Next Update Post-Angels of the Zariman

[DreisterDino]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Flying_Scorpion:

I like the idea of void sling, especially being able to control the distance with which I travel out to. With the recent change, void sling is so fast, it feels like I only have 2 options: short sling, and long sling. In-between happens so fast I'm not sure if I have the reaction time to get a medium sling. I also support strafe-sling and backwards-sling.

+1

 

I was getting used to Sling and started to enjoy it, and with some tweaks it could have become great. But this is a step backwards imo because it neglects the identity of Void Sling which now tries to be more like Dash - while i never agreed with the whole "sling is just dash but slower" sentiment, this change actually made sling worse to use and if this is the approach they will follow from now on  - then i might agree that sling will end up being "just dash but slower".

 

I would have prefered it if instead of just listening to the "make it faster" crowd, DE would have tried to flesh out the identity of Void Sling and improve on that first. So:

 

• add aimglide/hover
• make the indicator more visible
• increase precision (people reported ending up higher than they aimed etc)
• reduce collision with objects (improving indoor traversal)
• add a quick backwards sling
• (maybe remove the auto-release when at full range for more control)

 

Or in general: remove the bugs and things which made it feel clunky and offer a real benefit for using Voidsling compared to Voiddash, for example better indoor-movement. It was supposed to be more controllable, but due to all the small bugs and things which made it weird to use, people didnt see a real improvement and of course they will say "its just worse and slower now". I am convinced that many people who dont like Sling so far and want Dash back would have a different opinion if Sling would have delivered what it promised. And after all that, sure you can maybe add speed and range aswell if its still way too slow. But at this point, it didnt make a lot of sense to add speed to the Sling. I mean, its supposed to be more controllable and we are supposed to aim - but now i dont really have time to aim anymore.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

6 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Please don't force us to use our mod slots, arcane slots, etc as bandaid fixes for what should be base functionality. That and adding grind (21 arcanes per) to fix what you yourselves admit are outstanding issues with the game.

DE will be like:

[Magnus]

You keep trying to make Sling work. But it doesn't.

It's slower.

It's clunkier.

It requires charging.

It's less accurate.

It gets caught on far more things.

The little light where it points you doesn't help anything.

You can't buffer the next sling.

You can't use Sling again immediately which adds more to how slow it is.

Now you want to add slinging to the side and backwards?

And all of this because no one at DE thought to make Dash even MORE precise by simply adding an aim glide. This is not the hill to die on, give players their better movement back.

 

[(PSN)Dragondamo]

1. I love the Overguard concept, and I think you guys are on the right path with it. In helping newer players with content I'd say the main challenges especially come from lower level missions being a lot harder, so perhaps overguard can be tweaked there. Still, even for missions where I am using CC like Lull, it means I have to adapt strategy to either take out the Eximus first completely, OR strip Overguard and then Lull. I like that. 

2. Personally I prefer Void Sling besides the directional movement/strafing and actually enjoy trying to do some missions as the operator entirely for a little spice. One idea though would have been for Operator to have Dash and [spoiler] to have Sling. I can see that possibly causing issues with tied abilities however, so do what you think is best.

3. I love the idea of another amp arcane slot, and am already thinking of possible combos I'd like to try. 

4. Watching so many streams I see the same questions again and again from people like "crossplay when" and "werewolf frame when" and I've heard you guys address these questions so often, but perhaps there needs to be an Update FAQ (apologies of already one) where questions asked about crossplay, operator abilities, new frames, new content etc can be addressed. That way there's a blanket response and will hopefully stop all of the "DE are ignoring us" speech when really you've just answered the question so many times in other, less accessible mediums. 

5. Destiny has had to remove whole sections of content - planets and campaigns - to make the game usable. And they still have bugs and exploits every update. You keep on expanding this wonderful universe and adding more and more content and variety and I love you for it. You can't always account for every possible bug until it goes live and there is actual interaction with other content, but i appreciate how responsive you are in hotfixing these issues. 

