Dante Unbound - Dev Workshop: General Quality of Life

[DTaina]

3 hours ago, KamuiHyuga said:

2) I know the QoL list isn't 100% exhaustive of all the updates, but can we get a thought spared for Frost and his poor Snow Globe?  Allies are still completely unable to fire from outside of the globe to anything inside of it, which can cause issues.  Things like Volt's shields and Gara's glass barrier do not have this issue, so having Frost's Snow Globe (and ally Frost Eximus Snow Globes for that matter) only allow allied projectiles to pass through seems horribly inconsistent and inconvenient.  Can this be added on the list for a potential future QoL change?

I've been saying this for years!  His snow globes can be such a detriment to the squad.  I've lost count of the number of times I've had squad members complaining about them even when I go out of my way to pop them.  Giving allies the ability to shoot through his snow globe from the outside would be a much-needed QoL update for poor Frost.  

Also, for a future upgrade, I'd love to be able to move the snow globe like the Eximus can.  

[ChossetteDivine]

Lots of good stuff, but I'm going to talk about the bad, like many of us.

The elephant in the room: Eclipse. Nerf? Okay, rending it useless? No. And guess what, it will be useless with those new stats. Since Eclipse and Roar have the same base, it will be Roar that will be chosen 100% of the time against eclipse, because the damage increase is the same, but you get more bang out of your buck with Roar, so why take a DR that is pointless since we have loads of innate and/or stronger defenses on basically all the frames (Ahem, shield gate and Adaptation/Rolling Guard). They way I see it, Eclipse was there for silly numbers (which is a valid choice for fun and games are meant to be fun) and the Tridolon, and that's it. It wasn't needed anywhere else where stupid amounts of damage could already be easily achieved. Nerfing Eclipse doesn't change that. It only penalizes a little corner of the community, but does so hugely. Just Downsides.

People who want big damage will still take a damage increase, they will pick Roar, as they were when Helminth came to being. Then what? nerf Roar some more? Wasn't it enough to kill Chroma and Rhino? Chroma, is only used for Profit Taker and Rhino became food for Helminth since the Nezha rework and even more so since Overguard can't reduce incoming damages directly, now we lose access to the last damage increase that was a contester for Roar. I don't get why a high usage is a concern, the game is about grinding ressources while doing ludicrous amount of damage and bring death and destruction to hordes of ennemies, of course the option to get simply more damage will get loads of attention: the game design calls for it. 

Oh, and this:

Il y a 3 heures, KitMeHarder a dit :

• This is much too low for the damage increase. It needs to be around 120-100%.
• That is not how you "match the Diminished Effectiveness of Rhino’s Roar". Roar is 50% and goes to 30%, so it has 3/5 the effectiveness. So then with Eclipse, 3/5 of 200% is 120%.
• If the damage reduction aspect is what's holding you back, split the ability in half like Equinox's Rest & Rage. Have which buff the subsume gives be based off the frame's primary emissive color. Or I'm sure there are other options to do the same thing.

On another note, about the invisibility QoL that is awesome, I'm kind of sceptical about how it will affect the other Frame, I feel strongly it should be a general option. Ivara/Octavia easily affect other players with their base kit, and the other frames have Augments that does it, but things like Arcane trickery, Untraceable (Parazon mod) or Shade's precept are accessible to everyone very easily so where does all that go?

Concerning Nourish, it was too good, the nerf was unavoidable and harsh but, maybe too much? But I don't really care since I barely used it and never really needed it.

"Only" 6 Omni fissure seems low, but the nodes are good. I wouldnt be surprised if more missions got added to that list over time, and I kind of expect it.

Overall, lots of great stuff. But the bad takes more mind-space, it can't be helped. I just hope DE will listen. They often do, so I dare still hope.

Edits: typo and stuff

Edited March 13 by ChossetteDivine

[Kherae]

8 minutes ago, DTaina said:

I've been saying this for years!  His snow globes can be such a detriment to the squad.  I've lost count of the number of times I've had squad members complaining about them even when I go out of my way to pop them.  Giving allies the ability to shoot through his snow globe from the outside would be a much-needed QoL update for poor Frost.  

