn't I wouldn't have spent 4500+ hours in-mission and well over 12000 hours in total otherwise. If I didn't, I wouldn't have applied for the Guide of the Lotus position when it was known that you needed someone from the Oceanic region. I don't regret my input and time dedication because of that, but it does it make me question your own choices as we stand here.

 

The fact you even have bug report forums with a proper format is a huge boon, some of us have spent years asking you to fix those bugs with that exact format ad-infinitum. But here we are, with the bugs still in the game and with (in almost every case) no response. Please, both now and when you can act properly without having to worry about quarantine or social distancing, try to go back to why we loved you as developers in the first place. It's a sad story to even try to look at things as they are, it honestly depresses me and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Also, as an aside; the Warframe Community Discord has never lost love for the game. We want to try contribute how we can to the community as a whole and to try to improve the game as best we see. Please, please, PLEASE; respond to people. It is not a good look and it makes us ever more frustrated as we await acknowledgement while reporting things that to many are very obvious.

As a few examples;

  • Voidrig's helmet spinning incorrectly with any other helmet than its default
  • Amalgam Furax Body Count behaving incorrectly because of the changes made with "Melee 3.0"
  • Many multiples of out-of-bounds areas being issues even though said areas are not out of bounds (such as several doors in the new corpus gas city tileset - they reset you for no reason with no preamble)
  • The current issue with Pathocyst dealing half of the damage it should when using Heavy Attacks.
  • Nidus Prime not counting for Invigorations (I am aware this may have been fixed with today's hotfix, I do not have Nidus Prime so I cannot confirm this from my own experience even so. The point is that it was still broken even after the first "fix".)
  • Merulina simply not allowing movement through multiple tilesets because of vertical issues where you "bonk your head", let alone the fact it should be moddable.
  • Expanded buff icons (only specific ones) for no reason
  • The issue with Buzlok and the Tenet Diplos's homing shots being almost incapable of hitting some enemies because they orbit endlessly til they time out.

There is a plethora of things that need to be acknowledged, if not at the very least told "Yes we're fixing it".
Talk to us. Let us know. Be the devs that let us fall in love with your creation, because as of late it just makes many of us angry about what you've become.

A point in your favor: DE has beta testers, players who volunteer to beta test for them and DE doesn't take advantage of it. Instead deciding to release content without beta testing and then going all "surprised Pikachu face" when we don't like the bugs and glitches. Ah well.

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

A point in your favor: DE has beta testers, players who volunteer to beta test for them and DE doesn't take advantage of it. Instead deciding to release content without beta testing and then going all "surprised Pikachu face" when we don't like the bugs and glitches. Ah well.

The explanation that I'm lookin for.

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31 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

rants like this only prove that you probably CANT handle mature responses from devs. Your post is counterproductive to what you actually want. 

I find it amazing how some players just happen to hit every game breaking bug in Warframe. Truth is- the game works for most of us. 

As I stated in an above post, I've spent multiple years simply reporting on the bugs and otherwise doing my part for the Community both within the game and on other platforms - eg, the Warframe Community Discord. I have every right to voice my frustration about this and it's not about the fact that "the game works for most of us", it's about knowing that the things they themselves request from us as players are at the very least acknowledged. I'm not looking for them to commend or reward the players for this, nothing of the sort. All I want is to see that they are aware, that they do know and that a fix will be implemented at some stage in the future because they have enough info to do so.

The fact I can articulate this and give reasons with evidence should have very clearly detailed the issue here, but you seem to have missed that. You're welcome to your opinion of my ability to handle mature responses, I'm welcome to my opinion that you are incorrect and misunderstanding the entire purpose of this thread. It's not just a way to vent, it's not just complaining, it's stating and backing up the fact that there is a huge disconnect between what DE as developers are asking from us and how much (or how little) they actually take away from it. The best examples of late are very clearly the Yareli buffs needing to be more than simple numerical tweaks (such as making Merulina hover closer to the ground so that you don't bonk your head on every single doorway, losing all momentum and feeling ever more clunky - just to name one issue that is obvious to anyone who plays her for more than five minutes, let alone the community opinion mirroring that) and the Corrupted Holokey debacle - in that the drop rates are the issue, not the amount; this was said ad infinitum as soon as the dev workshop came out and even still to this day, yet here we are with boosted amounts and the same core problem.

