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[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop: Passives, Volt, Mag & More!

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Expected more thought into all this. Expected DE listening to more suggestions from us instead of putting out such a dissappointment to most passives. Dunno. Hoping you guys change your mind :/

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Oberon passive fails - only wildlife exists on phobos or earth + grineer pets.
Void, derelict, any corpus mission etc got nothing.

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17 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Time to truly make Volt 'an alternative to gunplay' – Warframe Description, 2012.

First, Volt gets a passive (listed below).

Shock remains untouched as 'it’s a pretty great first ability' – [DE]Scott. The love of zapping is eternal.

Speed most noticeably has had its FOV reduced on cast, which should help with motion sickness complaints. Other players in range now get to 'opt-in' to Volt's Speed buff, by activating a pickup that Volt leaves behind on cast. This activation occurs on contact.

Shield will be receiving a graphic overhaul to improve the look of casting, ambient effects, and its effect on projectiles that pass through. Shield now offers strong synergies if Shock is cast through it – it charges the shield with Electric damage which will hurt enemies that come in contact. As a late-addition driven by player demand, Shield can now be picked up with a context action which limits weapon usage and drains energy.

Overload still spreads out from Volt in a wave, and enemies who come into contact are turned into stationary 'Tesla Coils' that arc and zap nearby enemies in range.

Damage is dealt to the enemy-turned- Tesla Coil and its targets. Loot crates can also be turned into Coils, but they only have one charge. Casting Shock on Tesla Coil causes an AOE burst.

Passive (Volt): Physical ground-travel distance between attacks causes bonus Electrical damage on next attack.

First, I appreciate the major change in Overload. It was by far his weakest power and needed adjustments to bring it back up to with the rest of changed landscape of Warframe. I am also happy that you are leaving Shock and Shield mostly alone, with enhancements to Shield. I'm neutral on the Passive, as explained below, as I don't really think its going to have that major of an impact, and especially not on Melee. It'll be a nice little perk, but not likely to be anything spectacular. 

Second, what I am not very happy about is the change to Speed dropping 'pickups'. The 'problem' I saw cited with Speed being used on other players was the monition sickness impact from the FoV change... which does not happen to squad members.  Or if there is an FoV change it's so minor to the point I couldn't see it on my 32 inch screen from 24 inches (2 feet) away. And I'm one of those people who has Simulation Sickness issues, which I've been on you about before in the Liset/Ship UI before (still an issue). I play with HUD motion disabled (where possible), maxed FoV, and all that motion-blur junk off where I can find it. I am very aware of the Simulation Sickness, being an ally under the effects of Volt speed has never been trigger. Because as an ally our FoV is not messed with at all.

 At one point squad members FoV was changed by speed, sometime shortly after the one of the earliest Volt adjustments, but it was pointed out as an issue then and addressed. I have been presented with no other evidenced with why a squad member would not want the Volt speed buff. In all the hours playing Volt I have never had a squad member request that I try to avoid giving them Speed. Changing Speed to a drop is trying to fix an issue that doesn't exist and it hurts Speed's utility as a party buff. If this change stays I'd want to see it compensated for by reducing Speed's cost to 15.

As others have already pointed out, creating a drop brings with it all kinds of management headaches for the rest of the party.

  1. If the Volt is ahead, they now have to adjust their movement path to intercept the pickup point, which if it's the same size as the Focus pick-up would very well be cleanly missed. This breaks the flow of movement for the squad member.
  2. If the Volt is at the rear of the squad, but not out of Old/Current Speed's range, it is only useful for Volt to catch up and then requires a recast (if it can even be recast in this new inferior version), which brings back up #1. Worse, squad members may feel compelled to backtrack to grab the Speed pick, which is an even worse disruption.
  3. If the Volt is in a non-linear fight, such as a Boss fight or a larger Trial(raid) arena, squad members will need really need to go out of their way to pickup the buff.

This is a direct and hard nerf to Speed as a Squad power.

I need to see a better justification then, 'it messes with the FoV,' for changing Speed to a drop. It is already a non-issue, fixes literally no problem, and creates all kinds of other problems for no functional benefit. Your time would have been better spent looking at finding a way to Code in a "remove ally buff" button-combo that isn't just roll.