Also, for a future upgrade, I'd love to be able to move the snow globe like the Eximus can.  

most things can shoot out of, not into...but qorvex's 4 cant do EITHER...

very annoying yes

[Kadesfy]

4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

OMNIA VOID FISSURES

A new variant of Void Fissure has appeared! Found on Star Chart Nodes previously untouched by Void Fissures, a new, powerful Omnia Fissure will appear, allowing Tenno to crack Lith, Meso, Neo, or Axi Relics, whatever they choose! 

 

Just like other Fissure types, there will be one Omnia Fissure available at all times on both standard and Steel Path difficulties. Tenno must have access to the respective node on the Star Chart in order to access the correlating Omnia Fissure, including any Quests necessary for the node:

• The War Within Quest for Lua

• Angels of the Zariman Quest for Zariman

• Whispers in the Walls Quest for Albrecht’s Laboratories 

 Would it be possible to have some of the railjack tilesets for the omnia fissures? like murex, derelict and corpus ice mines, and corpus derelict tilesets?

[Kherae]

2 minutes ago, ChossetteDivine said:

<snipped>

30% eclipse is stronger numerically than 30% roar. learn how the multipliers work (see previous page of this thread) rhino can do level cap with iron skin, nezha can't with his halo because eventually the damage you take will oneshot you through halo.

[CoffeeElemental]

5 часов назад, [DE]Megan сказал:

Omnia Fissures can be found on:

• Lua: Yuvarium (Conjunction Survival)

• Lua: Circulus (Conjunction Survival)

• Zariman: Everview Arc (Void Flood)

• Zariman: Tuvul Commons (Void Cascade)

• Albrecht’s Laboratories: Cambire (Alchemy)

• Albrecht’s Laboratories: Persto (Survival)

Hmm, why endless only?

I play fissures to (try to) burn through my ridiculously huge pile of relics, not to get more of them. Pretty sure I'm not the only one who does that.

[ChossetteDivine]

il y a 23 minutes, Kherae a dit :

30% eclipse is stronger numerically than 30% roar. learn how the multipliers work (see previous page of this thread) rhino can do level cap with iron skin, nezha can't with his halo because eventually the damage you take will oneshot you through halo.

Eclipse doesnt' double dip on DoTs.

Roar affects ability, and allies and all their damage in range by default.

Overguard gets destroyed on higher lvl with no way to increase the invulnerability time unlike shield gate.

Nezha still has shield gate like everybody else.

Lvl cap is a stupid metric anyways.

Edited March 13 by ChossetteDivine

[YNCShadow]

What Im really worried about has happened now – the first time a helminth power get a nerf 85%. We can say goodbye to Profit Taker relying on this Helminth Eclipse nerf. Moreover, its more harsh to solo players with only 30% eclipse to increase weapon damage.

I would not say DR is entirely useless, but its not as crucial as boosting weapon damage, we have plenty of ways to servive easily, but for increase weapon damage(not base on status) there are only eclipse and roar.

[BongoSkaggs]

10 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

You may be asking yourself, why choose to Subsume Eclipse over Roar? 

Roar also affects Abilities and double dips on damage over time. If pure damage is the goal, one would probably choose Roar. Eclipse can switch between defensive and offensive buffs for situational gameplay choices.

Judging by how few players seem to make use of mid-mission stance swapping on other frames such Chroma, I severely doubt many will get a great deal of use out of swapping between Eclipse modes. Making subsumed Eclipse pay a hybrid tax because players technically can to swap between a lackluster offensive buff and a lackluster defensive buff is very silly and does little to make it a compelling subsume option. In fact the only place I can see this new Eclipse might be particularly special is for potentially degenerate defense stacking shenanigans with already powerful abilities like Warding Halo and overguard.