I said it before as PublikDomain stated in their post: "So yeah, I'd like more communication." sums up the core issue that I'm trying to highlight. 

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"DE doesn't listen", if anything its the exact opposite in them trying to listen to EVERYONE and getting pulled in a thousand different directions with a slight edge given based on who's yelling the loudest. You want bug fixes? I could point you to at least 4-5 others that want new content, others that want the faux illusion that is endgame. Not to mention it not being as simple as "hey DE this is bugged, fix plz" and a "gotcha" -bug fixed in 30mins-; instead being a matter of trying to fix said bug leading to more popping up that then need to be addressed as a result. Like I'm no programmer but I imagine there's been several times where they've tried to fix something to have it cascade, before having it ever hit public. Its not some simple thing of putting in time to fix bugs, there's an entire plethora of bts to it. Also currently they've been very open about The New War taking most of the focus, while I'm sure there's still some looking at bugs that's still where most of the focus is.

I s2g mmo players these days are so entitled/spoiled/ridiculous

Edited by CrimsonXX
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1 hour ago, iPathos said:

This is the entire root of the problem and at least half of the reason I made this thread. I've gone into detail about all the other aspects because as I stated before; it's reached a boiling/tipping point. 

The fact you consider that my point of view is baffling in and of itself. It's been said already on the previous page that they clearly do read these things, even if they don't publicly show it in the vast majority of cases - that doesn't detract from the other half-reason why I'm so adamant about there needing to be some form of change regarding at the very least acknowledgement. See my mention of the Trello board's near-inactivity - more frequent updates to this alone would satisfy my main concern and help assuage the doubts of many, anything more would be absolutely splendid. The idea of having something similar to Minecraft's Bug Tracker would be a stellar method of killing two birds with one stone - it lets the players know. If we don't know, it's left up to speculation. I can't help but think you haven't read even half of the clarifications I've made in this thread by your coming to that conclusion.

What @Tesseract7777 said above details several things that lie at the core of the problem - I'm not asking that they "stop being lazy and deal with the bugs faster", as much as the second half of that sentence would be nice if it was true. I'm saying the lack of presence and even partial transparency about these situations is hurting them in the long and short term. If they are worried that telling players "thanks for informing us, we may not be able to fix it quickly but we will work on fixing it" and then the fact of the fix not coming out fast causing player impatience, it's a thousand times worse when they say quite literally nothing and we're left to speculate. There are many, many times after updates they've told us that they're going to look at fixing bugs for a while - still we have many years-old bugs that have yet to even have their existence publicly acknowledged. 

Acknowledging every/most posts does nothing but waste time to stroke the egos of some forum posters. If feedback gets properly formatted and posted where it belongs then it gets to DE, the question is when they can get around to it. And yet they already do respond to some bug reports (there were about 10 in the last week + related comments on patch note posts) while there are many that get no comments yet do get fixed. Proving that they do read those forums even if they're not personally telling you every time they do.

At best it eases some posters who won't proceed to continue ranting about an issue. At worst it wastes time and makes the community more impatient as they'll take their acknowledgments as a promise that things will be fixed "soon" while simultaneously ignoring it and continuing to post/rant about issues. Even with an active public tracker it won't stop players from ignoring it and forming their own expectations. Saying too little might be worse for you but them saying too much can just as well make things worse with others.

