The Temporary Future of Warframe Trials

[aligatorno]

2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

 

Do I think DE needs to give some love to the vets, yes, we need 'something' that actually challenges us rather than is basically a time sink like the eidolons (they're not hard, they just take time) and in all honesty the rewards aren't exactly that good even with the arcanes. 

Eidolons can be challenging, just don't use 4x buffers to get overkill damage. No matter what they throw at us, once the meta squad is developed everyone will use it and then they'll complain that it's too easy. 

[Firetempest]

1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

I dont feel alienated...

This. Free to plays always need a influx of new players as "VeTerANs" get bored because they cheesed all the latest content in a few days and go off on hiatus.

Also, Wah, its a power fantasy game and I have too much power

[ThorienKELL]

Oh great. Another one of those "sky is falling /everybody is leaving" post. Even worse, it's motivated by "I am special Snowflake, only I should have these nice toys!" Forget it champ. Warframe is ever changing and evolving game very dependant on inflow of new players. And yes, I am hardcore vet myself and I don't care, let people have it all. It's not about the "veterancy" but rather about healthy gaming attitude.

[sleepychewbacca]

I have done a total of 100+ raids since I started playing. Raids being removed sucks, I completely disagree with the decision, as well as a few other things we had to the game recently. 

However, I won't say that DE is out of touch with their older community. For the most part, and despite the frustrations I have had with the direction of Warframe, I have always enjoyed the general content of the game, and that's my opinion. Things get disrupted, the playerbase adapts and we move on. This too shall pass. If we survived Vivergate, we can survive this. I won't swear off Warframe, but if I do get frustrated, I'll take a break, and maybe play a new game for a while so that when I come back, it'll feel new and fresh, and there'll be lots to do. 

But it is an unexpected change, and one that will take time getting used to. I think the issue here is that the uncertainty of what's going to happen is making some of us respond in ways we wouldnt, and the fact that the responses are what one wouldnt like to hear is just making things more... conflicted. It's a free game, and for that I do feel pleased with what has been given. 

[kicsikorte]

Please don't speak on the behalf of every veteran players.

As a veteran myself, I hated raids to the guts. It was always hard to rally together enough people form our small guild to do the raids (I preferred to go with peoples I know not with pugs). Not to mention, that it took so much time to clear a raid, and at the end we got some unusable arcane.
Now we can kill 5-6 teralyst in one nigh, it feels more rewarding than any raid I've ever been on before.
Also " tetralyst drop all the things of value in the game"? Have you looked at the drop table of the teralyst, before you wrote this down? That poor thing barely drops anything usable. The good stuff comes from the gantulyst and hydrolyst. I'd like to see those new players, who can kill all three eidolons in one night.

One thing, that I don't get is, why are these so called "veteran" players envy, that it's easier to aquire valulted/prime frames (is it really easier or just different kind)? I have all the primes, I grinded for them, back when we had to use void keys. Does this bother me? Absolutely f**** no, I couldn't care less. Let people have their desired warframes. Not to mention, that if someone really wants a warframe, they'll just buy it for plat, skipping all the farming.
Or this is want bothers so many "veteran" players, that they can't sell warframes and arcanes for totally ridiculous prices? Who knows.

[Tellakey]

1 hour ago, Ksaero said:

Hope for Tau. Who knows how long we'll have to wait for that, but it's very unlikely that Umbra has anything to do with end-game content.

In keeping with the main quest tradition of implementing new ways to enhance your operator, I believe Umbra, like its predecessors, will include a new mechanic equivalent to an end-game grind. It does seem that Umbra takes it in a new direction, though, so I'm not sure as to how operator-oriented it would actually be.

[Atekron]

2 hours ago, WolfTitan said:

Raids are an important component of the game upon which many communities were build.

not true

raids community, although really passionate and dedicated, are very small and marginal, overwhelming majority of players never did and not going to do raids in a form wich they were implemented in Warframe, as a result such ridiculous high prices for arcane sets

 

[EndermanBeast]

Amazing. Every word you just said was wrong.

Raids will be reborn, soon^TM.

New players don’t have the skill, weapons, mods or knowledge to be able to kill an Eidolon, let alone be able to kill them all.

And I am not alienated.

^{_{If anyone gets this reference... yay.}}

 

 

[(XBOX)Soulchilde]

I just glad I can finally start acquiring Arcanes without spending 1K in plat minimum on console.  That market is about to crash

[Recel]

Personally, I don't feel alienated by DE. I feel alienated by the players who run Eidolons. I actually don't own any of the Eidolon meta frames, they didn't really interest me. And so, the few times I tried an Eidolon run, either I was straight up refused, or the group just evaporated around me.