I would much rather see subsumed Eclipse remain powerful while also becoming more limited in scope than be subject to hybrid tax that turns it into an unrewarding middle ground. There are many ways to accomplish this. Here are some quick, spitballed suggestions:

• Make subsumed Eclipse only provide its substantial weapon damage buff.
• Make subsumed Eclipse only provide its substantial damage reduction buff. Maybe even buffed up to 90% cap and made mutually exclusive with other defensive abilities like Iron Skin, Warding Halo, etc.
• Have the frame's emissive color govern if subsumed Eclipse will grant either the substantial damage buff or the substantial damage reduction buff. That way the choice between buffs is a build choice made outside of the mission rather than a reactive one.

Edited March 14 by BongoSkaggs

[Raikh]

Unexpected and pretty amazing change for invisibility Frames, definitely looking forward to that.

Nourish nerf stings a bit, atleast the energy nerf but I think it will still work well enough for what I'm using it rn. Gotta play around with it a bit but I expected worse.

I still think the Eclipse subsume nerf is too harsh. If it stayed at ~50% or so, fair, the Roar parallel is awkward. Damage intake is usually not predictable enough in Warframe to make frequent and reliable use of being able to swap the Eclipse modes freely. So in the vast majority of cases players will look for Eclipse with one of its modes in mind, rather than for both. Normally I'd subscribe to the logic presented, but as Warframe plays out right now it doesn't make too much sense.

Augments also make the Roar vs Eclipse situation more complex as Roar's Augment effectively gives you a dmg reduction effect, so depending on the willingness of giving a mod slot for it Roar can do both at once, whereas the Eclipse augment just gives a worse team wide buffing component to it than Roar has inherently.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

These are some really nice changes. 

As someone who really likes Disruption, and know that many dislike it, always made me a bit sad when I would see someone who wants to enjoy Disruption, but not being able to, because of hearing issues. So even though I never needed the accessibility changes, I am happy to see them. 

Something I will be benefitted by first hand though, is the addition of Fissures to more nodes, and missions, and the Omni fissure, which is something I didn't even know I wanted, but am now super hyped to see. 

Cheers, 

[TrapperCZE]

what about Mirages second ability ?  Sleight of Hand jewel type depends on environmental lighting at the target position

will it now be also toggle or ? 

[(PSN)palebluelight]

The viral damage nerfs go way too far. Nerfing for popularity is the worst type of nerf possible it doesn’t perform out of any ordinary Warframe ability loop. Completely unnecessary. I’m a vet have everything this just kills motivation to play. These are the worst kind of nerfs because it’s just devs looking for something as opposed to something being exploited. 

[ShogunGunshow]

30% is an overreaction and is, in fact, usually worse than what you can get right now in even the dimmest settings that could still be counted as 'Light.'

At least the DR will still be worth something on Helminth.

[iPathos]

The Loki changes have me rather excited, especially the Switch Teleport QoL! I might get a lot more use out of my boy yet. 

Now, Eclipse. As many have already said, there's definitely far too much weight being placed on Lunar Eclipse when considering how much lower Solar Eclipse should be.
Others have also mentioned that the drop on Roar through helminth is to about 3/5 efficacy, while this proposed change to Solar Eclipse would be close to an 80% reduction, all the way down to 1/5 efficacy. Roar acting as a faction damage bonus (including its effects on DoT and the like) should be a pretty clear indicator that Solar Eclipse taking such a reduction in numbers is too heavy-handed. Since the semi-recent change to Eclipse's UI accuracy, it's been far easier to gauge exactly how strong a buff we've been getting from the lighting conditions we're subject to. 

It would make far more sense to me if the Helminth'd version simply did not have the on-the-fly switching of the buffs as an option, having the frame's emissive color choice dictate the buff they receive. Otherwise, having Lunar Eclipse's cap be the same but its starting percentage being much lower - this in particular seems like a missed opportunity for balancing for Helminth.

The Gara passive change seems pretty nice on paper, pity mechanics like this would be lovely to see used more around the game, in my opinion.

The Nourish change sounds fair so far, it always struck me as a little odd just how strong it still was when infused into other frames.

I'm liking the look of the invisible frames toggle for the appearance menu, seems like it'll let us be just that bit more meticulous about our looks!

The Netracell drop table adjustment is a very welcome change. For a very short while on starting them, the non-exclusive arcanes did help - but that very quickly burns down to Vosfor food for so many players.