They already are transparent. Clearly not as much as you expect but it's still more than most of the industry outside of the indie market. And again, yes, they do need a better system for addressing issues but acknowledging every bug post isn't going to help. Also given how the community reacts to things I can only imagine the reactions to seeing a public bug tracker with issues they are aware of but get ignored for months because it's pushed back by priority issues.

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10 minutes ago, trst said:

Acknowledging every/most posts does nothing but waste time to stroke the egos of some forum posters. If feedback gets properly formatted and posted where it belongs then it gets to DE, the question is when they can get around to it. And yet they already do respond to some bug reports (there were about 10 in the last week + related comments on patch note posts) while there are many that get no comments yet do get fixed. Proving that they do read those forums even if they're not personally telling you every time they do.

At best it eases some posters who won't proceed to continue ranting about an issue. At worst it wastes time and makes the community more impatient as they'll take their acknowledgments as a promise that things will be fixed "soon" while simultaneously ignoring it and continuing to post/rant about issues. Even with an active public tracker it won't stop players from ignoring it and forming their own expectations. Saying too little might be worse for you but them saying too much can just as well make things worse with others.

They already are transparent. Clearly not as much as you expect but it's still more than most of the industry outside of the indie market. And again, yes, they do need a better system for addressing issues but acknowledging every bug post isn't going to help. Also given how the community reacts to things I can only imagine the reactions to seeing a public bug tracker with issues they are aware of but get ignored for months because it's pushed back by priority issues.

This is an extreme way to stretch the truth, I would like to see more than the very visibly miniscule responses - I did not say they need to respond to every single post at any point, nor do I mean that. We have people very clearly going through at least some of the threads, culling duplicates or merging topics, some select few actually getting a response, but they're the exception to the rule. One simple thing they could do aside from the plethora of other suggestions already given by other users here? Add a tag or few that they can assign to threads stating things along the lines of "known", "investigating", "unable to reproduce/not enough info" and other potential status indicators. They wouldn't even have to openly reply to these threads, but it would quite clearly show if they know or not at the very least - something we don't have anywhere near enough of at this point in time. I again will highlight the fact that they have a system almost perfectly suited to this job; the Trello board. It just needs to not appear barren of updates or somehow integrate with the aforementioned tags, should they be implemented. It could be set up so that a bot posts the things to the Trello board once tags are applied, linking to the relevant forum thread as a result. There are plenty of ways that this system can be improved with little to no actual input being necessary after the fact, but while also vastly improving the perception of things.

20 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

"DE doesn't listen", if anything its the exact opposite in them trying to listen to EVERYONE and getting pulled in a thousand different directions with a slight edge given based on who's yelling the loudest. You want bug fixes? I could point you to at least 4-5 others that want new content, others that want the faux illusion that is endgame. Not to mention it not being as simple as "hey DE this is bugged, fix plz" and a "gotcha" -bug fixed in 30mins-; instead being a matter of trying to fix said bug leading to more popping up that then need to be addressed as a result. Like I'm no programmer but I imagine there's been several times where they've tried to fix something to have it cascade, before having it ever hit public. Its not some simple thing of putting in time to fix bugs, there's an entire plethora of bts to it. Also currently they've been very open about The New War taking most of the focus, while I'm sure there's still some looking at bugs that's still where most of the focus is.

I s2g mmo players these days are so entitled/spoiled/ridiculous

It's almost like I've helped administrate the Community Discord for several years and have come across this mindset ad infinitum. This is in a forum and it is being discussed - nothing about entitlement necessary. It's a frustrating reality that I wanted to both gather other opinions on and to highlight a known issue at the same time. DE asks for feedback, sure, we'll give em feedback. The part that ends up rubbing people the wrong way there is the perceived ignoring of said feedback, even when everyone is giving different statements to the same end. I've already said that I've spent years on-and-off just reporting bugs, rarely even choosing to give feedback towards the game and in which ways I think it could improve. You're conveniently excluding the fact that many (most, actually) of the bugs which are both 100% reproduceable, have detailed information and/or are extremely common aren't publicly acknowledged in any capacity, which ties back into what I said above to trst. As things are, yeah I can see it being a difficult or time-consuming slog through the pages and pages of player input - that is why I suggest minor changes like the tags to simplify the job for them. Categorization, even something along the lines of Reddit Flair to indicate status, bot-linking those things to the Trello board etc.