If you are thinking of doing this change in Speed for Lunaro, I'm going to start to question the viability for Lunaro as game mode before it's released. And would be PvP negatively impacting PvE, something we've told you time and again to not do.

This change to Speed is an unneeded mess.

Third, I'm still not seeing where these changes to Volt make him an alternative to gunplay. If by alternative you mean Melee and not power use... he's still not going to be great at it. As Volt Veteran since Closed Beta, I never once found the marketing line for Volt true. He has always been a Gun & Sword Play ENHANCER. From his low health and armor, to his power kit, nothing about him really makes him a partially viable 'alternative' fighter either as pure power use or as near pure melee. Frankly it would just be easier to accept what Volt is and change a line of descriptive text than to try and making him something he's not.

Let's break it down from a player perspective as to why Volt is not either a Melee alternative to gunplay, nor a power spam alternative. Take these breakdown points as areas that would need to be changed to make him such.

Not Melee:

  1. Health and Armor:  100 (300 @ 30), 15. This is not the health and armor of a Melee warframe. As soon as Volts shields go down he's in very real danger, especially at higher levels of play. He has no real staying power at melee range.
  2. Speed: Cannot currently be cast mid melee swing animation, and thus breaks the flow of combat to reapply. Even if modded for duration, this break can still happen as in the current game Speed cannot be recast. This prevents it from being reapplied while closing with the next pocket of enemies.
  3. Shield: With the upcoming build its a bit better since it can be picked up and charged to Shock enemies. In the current build and for someone having energy issues (for upcoming build), it was a static defense point and had not true value in an aggressive and fast melee game.
  4. Overload: Freeze's volt in place. The new Overload looks like it will be better since it will have a stronger crowd control element, but it isn't purely a melee supporting power either.

Volt is the epitome of lighting strike. Hit fast and fade. The low health/armor, issues with speed, and the static nature of shield (in the current version) encourage Volts to dash in and then fall back to cover. Order of play usually is, Speed into a room. Shock any enemies that are immediate threats. Roll forward and Drop Shield at that point, then Roll backward (this gives spacing for shield to take Napalm and Bombard shots without splash). Shield again (2 shields up). Overload. Reapply Speed, go for melee with some Shock spam. When Warframe shields break, return to the deployed Volt Shields to recharge.

or more efficiently  

Stand behind the shields and shoot everything with your primary and stacking damage bonus from the shields.

Unless that bonus damage off the passive is really good, I don't see a reason to make Melee a primary combat mode for Volt. He isn't built to be in close combat for long. If it is good, I expect Volts will become the Slide-Attack Jacks. Which would be the most efficient use of damage buff on biggest area. Run around at Speed, then slide and spin with a Reach weapon.

Not Power-spam

  1. Half of Volt's Kit is buff/support/utility. Speed and Shield.
  2. Shock's damage is very high and doesn't really scale up well. There is also no utility augment the way Ash has Seeking Shuriken, to strip Armor off enemies Shock's augment is to give allies a damage buff.
  3. Overload (even with what the rework is showing) has long stopped being a source of real damage. It is a medium burst but is mainly used for crowd control. I don't see that changing with upcoming changes.

Volt is just not a "Power Damage" Warframe, not the point that many others are. Certainly not the point of using powers as an 'alternative to gun play'.

Let me be clear. Volt is fine as an enhancer, has been for almost two years now. Do not pull an Ember on him and radically shift him away from that just to make him fill something that he never did.

 

 

Edited by Brasten
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15 hours ago, Zandermanith222 said:

The whole reason why you're changing Shield Polarize, was because it was restricted to a single Faction. And now one of the passives you're introducing is....Restricted to one faction?

Learning from past mistakes is for noobs.

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Only Leechers dislike new Speed mechanic. Because whenever Volt goes 250+str they'll just stay ahead with their Exalted Blades, Hysterias and Bladestorms. Not anymore.

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Now for substantive feedback.

First off: Warframe suffers in all sorts of places from a lack of cohesion of design vision.

* What kind of game is it supposed to be? (PvE / PvP, shooter-with-magic / ability-spamfest, how vertical? What's melee's role?)