Very much looking forward to the Omnia Fissures once they drop, it sounds like it'll be an extremely versatile addition to framer routines.

Steel Path Cavia Bounties too? You're spoiling us!

Very much looking forward to how things go moving forward, many of these changes are both welcome and intriguing.

[_Anise_]

5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Decoy now also draws 15% of the Health and Shield totals of enemies within a base of 15m

draws not gains? draw could imply its removed from the enemies, is this correct ?

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Warframes with Invisibility abilities (Loki, Ivara, Ash, Octavia, and Voruna)

and wisp....right? a passive invisibility skill is still an ability surely?

 

[K4RN4]

2 hours ago, Kherae said:

With regard to weapons: Eclipse is a final multiplier. Roar is a faction modifier, additive with other faction modifiers. 30% eclipse is still stronger than 30% roar.

Didn't they say on the Devstream that they'll change Eclipse from Final Multiplier to being like a damage mod? I think most people are complaining based on that.

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

Subsumed Eclipse having its dmg resist capped at 75% is a miss for me.

 

Makes it not worth the subsume.

 

I'd rather have the damage portion completely removed and buff the dmg resist up to 90%.

 

We have damage helminth options already.

Hell, we have enough damage without buffs already. 

We don't need more damage.

 

What we don't have is a worthwhile survivability option.

Open up the roster.

[HunterDigi]

Please see 

 

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Prism - Remove damage scaling based on environmental lighting.

What was the original scaling based on light?

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

The red Conduit is now yellow to better prompt visual clarity between the icons and Demolysts.

The white and blue are also hard to differentiate between themselves especially on the held one... can the white be green or the blue one be a more saturated blue instead of that faded out blue?

[Eternal_Phenix_Prime]

51 minutes ago, iPathos said:

The Gara passive change seems pretty nice on paper, pity mechanics like this would be lovely to see used more around the game, in my opinion.

TBH it's horrible for casual gara players who mainly use her only for mass vitrify as a defensive tool, especially if using Blind rage. Such a play style is quite stingy on ability casts, to the point were this change would make gara's passive almost non existent

Gara's passive doesn't have the same issue as mirage. For mirage you have to proactively manage where you were standing in order to get the desired buff & the maximum % bonus. For gara it's simply a question of moving around and it will proc on it's own as you navigate the map and the lighting conditions slightly change. You aren't trying to reliably maintain anything, there isn't a magic perma radial blind that you're trying to maintain. It's just a nice perk that would randomly proc, and this change effectively means it will never proc for certain play styles.

Edited March 14 by Eternal_Phenix_Prime

[SteveCutler]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

How will the frames look to other players? Will they see our custom settings? Or will they see what they've always seen aka floaty name? Will other's settings override yours -- for example, my semi-transparent Ash/Ivara turned invisible by a glow Ash/Ivara?

Good question. Since they're making it an option in the frame's fashion settings, I assume other players will see your setting, just like with colors, skins, etc.

[Chroia]

7 hours ago, Waeleto said:

PAIN

Meh.
Sure, it's a nerf, but it genuinely effectively changes nothing.
I was expecting the energy mult to be straight up removed.

[Taloh]