You're welcome to your opinion, I respectfully disagree and will continue to request that DE acknowledge this issue until something changes for the better - it's a form of feedback and even with my layman's understanding of the underlying technology/practices I can confidently say it would help player perception at the very least.

The playerbase is well familiar with the phrase "soon" meaning anything from next hotfix to a few years away, need I find the "Primed Soon" meme mod image with Steve's pursed lips centerstage? The problem with not having any indication is that we don't even know if it's seen, scrolled through, being worked on, understood, in need of more details, lacking in sample size, difficulty in reproduction; pick your poison.

Don't agree with my PoV on this? Cool, good for you, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

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I sympathise with posts like these, because who can't sympathise with feeling tired and frustrated, especially about a product that is also a source of joy, entertainment and from the sounds of it, one that you have tried to assist with in your own small way, contributed to with time and data. 

At the same time, I wish... how we use language and communicate ideas is important and reflected in the messages we send. Often individual Warframe fans, will attempt to speak on behalf of the Warframe community, with varying motives, results etc good faith, to attempt to give their personal opinion more weight, to try and weaponise their statements etc I think this particular thread is good faith, but it also doesn't necessarily reflect a lot of Warframe fans. 

Like just speaking for myself... a lot of the things accused of Warframe Devs don't parallel how I view the situation. Not only that, whilst I do see a lot of good feedback, and fan notes/feed back, I consider great, worth attention, and wish were implemented or considered or at least acknowledged... I usually see much more bad feedback, venting, ranting, poorly structured criticism, criticisms with no basis, highly specific personal preference disguised under the guise of criticism, and just a lot of noise. Also to be clear, despite what it might sound like, with the latter, there can be value with all of those types of feedback, because they can contain elements of truth, or be symptomatic of some issue somewhere that could need to be addressed, and having developers that know this and can sift through it to avoid the noise to find such value is a good thing... such processes aren't easy, quick or hassle free. This is what I think a lot of people underestimate. 

Personally, if people are working away at fixing issues, I don't really mind if they aren't as active in informing us. Then again I already consider DE relatively good at addressing fans concerns. Thats not to say I don't think other peoples personal stance isn't valid, but when people say things like "please please respond, its not a good look, it makes us frustrated" etc... I am not frustrated, I don't think its a bad look, also I do think they respond, just evidently not as much as some wish they did. 

So different perspectives and that is fine, but then what of our ability to take other peoples perspectives into account? Like this might not be accurate, but there is probably someone working on the game who is aware of certain bugs, and if they happen to see a fan talking about them, being like "I know I know... but in order to fix that, this person needs to be here, they need to do this, this other person needs to approve, then we need this persons help, then we need to actually get a third party to approve, but also... this other issue is more pressing." like... do we think that people working on the game, don't experience frustration, tiredness, fatigue, annoyance? Except their outlets to vent are much more limited. Most of us should be able to relate here if we have ever been in a position where we have more technical knowledge than others, and those others wonder why something isn't done faster/better. 

I do not want to diminish any fans time, efforts and consideration into giving feedback to improve something they enjoy, something I enjoy and something I also benefit from as well. I know its cliche to say, but ultimately Warframe is "just a game" and since it is cliche to say, I will expand on what I mean. When people start talking or inferring about how depressing/sad the situation is, as far as lack of acknowledgement and notice, that concerns me. I think that person might be way too invested in this. Like yeah, as a fan if you spend that much time, energy and thought to try report bugs/issues, and acknowledgment isn't happening as much as you would like... yeah, that would be sad/tiring and frustrating... but in my mind, thats not a sign that the developers/workers should be more prompt and frequent with communication. Its a sign that person should take a break from the game, and ease up. I don't want people who work on the game to feel 'Crunch' I definitely don't want fans who aren't getting paid to feel its effects either. 