6. One final suggestion related loosely to point 2 would be to make the two Tenno different in some ways, not just aesthetically. The New War gameplay really mixed things up with different abilities, and I think that perhaps if they were given 3rd and 4th abilities that are unique to them (not tied to focus like 1st and 2nd) it would give a real option to who you use in Post New War content. 

 

Keep up the great work DE!

[ShogunGunshow]

6 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Please don't force us to use our mod slots, arcane slots, etc as bandaid fixes for what should be base functionality. That and adding grind (21 arcanes per) to fix what you yourselves admit are outstanding issues with the game.

But that's the DE way, tho. 😄

[ABlindGuyPlays]

2 hours ago, Quantum_Blur said:

This would be a great time to give some of the most rework-desperate frames some bonus interactions with overguard, i.e. make Valkyr's talons shred through it, make Hydroid's Tempest Barrage reduce it, etc. for other frames.  If you take this feedback but apply it to augment mods instead of base functionality, so help me, I will have more words to say.

that's actually brilliant. Oberon's carpet removing overgard while enemies are on it. His reckoning spam eating away at it.

It fits with the motifs of paladin. crack through an enemy's defenses.

But if nobody gets any overguard interactions other than valkyr I'd still say 'ok fair enough. her hwole gimmick is a heavy risk reward thing so give added incentive.'

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 hours ago, VhwatGoes said:

Then there is the health inequity. If shield gating became DR instead of straight invulnerability, we would actually consider frame health points once again, kind of like what some Crowd Control frames find themselves doing. If modded for the umbral set and redirection, they compare like this:

• Gyre for example has 3840 EHP, 34% of that being shields.
• Caliban ties with Hydroid Prime, roughly setting the median EHP value of 5666. This is just above Rhino Prime! Good thing he's got that iron skin.
• Lavos, a frame I love, gets 14121 EHP.
• Gara Prime gets 46493 EHP. DR amirite?

The Adaptation mod, since it requires you to get hit before providing health, ends up only working on frames with already insane health pools, because the rest can't take the hits to build the resistance in the first place. The frames with damage reduction are FAR above anything else, even Yareli with Merulina despite some complaints on her survival (due to her cursedly high shields making her less survivable).

Okay, I'd be remiss not to point out Mesa being misleadingly low on that chart.

Trinity's only a 16x multiplier (75% of which is also contingent - Link does need to be latched onto something after all). Mesa pushes a button and gets 20x, which I believe puts base at ~61200 EHP and Prime at a little over 75000 EHP under the modding conditions stated.

Sure, maybe she's melee vulnerable, but it's also Mesa, so good luck with that.

Damage resistance indeed.

[(PSN)killer115550]

Thanks for all the fixes, DE.

Void sling is much easier to utilize in various missions now, as it provides a level of control that was completely lacking with dash. After some muscle memory adaptation on my part I prefer void sling overall. 

This has been one of the better updates for warframe in recent memory.

[DhatZ]

Can't find a better place to post this, as this is neither bug or update reaction.

Complete list of solutions to all the problems with eximus rework:

1. First off replace CC block with the sentient cc resistance (4x shorter and adapting), this will turn frames relying on cc for survival from unusable to just harder to use.
2. Cap number of same type eximus aoe effect existing at a time to avoid literal floor is lava all the time in dens eximus situations. 
3. Mercy needs to take the combined of their all health types including OG into account. Currently being blocked by OG makes the mercy even lower and more useless percentage of EHP than when parazon released.
4. the overguard needs to be ignored for stealth damage, this will make actual stealth strats worth using sometimes and not kill the whole run by a singe eximus' existence.
5. make the OG work like nullifier bubble for amps but faster TTK.
6. Or 5-15x the vulnerability to void damage to have any chance to compete with decent weapons for OG strip time
7. Stop treating it as another health. It should be a separate layer that takes on the damage dealt with neutral resist except void.
8. No damage reduction or armor mechanics on overguard, just pure sponge because double dip EHP multiplication is just too much.
9. If that becomes balance issue, base the OG health on the armored or damage reduced EHP of the base unit.
10. For units with destructible parts and variable damage reduction, they need to be destructible regardless of OG or straights up not apply the DR to it at all. I.E. nox.
11. Arson eximus when flying needs to have a separate heatwave FX because it looks out of place and doesn't match the collision. But why are ospreys allowed to be arson? I found one few days ago in corpus eximus jupiter sortie
12. Revert or completely nerf the toxin and heat damage form eximus attacks. Toxin eximus is currently completely unfairly op
13. Rebalance or revert the eximus ability damage to not ruin objectives defense gamemodes playabilty
14. Arson heatwave needs to have proper doppler and volume audio scaling based on proximity, to be dodgeable from behind/sides
15. All lifesteal needs to work on OG