• By draws do we mean that it pulls a number or actual health from an enemy? Could this kill an enemy with High enough strength? And thank you for a use for switch teleport that is not the Plains drone or trolling squad mates, does make the race to extraction more fun.
• The damage reduction cap remaining for Helminth mirage is frustrating. More preferable would be the inclusion of a lower modifier 30-45% that can be scaled with strength. This would make the flip flopping effect for Helminth Eclipse much better as swapping from Lunar during general play to Solar for a tougher opponent a healthier game play loop than turning it on and never thinking about it again. It would also synergize the stats that both sides of the ability are looking for. Additionally we have several frames in game that when placed in Steel Path content require a babysitter to keep them up or revive them constantly, Nekros, Banshee, Vaubaun, Oberon, Limbo, Caliban and Gyre would all look at eclipse as a compelling choice for Damage reduction over one of their abilities. Some of these frames are propped up by Gloom, but they would much prefer to build the stats Eclipse desires.
• It would be nice if either the duration of Gara's passive scaled with Duration or it exposed finishers.
• Nourish Changes are more gentle than I was expecting, still compelling
• Attenuation sucks, please DE reconsider this facet of the game. For lower MR players the experience of their gun doing less damage when a player with a more intensive build shoots the same target feels bad for both players. If encounters need to be drawn out for time please consider what you have in the Angel fights in the Zariman. The chunk mechanic formula where you do your chunk of damage then a mechanic takes place is a much better inclusion for all players involved. Warframe does not aside from a certain multiarmed friend have many mechanical encounters, but where it does the game excels as the player is allowed the mechanic check rather than an endo one. Where the fight needs to be longer i.e. Liches an armor strip floor would be compelling here instead of their current attenuation. Lich fights currently are either for a player with a complete arsenal a tedious encounter of being thrown around the room while you wait for your gun/melee to be allowed to do enough damage or for players without a chance to spend some revives. Voidrig already has a small mechanic in its encounter where you to operator to clear the Storm Shield. In summation, for a player that does not have to worry about attenuation the mechanic is an annoyance thrown into compelling encounters. For players who are still struggling to clear the bar of the current mission it is a demoralizing lengthening of the fight the does not teach the player how to interactively complete the encounter for the next time. All that being said, apart from the standing complaint Voidrig encounters feels like its in a good spot, I hope Bonewidow shares the same tier.
• We love inclusivity, Disruption changes are good.
• Invis changes are very nice for fashion frame, Finally I can be an Ash fashonista without looking like a fart cloud.
• Thank you to the community team for hearing from us and changing the drop tables for Netracells. Melee arcanes for those of us that did Gargoyles cry have really been a strain on Netracell enjoyment.
• Omnia fissures seems like a great direction for this core loop of the game to be embarking on but I think we are a bit too hesitant on the Missions allowed for this test run. As it seems only endless mission are going to be included in the fissure I would offer the suggestion of the following nodes to add to the variety of the fissures.
  • Apollo, this node is fantastic and favorite among Prime Access grind spots. Its exclusion feels like either an oversight or a pearl that will cause friction within the community.
  • Tyana Pass, this Node is not great for time but adding a third grind to the tier, (Vosfor, Steel Essence and Ducats) would really complement this mission.
  • Laomedia, This would offer the inclusion of a credit fissure where neither the index or profit taker allow for relics this would make this node a compelling choice for those who need to supplement their pedestal prime caches.
  • Munio, This nodes lack of pity currency really makes the grind here substantially worse to Tyana pass but relics would increase the rate players choose to play on this node.
  • Mithra & Mot, Having access to the void on these fissure would allow for more circular relic opportunities for advanced players. Again I feel this could be an irritation point for this system.
  • Rhea & Helene, Providing the backbone of the Relic farm with a place that rewards Orokin cells I feel would be productive for new players to get accustomed to the relic gameplay loop as well as allow for levelling while relic cracking.
• Very excited for SP Zariman and Cavia bounties, adding SE to these is very compelling for time investment.

Thank you once again to the Dev team, with an especial thank you to Pablo for rehabilitating the Pharaoh of Mars. I am very excited for this update and the current direction of development. I look forward with anticipation to 1999 and bringing empathy to Indifference.

 

 

[_Anise_]

45 minutes ago, Eternal_Phenix_Prime said:

Gara's passive doesn't have the same issue as mirage

it has the issue that it dosn't work at all in the new lighting system same as mirage.

first idk why it has to be a radial blind, second why can't it just be a 10% on taking damage to blind that one enemy ?

but maybe it will be ok and promote a more cheap spammy subsume playstyle

[River_Stryx]

Hey, I was wondering if someone (from DE) can explain the reasoning behind Eclipses damage reduction effect (in Helminth) being left at 75% with no scaling? It doesn't make you invulnerable, and you would still have to build for some strength and duration to make it comfortable to use. Any frame that already has no trouble surviving in high level content won't need/use it. I just don't see how it would break the game to give squishier frames the option of having respectable DR.

Edited March 14 by River_Stryx