Noticed pity systems were added to various farms since I last played, is it time to add a pity system to rerolling rivens?

[Goldenrice]

Tauforged, voruna, some other warframes, and soon nechramechs.

 

Can we talk about adding a pity system to rerolling rivens or nah?

[Pakaku]

Pity systems are just excuses to keep designing the game poorly, but on the other hand, it's still better than nothing.

Plus anything to make getting rivens easier will just upset the godroll whales, and I'm always in favour of that

[Merrcenary]

no?

[(XBOX)Shodian]

22 minutes ago, Goldenrice said:

nah

Nah

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I mean maybe? Though I think there are considerable differences between a player having bad luck when grinding for a new update and the frustration and resentment they can feel, and why the game would want to alleviate that, and players trying to get the perfect Riven. Not that I don't sympathise with the frustrations that can come with Riven rolling, or am inherently against Rivens getting a pity system... Just I think one is more important and a priority for more of the player base overall.

[gamingchair1121]

yeah

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

I think pity systems only really work well with binary outcomes.  Either you got object A (which is the only item) this attempt, or you didn't.  In the case of cycling a riven, not only are there many options, they're picked in groups of 2 to 4.  Just what conditions should the pity system be based on?  Does this value increase your pity?  Decrease it?  What does pity affect?  It's not like Tauforged where you either got a Tauforged, or you didn't, and Tauforged is objectively better in every single way.  So of course every time you don't get one the odds of getting one next time go up.

Edited September 28, 2023 by (PSN)Lollybomb

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2023-09-28 at 12:45 PM, Pakaku said:

Pity systems are just excuses to keep designing the game poorly, but on the other hand, it's still better than nothing.

I suppose that's one way to frame it, but I'd say that when a pity system is added the design changes, because the pity system is now one aspect of the design.  And the result is at the very least a better design, if not simply a good one.  Generally speaking, I think pity systems are a great idea because they create an upper-limit for any farm, and that's great for both the health of the game and its players.

Edited October 3, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar
fixed typo

[trst]

I doubt they ever would since one of the main points of Rivens existing was to create an "endless" grind so players always have something to do.

A pity system, however that would even work, would just put a defined end point onto each Riven and thus make the system completable.

 

Although what I could see them eventually adding is some way to narrow what a Riven will be unveiled into. As the odds of getting any specific one only goes down with the current system and that doesn't affect the endless kuva/reroll grind loop.

[RichardKam]

Pity system is to turn a randomized event into a deterministic event.

How do you define a determined end-point of a riven? How do you know what people were looking for when rolling a riven?

[Skoomaseller]

9 hours ago, gamingchair1121 said:

yeah

just one more roll bro it will be different bro

Edited September 29, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[Skoomaseller]

it should but imo rivens need more than just pity

 

even if I'm not looking for an acricron/godroll, let's say i want utility. there is still no guarantee that I will get the stats i desire.

 

"so work with what you have!!" ok, let me just work with a -dmg, -multishot, -cc, -cd, -sc, -status duration, +recoil (on high recoil weapon) riven.

[NecroPed]

I absolutely think we should have some kind of pity and I think anyone who disagrees completely likely just wants to make big plat off rivens and does not care about whether the system is healthy or fair. 

 

I think it should be done in the form of stat locking (the stat type not the value).

I think something like every 25 rolls giving you the choice to lock in one of the 4 stats and keep rerolling without losing it would be great, once you hit 100 rolls it would have all 4 stats being able to be locked in and you would just need to keep rolling until you have all 4 desired stat types to lock it in. Once all 4 are locked rolling should only change the stat value. Which keeps reason to roll even after getting desired stat types, without completely risking your stat types in order to get the value spread that you want. I'd even say an increased kuva cost for rolling per amount of locked stats is justified. 

 

Though I think it's less necessary, I'd also like something to cater a riven to a particular weapon; even if it makes the riven untradable (temporary preferably but I'd even deal with it being permanent) to avoid exploiting the system to always get the rivens for new weapons and sell them for big plat day 1. And even if its handed out in even more limited amounts than umbra forma is.  

[NecroPed]

2 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Pity system is to turn a randomized event into a deterministic event.

How do you define a determined end-point of a riven? How do you know what people were looking for when rolling a riven?

4 stat types that you want. The pity should be for locking in specific stat types in my opinion, not stat values, so the determined end point is always on the user of the riven so doesn't need a 'blanket end point' for all. 