* How is it supposed to deal with power level / progression? (MR vs. weapon power vs. crafting requirements)

* What is the purpose of Augments? Mechanics changes (Chaos Sphere), customisation (Fatal Teleport) or alternate functionality (Tectonic Fracture/Titanic Rambler)? To bring up underperformers (Mind Freak)? A straight buff (Rift Torrent)? At what point does this start overlapping with a tech/upgrade tree?

 

That in mind, start by clearly defining what purpose a passive is supposed to achieve.

How significant is it supposed to be? How situational/global? How impactful?
I mean, contrast and compare Excalibur's passive (or Mesa's, or Equinox's, etc.) with Inaros'.

Excal (etc.)'s passive is (in PvE) basically a flavor passive: It's fairly insignificant, making him a tiny bit better at his gimmick (not niche) than anyone else can be, but it's a small additive bonus. It's situational (melee only), but always works with EB regardless of melee equipped.
Inaros, on the other hand, is stupidly tanky - which stems directly from his passive triggering off his 1. This isn't just flavor, nor even merely impactful but gamechanging: remove it and he plays completely differently (barring Life Strike and potentially Coverty Lethality).
Remember what I said about lacking design cohesion? Here's a glaring example; which makes it hard for anyone to suggest a passive, since we don't know how to 'calibrate' it.

So, the passives:

  • Ash - Slight buff for Blade Storm, flavor otherwise. Alright.
  • Banshee - Overlaps with Silence without solving Silence's issue (enemies fire, alerting other enemies outside Silence's range). Flavor though somewhat useful, but feels like a missed opportunity. Guess I can remove Hush from a bunch of weapons now?
  • Ember - Flavor, theoretically useful but will almost never trigger, barring enviromental hazards. Also, most enemies that can proc Fire (Napalms, Scorches, Fusion Moas, Hyekka Masters) will already kill you pretty damn fast.
  • Hydroid - Flavor, if nonsensical. Don't play him enough to have a better grounded opinion.
  • Limbo - Primarily flavor, it's alright I guess but he still needs to be polished. (e.g. Cataclysm is essentially suicide.)
  • Loki - Flavor, possibly useful; further, he doesn't really need much. I don't wall-latch often enough to have a better grounded opinion.
  • Mag - Vaccuum requires movement to trigger, now. Unless it has a larger range than Carrier, it's redundant. Also, +1 nail in GPull's coffin.
  • Nekros - Primarily flavor, not being significant enough to be a game-changer for melee Nekros, but still nice.
  • Nova - Not gonna complain as it'll probably save your life every once in a while. That said, not flavorful and rather situational.
  • Nyx - No no NO dammit. Stop overlapping Nyx and Loki. How about 'enemies targetting her have a chance to suffer a personal Chaos effect for 3 seconds'? or even just 'enemies striking Nyx in melee suffer a forced stun (holding head animation)'. Not that that'd be particularly useful, but GAH!
    This will hurt Mind Control, won't save Psychic Bolts, could work with Chaos (which makes even more overlap with Loki's ID) and possibly Absorb (but why use that over Chaos?).
  • Oberon - O...kay? Flavor, buys you a few seconds, once, from pet-zergs. Eh.
  • Trinity - Flavor. If teammates are dying, something's gone severely wrong. Still, won't complain.
  • Vauban - Flavor. I mean, I get it: fortifications. But it's not actually particularly useful, definitely not worth modding for, and - oh yes - encourages camping.
  • Volt - Flavor. On the one hand, kinda funny and potentially useful (and not tileset-dependant). On the other... why on Earth wouldn't I just Bullet Jump? Jury's out.


-----

19 hours ago, Fifield said:

Much much much better than having to turn around just to check how far back the Speed pickup is.

But I'd be happy to hear other suggestions.  I've already suggested a don't-mess-with-me toggle key.

I'll grant you it's better (*cough* Convergence *cough*) but that's not the same as being good. :/

Suggestions? Hm.

For 3 seconds after recieving Speed, you can press your 'Interact' button to accept/decline the buff.

Add a button to the Q interface, which the cursor always starts at, to accept/dispel an incoming buff. Faster than the above and less likely to cause conflicts.