 

[CrowWtr]

Give back the crowd control on eximus.

[Sprain]

I haven't thought about this too deeply, but as a knee-jerk reaction while on lunch break I'll just post my thoughts on how we can find the middle ground on Void Sling/Dash:

• Revert it partially so (Void Mode + Quick Tap Jump) results in the old (near) instantaneous animation like Void Dash, but make it have a smaller "Void Dash" AoE, maybe extending to only about 0.75m around the operator, and does not have additional effects outside of doing damage to whatever Sling/Dash will be used for (Zariman Orbs and whatever else)
  • Fast, trades power for speed, is much less precise in terms of hitting things: can be used mainly for traversal. For skilled players, this rewards them for already being precise, and doesn't act as an unnecessary "speedbump".
• Void Sling is still activated with (Void Mode + Hold Jump), which allows more precise movement and with a bigger "Void Dash" AoE, maybe like 2-3m around. Can also tag on additional effects such as stunning enemies and opening them to finishers, making them for susceptible to Void, etc.
  • This gives players a more precise and powerful Void Sling to use for combat and trades speed for power, this is where your focus school and arcanes would shine the brightest.

This way, there's more flexibility towards these sling interactions and players can choose what they're comfortable with, as well as adapt to the situation.

Personally, directional Void Sling sounds like it doesn't really have any application in particular at the moment, so I feel like it shouldn't so much be directional, but something else entirely, like a spring&dive/cartwheel/super roll/etc that has entirely different use cases in handling encounters.
For example, an additional ability I think Operators should have maybe is a Void Hover (or Parachute lmao) would have some use in slowing the Operator's falls similar to aim gliding, which is another way to give players more control over their Operators movements.

Anyways hope this is at least something to think about

[Nalfy]

Sorry but this post is approx 10 days late, and as you say yourself gives us little to go on

Please stop digging the void sling hole, sideways movement makes it the same as void dash, please just give back void dash while you tweak sling if you are really so commited to forcing the change.

Please dont make us grind what will be mandatory arcanes to fix the overshield issue nobody asked for.

Please remove the transference delay, you claimed to want the transfer to be more seamless then made it clunky

Please consider what eximus changes do in other aspects of the game, also look at mobile def objective health as eximus can oneshot them from across the room

Please will you just address the fact that overshields have caused CC based frames to no longer be viable at endgame, for all the tweaks this has been totally ignored and causes huge amounts of players time investment to be wasted.

Was this update put through the test cluster? If so how did so many game breaking bugs make it into a release? isnt the point of the test cluster to prevent leaving the game totally broken all weekend?

Lots of this feedback was already given when you previewed these changes, it was all ignored and now look where we are.

 

[Kane_Legion]

I kind of wish you could delete your own comments

[ABlindGuyPlays]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)killer115550 said:

Thanks for all the fixes, DE.

Void sling is much easier to utilize in various missions now, as it provides a level of control that was completely lacking with dash. After some muscle memory adaptation on my part I prefer void sling overall. 

This has been one of the better updates for warframe in recent memory.

Combine this new sling with the new arcane that gives energy for cancelign void sling and while it is a bit of a headache ot use on the move? it does a grand job of solving energy problems.

[mikakor]

2 hours ago, FSK41 said:

*I hate living too easy, and hate dying too easy. I want health to be relevant. Video games are supposed to offer challenges. Is that too much to ask?* It does now rejoice. 