[Tiltskillet]

11 hours ago, Goldenrice said:

Can we talk about adding a pity system to rerolling rivens or nah?

Trading is the pity system. 

 

[NecroPed]

7 hours ago, trst said:

I doubt they ever would since one of the main points of Rivens existing was to create an "endless" grind so players always have something to do.

A pity system, however that would even work, would just put a defined end point onto each Riven and thus make the system completable.

Not necessarily. The end point from the pity can be stat types not stat values, so rolling with 4 pitied stat types would roll the values of each. Allowing you to better cater your riven from the point you get your desired stat types. Lets just say you have a riven with crit chance, crit damage, damage and a negative, the spread of the stat values can change how valuable that riven is, even with 4 desired stat types. Higher crit chance might be preferred in some cases because it knocks you from under 100% to over 100% or lower crit chance might be preffered if the extra crit is not needed to get above 100% and you would rather be increasing the crit damage.

Edited September 29, 2023 by NecroPed

[NecroPed]

9 hours ago, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

I think pity systems only really work well with binary outcomes.  Either you got object A (which is the only item) this attempt, or you didn't.  In the case of cycling a riven, not only are there many options, they're picked in groups of 2 to 4.  Just what conditions should the pity system be based on?  Does this value increase your pity?  Decrease it?  What does pity affect?  

I think if you look at the stat types being locked in or not as binary and the amount of rolls being the trigger it could work, so for example something like 25 rolls equals 1 stat type you can lock in when rolling, at 100 you have up to 4 that you can lock in. From 100 onwards you're still rolling until you get the stat type you want to lock in, and when you have 4 stats locked in are rolling for stat values only, to get your desired spread of those stats. 

[fo3nixz]

Nah. But maybe Stat locking? Then make the riven untradeable and only one stat can be locked.

[RobWasHere]

Just borrow riven "crafting" system from Path of Exile already

[TARINunit9]

14 hours ago, Goldenrice said:

Can we talk about adding a pity system to rerolling rivens or nah?

Steve and Scott know exactly why you want this, they've said in interviews that new DE hires have asked them about adding new systems (usually stat-locking) to Rivens. Said new hires get told "no" every time

[CephalonCarnage]

They already have added a pity system to rivens though - there are more and more places to buy kuva from, so you can roll and roll and roll for far longer than before.

What more do you want? (silly question, I know what you want - you want perfect godroll for S tier weapons)

[(PSN)robotwars7]

not gonna happen. all the addicts and traders have made Rivens an economy all its own, far too lucrative for DE to bother fixing in a way that might result in less rolls, and therefore less money.

[Merrcenary]

9 часов назад, RichardKam сказал:

Pity system is to turn a randomized event into a deterministic event.

How do you define a determined end-point of a riven? How do you know what people were looking for when rolling a riven?

cc cd ms -z

[Dunkelheit]

Like Archon Shards and Tauforged Shards, Rivens are one of those carrots to dangle from highly active players who have everything. Rivens are not needed for anything, so this works out great. They give A LOT to do for players, they can be extremely valuable.

They are not going to take this away  for a "pity" system however that would work without a defined endpoint. Because it would devalue the whole system and prevent a lot of time invest.

I wish they would pin this:

Forma, Archon Shards, Tauforged Shareds, Reactors and Catalysts won't be changed. And there are certain cosmetics which will never be available in the game without paying hard earned real-life currency.

Reasons:

Player need to have something to do in the game.

Something needs to pay the bills for DE.

[trst]

10 hours ago, NecroPed said:

Not necessarily. The end point from the pity can be stat types not stat values, so rolling with 4 pitied stat types would roll the values of each. Allowing you to better cater your riven from the point you get your desired stat types. Lets just say you have a riven with crit chance, crit damage, damage and a negative, the spread of the stat values can change how valuable that riven is, even with 4 desired stat types. Higher crit chance might be preferred in some cases because it knocks you from under 100% to over 100% or lower crit chance might be preffered if the extra crit is not needed to get above 100% and you would rather be increasing the crit damage.

You've still created a defined end point with a system that lets you choose your four desired stats. Since nobody but the most addicted Riven grinders even consider the stat rolls you'd have 99% of players entirely done with a Riven the moment they hit 3 locks. And even for the min maxers there isn't even that much variance between stat rolls anyways plus most of them would likely just roll until their most valued stat hit a max roll.

Also your suggestion of one lock per 25 rerolls is laughably small with how easy it is to get Kuva.