Have the Speed pickup drop individually, clientside, 10m ahead of the player in the direction the camera is facing.

None are particularly good (I like the last least), but they're the best I can come up with. I'd go with an 'opt out' toggle as well, I think.

Edited by Chroia
GFDI, Forum editor. Fine, you don't like the list tag. I get it.
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Kinda disappointed with Oberons passive.

There isn't really that much wildlife to befriend in the first place.

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17 hours ago, residente said:

Some of the passives are... disappointing. We need passives like Inaros' one. Inaros is the perfect example of a passive well implemented.

Vauban: 25 armor (Vauban Prime) if one of your allies is near you. That's 125 armor instead of 100, now Vauban Prime will have the same armor as Ember Prime! I expected it to be the other way: Vauban gives allies 25% armor. 

Oberon: no words. Instead of giving him something useful to compensate his mediocrity you make him allied of the wild life, which is present in just a couple of tilesets. Why not give him physical procs immunity, or a passive health regeneration to allies? 

Hydroid: again, a mediocre warframe that has his utilities. He could have gotten a proper passive to compensate how lackluster he is, and instead we have some ground finisher passive.

Ember: we need to take damage to make use of her passive, why not add a 90-100% resistance to the fire damage dealt from procs, maintaining the other buffs?

Nekros: stats are just too small. 5 health is nothing and you now it, and 10 metters means near melee range to get any benefit from that. And Nekros is not the kind of warframe that would go close range aginst his enemies.

^^ this ,

Oberon passive is a joke .... why did I even bought that skin for ... I always tought he is a paladin ,not a druid ... in A SPACE.

Edited by Guest

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How exactly is Vaubans passive going to work? Is the bonus armor affected by mods? I would also say, that vauban and vauban prime should get the same bonus, so the prime version doesn't get a big bonus beyond the base stats. And finally I would rather have this bonus be granted to every teammate in a radius around the powers he uses rather than to him and only when teammates are nearby. Even in a defense it often happens that players run out of a 10m radius and it would completly useless without a group. If it was around his powers it would make him a lot better at defending stuff, where currently frost just feels a lot more powerful, because his globe protects against ranged attacks.

Embers passive also sounds pretty bad to me. I guess it's great when used with quick thinking. Maybe add elemental resistance to her along with the other elemental based frames (frost, volt, saryn).

Also chromas passive doesn't help him all that much. From what I've seen from other players and what seems to be most effective to me, is that the extra armor available from the ice colors is just the most useful, because an armor tank is really what most players want out of chroma. It would be nice if maybe the passive would allow him to regenerate shields when he is using electricity based colors, so he can use vex armor better, without having to rely on his sentinel or arcanes. Just something that makes his whole kit complete, because right now it is very hard to mod him effectively and the potential to give buffs to teammates isn't really used.

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17 hours ago, Archwizard said:

For some feedback I already passed along to Rebecca regarding passives:

Additionally, Crush really needs more than "does more damage" to be scalable. Presently all it brings to the table, once damage falls off, is a knockdown; it's paltry compared to the effects of other ultimates, and even her other abilities.

I am interested in seeing Rift Surge go, especially if that means its effects could be automatically rolled into his Rift-inducing abilities (a damage bonus whenever Rift Walk is active would be exactly the same - good spot for Rift Torrent, by the way). The idea of a replacement is exciting; there's a high call for him to have some kind of teleport, or perhaps an effect that swaps based on his current Rift state, something less dependent on him being in the Rift to use the effect, while still incentivising it.

You know what's funny? Of all of what you complained about here, the Chroma one amuses me most because...

 

That's not a passive.. That's just an actual mechanic designed for the frame, to change the element. His passive is dependent on the color, yeah, but actually changing the element isn't the passive.

Edited by WingedCrusade

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I'm noticing a trend with these passives. Some of them are solid additions but quite a few of them just seem like they're being held back. It seems DE is hesitant to make them significant. Lets go over a few to see what I mean.

Hydroid: This could've been a really cool passive but since its only a 50% chance, its inconsistent and thus can't be relied on/built for.

Loki: We were promised infinite wall latch time but it was changed to 10x. Why? What was wrong with simply being able to latch forever? You can already basically do that anyway with any frame just by re-latching every time you unlatch.