 

And that's the problem. some video games arne't MEANT to be challenging, and warframe just so happens to be such a game. it's not a challenging game nor will it ever be. deal with it... the way the game is made, created, doesn't allow for a "challenge" to flourish. 

[Cryssoberyl]

Putting bandaids on the overguard situation will do NOTHING to help new players for whom the eximus changes have been terrible, nor will it resolve the problem of squishy CC-dependent frames being farmed by high level/Steel Path eximus before you can even spot them. You made a bad decision in adding it to the game, show that you have the wisdom to own up to that by removing it from the game, which is the only appropriate response to such a horrendous mechanic.

[-AncientWarrior-]

7 hours ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

With more gameplay-relevant customisations coming to operators, is there a chance of having operator loadout slots? Not just for operator appearance, but for the Amp/arcane setup.

Yes been asking for this since the operator was released.. It's better now we have 2 loadouts (Drifter and Operator) but actually 3 loadout configs on each Op like WF's is required..

Actually where the game sits right now is ok .. a few more bugs to kill but really I like the Overguard, not hard to remove then everything kills them like normal.. so not a real biggy.

For the rest of whats been said here by DE, well I'll wait and see it before getting ANY excitement level as we have all heard this so many times before over the years, but so far never seen it get done.. But hears hoping DE have finally listened ..   

[Sevek7]

7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

Huh, why? Overguard gets obliterated by the same damage abilities and AOE that were already super-meta. Overguard (as of today) just reinforces that meta and pushes all other playstyles like crowd control and precision weapons to the bottom of the bucket. If anything it should have been the opposite (severely reduce AOE and ability damage to encourage non-meta playstyles like crowd control and precision weapons).

I can't speak for everyone, but I really can't see myself slotting operator arcanes to do something that AOE and ability spam are already accomplishing, especially since the AOE and ability spam are already accomplishing virtually everything else the game has to offer too.

[zenabiz]

Absolutely do not tie overguard to arcanes. It was promised that operators would be useful against it. Don't make us farm arcanes to solve a problem that didn't need to be created.
Overguard is an interesting idea very badly implemented. Remove it, or make it interesting. Don't do the warframe thing of creating bandages for bad design. Go back and fix it properly.

[-AG-Minerva]

hace 7 horas, [DE]Megan dijo:

Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

Just remove it already instead of giving us bandages to cope with a terrible game design

[(XBOX)The Reject7946]

Just tossing this out there for consideration of things to 'smooth over' in the coming update:
Playing as Ivara, the energy drain eximus, the health/leech eximus, and the toxic/venomous eximus target the Warframe with silenced weapons while Prowl is active and while in the aoe of Cloaking Arrow. I would hope that this doesn't apply to Loki, Ash, or Arcane Trickery.
Trinity takes toxic damage during the invulnerability phase of Blessing.

On another note:
Warframes that have more health and armor (Inaros, Atlas, Valkyr, Nezha/Warding Halo, Rhino/Iron Skin, Wukong, Grendel, etc.) are left with even greater appeal over Warframes that do not, especially on the Steel Path, largely due to the impact of the new eximus functions against crowd control, more energy drain, and the amount of damage that is dealt by the electric eximus, the venomous/toxic eximus, and the blitz eximus units to the more 'squishy' and heavily CC dependent Warframes.
My usage stats would reveal that I already favored the use of such 'tanky' Warframes over the 'squishy' ones, especially on Steel Path, and that prior to the update, I had made more of an effort to use those outside of the 'tank class' of Warframes over the last year of my 6 years of playing. This recent update has made the tanks more fun, it ups the ante for the frames that felt like there wasn't much to pose a challenge against. However, it has impacted the appeal of the other frames, for me, negatively.
Oh, and maybe adjust the Thrax and Angel hitpoint values a bit for the Steel Path. One amp, with the 2 minute timer applied to not killing an enemy causing automatic mission failure, with the Angel at the end of the objective on the Steel Path Oro Works was kind of a kill-joy.
Just tossing that out there for feedback considerations.