I like Warframe as it currently is, I am happy for improvements/fixes. If I were ever unhappy with the rate of progress with fixes etc I could see the value of trying to make noise about it. At some point if it started negatively affecting me, to the extent some people talk about, would be healthier to take a break or leave the game for undisclosed period of time. 

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3 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, boy is it frustrating to have an issue you're passionate about continue to go unresolved. I had to spam every DE update and hotfix post for months just to get an acknowledgement from DE about Khora's Whipclaw LoS being a buggy mess. Just the basic acknowledgement that they understood that it was a problem was all I needed to stop, and eventually it did get addressed, but I feel like that was only because I made myself as annoying as possible and wouldn't shut up about it. If I hadn't said anything she'd still have a half-broken ability. So yeah, I'd like more communication.

It's been brought up before how DE only acknowledges things when the embers become a conflagration.

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

It's been brought up before how DE only acknowledges things when the embers become a conflagration.

Unfortunately, that's indeed how it feels. It feels like they only notice or respond to a problem if they themselves stumble across it, like if something happens to them on stream or if a content creator they know and watch or communicate with brings it up. Individual reports from individual players here on the forums seem to very rarely make it to the development team in one piece. Maybe they actually do take note of everything that's posted, but if they do then they certainly aren't making it known.

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vor 28 Minuten schrieb PublikDomain:

like if something happens to them on stream or if a content creator they know and watch or communicate with brings it up.

the first thing happend so mutch i mostly remeber the half invisble moas at the fortuna streams that could later be found in the game like that?

and for the second thing CCs feel more that they risk everything if the mention anything bad at least to the outside for the official one that is

so it seems even the communication inside DE is not that good either

Edited by Keiyadan
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They've never said a word about the state of deimos arcanes. I know usage stats on them are bad, they are a rotting piece of content in warframe. I think by not acknowledging there's a problem DE feels they are absolved from addressing it. This is one specific example but I'm sure many more can be cited fairly easily. it's an unsettling pattern that's become very recognizable to me over the years. Burying their head in the sand and repeating mistakes over and over has worked for them so far.

Also, DE has demonstrated far more community engagement in the past. I can't prove this, it's just my personal feelings and perspective, as flawed as it may be.

Edited by Skaleek
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1 minute ago, Skaleek said:

They've never said a word about the state of deimos arcanes. I know usage stats on them are bad, they are a rotting piece of content in warframe. I think by not acknowledging there's a problem DE feels they are absolved from addressing it. This is one specific example but I'm sure many more can be drawn.

None of the players care about the deimos arcanes. There’s a lot of things the player base doesn’t care about; I’ve come across walls that were missing the ability to wall-hop off of. Would have been nice in a few fights to be able to do so, and it’s a flat wall with no particular reason why we can’t hop off of it aside from oversight. No-one wallhops though, so it doesn’t get noticed or is a high priority.

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4 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

None of the players care about the deimos arcanes.

Kinda missed the point. I'm sure if we sat down and talked about every system or piece of content that fell to the wayside you'd eventually find something you cared about that DE decided to ignore. The player base was very vocal about the deimos arcanes before and after they launched and DE did absolutely nothing. No communication. No acknowledgement of universal feedback.

Edited by Skaleek
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12 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Kinda missed the point. I'm sure if we sat down and talked about every system or piece of content that fell to the wayside you'd eventually find something you cared about that DE decided to ignore.

Wall hop walls. But I would take back my original claim that no-one cares; I’m guessing you care somewhat, and I want to use them (they look weird and interesting) so I care in a way as well. I can’t speak to how they work though since I’m still playing towards them and just need to gild my explodey secondary to slot some in.