Oberon: This one actually had a lot of potential since it would essentially just keep getting better as more wildlife are added to the game. The problem here is that its only within a certain range and is limited to 20 seconds. I see no reason why they can't just be permanently allied with him; It would make for a more interesting & significant passive.

In conclusion, I think passives should stand out more & really change the way you play a frame. Adding a small chance to do x or a small amount of y is meaningless because it ends up being a trivial thing you notice occasionally instead of something that really surprises/impresses the player. 

 

 

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Started thinking about Mesa's Shooting Gallery change. Since it will be on her all the time now, it makes her Staggering Shield augment pointless. The main draw of it is that when Shooting Gallery hopped to someone else, Shatter Shield was able to pick up some of the slack and do some minor crowd control and drop the number of close range enemies simultaneously attacking you. But if she can lock near by enemies down all the time like she's soloing, there doesn't seem to be any point to it existing anymore because all the near by enemies will be locked down and the ones out of range of Shooting Gallery aren't likely to be hit by Shatter Shield anyway.

Edited by Ceryk

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To be honest whats the point of those passives in the first place again?

Still average players are gona play 20 - 40 waves in T3 or T4 Defense 

Still average players are gona play 20 - 40 min in T3 or T4 Survival

Still average players will play max 12 rounds in T4 I

Still average players will play T3 or T4 sabotages ... where passives are really not imporatant to start with ...

AND still, players will have no use from those passives in T3 or T4 Exterminate ...

Did I list all game modes? Oh yea ... I dont know what to say for capture missions ...

Instead of adding useles passives (and by that copying other games) you should focus more on the "card systems" aka MODS cuz this is  the only game that I know that use that system ...

Enjoy WarFarm ... FRAME

 

 

 

Edited by Guest

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17 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Volt:

Shock remains untouched as 'it’s a pretty great first ability' – [DE]Scott. The love of zapping is eternal.

 

It will be a lot better if implement additional function such as holding the key will cause volt to casting a constant lightning... This ability so unusable even with natural talent on a Earth DS mission... Especially now you can charge your shields and targets...

 

Passives:

Hydroid: Every Melee Ground-Slam has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that will last 15 seconds.  

 

How often do players use Ground Slams besides on weapons like Jat Kittag? It is so punishing to use ground slam as it roots you over a second. Will this proc in slam attack combos? It better be, if not it's extremely unreliable. Would rather you limit it to one tenticle each time than a 50% chance, chance means not on demand which is always bad. Reduce effect is always better than chance proc...

 

Limbo*: Holster Speed and Reload Speed is 50% faster while in the Rift, and movement speed increases by 10% while in the Rift.

This should be passively included while you are into the rift not a Limbo passive, why would you assassinate someone in the rift if you are still in equal ground?

 

Nekros: Enemy death within 10 meters of Nekros regenerates a 5 Health.

I'm not using a loot Nekros so I'm well aware how powerful this passive is, I really look forward if 5 is too much or too little. My guess now is fair amount.

 

Oberon: All wildlife (neutral or enemy faction) within a 10 meter range of Oberon will become allies and fight for Oberon for 20 seconds.

Terrible idea, I just don't see a reason for this to exist. Enemies will attack wild life and wild life attack our enemies. You just have to walk away and they will kill each other. If DE really wants to implement this why not BUFF the wild life and force to attack enemies only. Sometimes an AI ally is not needed, sometimes when you wish to scan or whatever...making them allies breeds more trouble than help in my vision.

 

Vauban: Other Warframes within 10 meters give you 25% bonus armour.

I don't think that makes a different on Vauban? How about make a buff to teammates instead of buffing yourself? I highly doubt Vaubans needs to risk their life. Or anyone in general have to risk their life if Vanban is around.

 

 

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question about Volt picking up hes shield

will Volt be able to gain energy while having hes shield picked up? cause afaik energy drain abilites disable energy gain from any other sources than orbs if he cant gain energy the shield is just wasted concept, and most likely i dont see any other Volt using it.

Also Volt needs a small buff to base duration of hes speed buff and shield.