[Triezieme]

even using the Operator to clear overguard isn't going to fix it. much less trying to use arcanes. The situation as it stands is twofold

Overguard is meaningless to people with the resources or inclination to optimise their build because they just power through it with DPS. People who are off the meta however, either because they want to experiment, or have not farmed enough yet, have much more trouble.

similarly, regardless of how much of a challenge overguard represents, enemies with it are invariably an annoying distraction simply because they don't respond in predictable ways to any abilities, which is compounded by the fact that overguard enemies can and will use dramatic and annoying abilities of their own. While it certainly represents a significantly larger challenge than basic enemies, they appear at random, often in places where increased challenge is unwanted and profoundly unfun, derailing any tactics you try to use.

With this in mind trying to use arcanes as a way to combat overguard is simply further exaggerating the negative impact of it, by forcing players to deviate further from their preferred tactics at random intervals, as well as attempting to optimize something that may well not suit their personal playstyle just to avoid being shut down.

I withhold judgement until the final product is revealed, but this reads like a complete misunderstanding of why overguard is problematic, which seems liable to make it vastly worse.

[xMarvin732]

8 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally we’re reviewing the code to resolve some Transference latency issues and considering other tweaks to Operators. 

Awesome :) cant wait ^_^
Kind of like Void Sling better compared to initial release.

[Kane_Legion]

I think they should remove overguard from the main starchart & only put it on high level Eximus enemies in Kuva Fortress steel path, steel path on the main system, The Zariman, The Zariman steel path, The Void steel path, Arbitration & open world missions in steel path cause thoughs are suppose to be harder missions.

then make the names Different put a star or name it different
Example: Eximus
Example steel path: Evolved Eximus

Then only put OverGuard on the Evolved Eximus Enemies.

[Brasten]

8 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard

No. Flat no.

Overguard needs to be fix at its fundamentals. The implementation did not work, and did not archive design objectives. While you are examining the problems I would encourage you to play test on two aspects.

1) Pre-Second Dream (pre-Void/Amp) Overguard scaling needs to addressed. I recommend using a Mod Capacity 30 limited Warframe & Weapon loadout, MR 5 weapons.

I have identified Keeler/Saturn as a particular showcase nexus for Overguard issues pre-Second Dream. The EHP scaling is sufficient to highlight the different between having no Viral status effects, and having a high Status Viral weapon. Keeler also tends to spawn 4 Eximus units in Solo, which then tend to Stack on each other as the Grineer AI clusters them. Making them particularly difficult to approach and deal with.

2) Post-Second Dream Amp damage fall-off

While it is tempting to band-aid Overguard with Arcanes, please do not. One stated design objective was to encourage the use of the Operator to help clear Overguard. Unfortunately the +50% weakness to Void Damage is insufficient to keep pace with Overguard EHP scaling.

Solution:

Give Amps (and Void Beam before The War Within) a Shattering Impact like stat, unique to Overguard. Each Amp part can be give its own "Overguard Shatter" value in keeping with intended TTK/DPS values of the part. Letting Amps attack the base Overguard value will keep them viable regardless of EHP scaling problems. It also reduced the need for a mandatory 325% Viral Status stack, when dealing with Overguard.

With the change in Overguard base values, also change the scaling curve to reduce the EHP at levels 30 and lower. Aim for an EHP value 1/3rd to 1/4th current values. In keeping with TTK of having stacked viral. This will reduce the mandatory need for Viral Status Pre-Second Dream among new players.

Also please examine the damage scaling of Arson Eximus at these levels (30 and lower), the initial blast can strip shields and leave the player open to direct health damage from the Heat DoT. A DoT that can be lethal without a counter play (you can't really roll to put out the Heat DoT). It can functionally be a slowly painful one-shot, which feels really bad. Please adjust the VFX of the Arson blast to be a cylinder with a gap between floor and waist height, this will better communicate that the counter play is roll under/through the fire wave. Currently players are trained by Shockwave Moas and other enemy "stomp" VFX to jump over those waves. Arson Eximus looks like a ground wave, when it's really a full Sphere of effect. The trained reaction to jump over ground rings means you eat the full damage, and get knocked down out of the air.