Your point though was something about how DE absolves themselves of responsibility when they don’t respond, right? I question the validity of the logic when I know that there are things that most of the player base can’t be bothered to hear about

 

12 hours ago, Skaleek said:

The player base was very vocal about the deimos arcanes before and after they launched and DE did absolutely nothing. No communication. No acknowledgement of universal feedback.

Noticed this edit after posting. What was the feedback on deimos arcanes? They look strange. Designed in a certain way

 

12 hours ago, Skaleek said:

The player base was very vocal about the deimos arcanes before and after they launched and DE did absolutely nothing. No communication. No acknowledgement of universal feedback.

Was it something about how they don’t compare to the most effective farming tools available, Skaleek? That they’re weird and fiddly and… useless?

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
typo
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33 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Your point though was something about how DE absolves themselves of responsibility when they don’t respond, right? I question the validity of the logic when I know that there are things that most of the player base can’t be bothered to hear about

I see what you're saying, but if you recall there was a thread of like... 20+ pages of feedback saying these arcanes were dead on arrival. Anyways, its what my mind thinks of when i read this thread. I think its a pertinent example. Im not saying its a brick wall between DE and the playerbase, and maybe its true that not enough people cared. It sometimes feels like the feedback threads are almost set up to herd posts and control the forums rather than actually gather feedback. (Ie the feedback threads that existed when they first came out/were announced).

If it was important enough to have a feedback thread started by DE about it, it almost gives the players false hope that the feedback means anything at all, because their actions show that it really didnt matter that everyone was saying the same thing to them.

Thanks for noticing my edit i am notorious for adding way too much in my edits when i should just post again.

Edited by Skaleek
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1 minute ago, Skaleek said:

I see what you're saying, but if you recall there was a thread of like... 20+ pages of feedback saying these arcanes were dead on arrival. Anyways, its what my mind thinks of when i read this thread. I think its a pertinent example. Im not saying its a brick wall between DE and the playerbase. It just sometimes feels that way in certain scenarios. (Ie the arcanes and the feedback threads that existed when they first came out/were announced).

Thanks for noticing my edit i am notorious for adding way too much in my edits when i should just post again.

I get the sentiment of how it can feel being ignored, particularly when part of a loud voice that still seems unheard. I have a different perspective, but it’s not difficult to see it from yours

About the edit; yeah, I’m the same, haha. I try to keep edits in the early part of the posting process to lessen the chance of it being missed, but yeah. Weighing between posting again and editing, and editing just seems sleeker.

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43 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

The player base was very vocal about the deimos arcanes before and after they launched and DE did absolutely nothing. No communication. No acknowledgement of universal feedback.

They did not do "absolutely nothing". The aoe used to be tied to the ragdolled corpse and the values were far lower and those changes were made out of the test server feedback.

The only thing they didn't listen to was players saying the entire concept needed to be remade. But trying to make them work rather than remaking them entirely is not "absolutely nothing" even if they remained useless.

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I’m so tired of explaining this to every dude in every gaming community.

 

You are one person. Even if we got someone else the exact same age, height, weight, ethnicity etc of you, they would have a different opinion than you. If we rounded up 1000 people exactly like you, we would have 1000 different opinions.

 

So, how does DE, who are 250 people, respond to the feedback of millions of players? Tens of thousands a day? Like, logistically, how would they do that?

More over, why would they do that? Half the warframe accounts in existence belong to players without any design experience, probably without even finishing Highshcool.

DE are professional game designers, for the large part they don’t need to hear what the Everyman has to say about their game, and they care a lot more than any other developer anyway.

DE can’t make the warframe that you want because that’s the warframe someone else doesn’t want.

and tbh, THANK GOD, because for years people have been sulking about how both Saryn, Mesa, Bramma etc all need to be nerfed/ removed/ deleted. If DE was beholden to listening to all feedback, two of my mains wouldn’t exist at all.

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  • iPathos changed the title to DE, more communication would be greatly appreciated

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