Speed base duration 15 sec

Shield 25 sec

Edited by Dante123pl
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16 minutes ago, Ventasis said:

 

Loki: We we promised infinite wall latch time but it was changed to 10x. Why? What was wrong with simply being able to latch forever? You can already basically do that anyway with any frame just by re-latching every time you unlatch.

 

First of all, what are you attempting to do? You don't need infinite WL. Second, that trick doesn't work. The timer is cumulative with all the wall-latches. It doesn't reset till you touch the ground.

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17 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Ember: Receiving a Heat Status effect will regenerate energy for the duration of the Status effect (10 energy per second) and increase Power Strength by 35%.

Wait, does this mean you want to dive into napalm? RECEIVING heat procs is absolutely deadly on higher levels, how is this passive any good? (also this only works against grineer, other factiions hardly ever heat proc you...)

I thought they would give ember the regen and power buffs when INFLICTING heat... (or at least make it possible for ember to self-immolate with an augment or something...)

Edited by CrudShuzKong
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Oberon, When Oberon takes damage he have a chance to unleash regeneration in AoE if allies were within it they would get regen on them, if they were at full health it will stay on them until they take damage to health which it will health them over time!

Hydroid, when Hydroid cast his abilities he leaves pools of water that can slow enemies down by %, if you have Curative Undertow mod in Hydroid then any pools generated by Hydroid will heal you but will get consumed after you leave it.

Loki, when Loki cast Decoy while in Invisibility he gains extra seconds, half of the Decoy duration is added to invis, but he losses stealth bonus.

 

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1 hour ago, LunarEdge7 said:

The only ones I agree with out of all of them is Limbo, Nekros, and Ember 's passives. The others are either silly, or too OP to be a passive.

Like your Vauban passive suggestion, hek, mind as well make that as another one of his abilities.

Loki having that passive will mean that he can no longer properly stealth through missions, what with his decoy being there and all. If Ash is the ninja as you stated, he should get the x10 wall latch. But would other players like that? Don't think so.

I'm still considering about that Oberon passive suggestion. I think forever is too OP, honestly..

I think Volt should have both built-in Retribution and the passive that they're about to give him.

Your Banshee passive idea just.. doesn't sound right to me. (Huehue punny) She already can lockdown the whole place or stun them with her abilities.. I'm unsure of this suggestion tbh.

Glad you like some of them bud, but yeah some where just on the top of my head to be honest, so yeah they whuold be lol

As for Vauban, eh I tought it shuold be so, or as a passive together, so like a free but better spector, better AI etc. 

Loki meh, it feels off him getting such, but like I said, I rarely use wall-lach, so pfft, he can have it all he wants.

Oberon, overall is a bad passive, tho what I done was to make well, better, 20 secs of what?, bad AI?, I do hope this gets changed.

Volt, I agree with you!, that sounds wonderful.

 

For Banshee, I apologize, I will be making a rework idea for her and this will be the reason why I made this passive, but I agree with you, this might be a little odd at first, once the concept is up, I'll email you, or just keep a eye out for my reworks, they are not hard to find lol. 

My Ash one got quite alot of likes

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3 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

First of all, what are you attempting to do? You don't need infinite WL. Second, that trick doesn't work. The timer is cumulative with all the wall-latches. It doesn't reset till you touch the ground.

I never said loki "needs"  infinite latch time. I just think it would be a more meaningful passive if it did. Not having to worry about falling off the wall would be nice. I was not aware of the second part of your post.

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Very disapointed, but nyx passive is just a insult to anyone who have a little bit of brains.

DE, MOVE ASIDE from that NYX-LOKI competition, you should NOT do that passive for nyx, instead you should REWORK irradiationg disarm augment, so loki doesn't gonna come in to nyx territory, da kela is wrong with you, stop blending chaos and disarm together for hek sake, let unique warframes be unique.

I really don't wanna more 2 variations of the same irradiating chaos but in one case with more duration, in second with a guarantee disarm, but you keep expaning it for god know what reason.

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Vauban bonus armor kinda useless I think, since Vauban have a low base armor Normal/Prime : 50/100

which the bonus will not be much more useful, better change to something more useful like enemies that touched by vauban skill will drop ammo more than normal, adding chance 50% sounds good.

 

Edited by Aventador92

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