Maybe one day I'll be able to hunt an Eidolon, but honestly, I don't feel like trying much for now.

[Hypernaut1]

Getting rid of raids is a veteran focused change for me. I can start caring about arcanes again... After all these years. 

Raids were not veteran content. There were just a test of patience and routine. I did more of them as a newer player than i ever did as a vet.

[Leland_Gaunt]

I don't feel alienated. In fact, I like the Eidolons and what they drop. Makes Quills rep & focus a lot less grindy and I do like the fact that they drop arcanes too (I've never liked the raids myself so I haven't bothered with them).

I don't mind that new players have a little easier time getting stuff than I did when I started in '13. It's not like that takes anything away from me. They will still have to farm all the resources, rep, progress through MR, build weapons etc. like before if they want to progess in this game. It's just a lot more comfortable than it was, and that's totally fine.

Me, I can do whatever I want in the game as there is nothing that I need pressingly, I don't mind that kind of freedom. It's good to know that when there will be new stuff, I can build it right away not having to care about getting the resources. New players don't have that. That is our kind of luxury. How does that measure up against having to farm for literally every single thing you want/need? I think the first is the much more enjoyable situation.

[SneakyErvin]

Only thing you kinda have a point on OP is Arcanes, the other things were just as available, or even more available earlier.

With so many arcanes around a change had to be done for the better to spread them to a wider audience. There are still many bad ones and the grind is still very real in order to get the ones you want..

Now, when it comes to the other things you are dead wrong, sadly you claim to be a vet yet dont see the difference in how it was prior to one of the more recent patches. When PoE released there was no requirement to enter except having done the starter quest. So in light of that, you complaining and saying vaulted relics are easier to get is simply not true. They are harder to get now for new players since they need to reach MR5 (iirc) to even be able to do the highest bounty in the plains. At MR5 you also have enough gear at your disposal aswell as a high chance of having done all the main stories for the operator to be useful in the eidolon fights.

And you can claim complexity all you want when it comes to raids, but it is sadly all just an illusion like in most non-trinity (not the frame) games. Given the speed it takes to clear them, complexity is certainly not the word we should use to describe them. The same pile of dung arguments were present in Marvel Heroes, it had the same simplistic raids, but because they were raids they had to obviously be "the end-game". Never mind that Danger Room and other harder aspects of the game were there, raids were still the place with the most exclusive loot, yet provided some of the most trivial tasks and encounters.

Only game that hasnt been trinity based where I've enjoyed raid encounters was GW2. And only trinity game where I've really enjoyed raid encounters was DaoC. WoW was ok but nothing spectacular while most non-trinity games have been utter trainwrecks of gimmicks and pointlessness.

[-Temp0-]

В 01.03.2018 в 15:53, bad4youLT сказал:

I dont see how new players can take down eidolons , if I see one in squad I leave ( no offense ) but time is precious and I want to do 2 triodolon runs per night 

2 per night... that's cute.

Цитата

hey DE you guys are really making a mistake by having the tetralyst drop all the things of value in the game and its alienating your veteran players who have worked so hard to obtain focus, arcanes , ostron standing, quillstanding

No it doesn't.

Цитата

They can be carried, however this is no different to a noob being carried through a raid. Hyperbole.

Only getting carried through a raid is infinetely easier, some like to take their scrubby friends that even afk during raids on a daily basis and no one even pays attention.

In Eidolon in a somewhat serious group aiming for 3-4x3 captures no one would even tolerate a "noob" because he will handicap everyone.

[Voltage]

3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

No, new players cannot kill Eidolons. In order for a new player to fight an Eidolon they need to complete TWW.

They can be carried, however this is no different to a noob being carried through a raid. Hyperbole.

Ostron standing hasn't changed, so hyperbole.

Vaulted Relics are in arguably higher level missions than before. Instead of getting Axi from level 40 planets on the star chart you have to fight level 50-60 enemies. How is that catering to noobs? Hyperbole. 

Eidolons have open match making, and raids do not have this. New players cannot get into raids easily because they need to contact a host and the host has to decide if they can join. Eidolons on the other hand can be joined through the bounty screen and if an MR 9 with a Volt Prime and a good build comes in, you might not be able to tell he hasn't done the War Within unless you checked his profile etc.

In the past few weeks they haven't, but since the release of PoE and months afterwards, DE has made it progressively easier to farm reputation. When the Plains released, you couldn't repeat bounties, you couldn't get rewards per bounty part, and you were basically forced to fish in order to hit your daily cap effectively.

Last time I checked, a Bounty capture mission takes far less time than 4 waves of Xini interception. Relics from bounties are so easy to get compared to traditional relic farms. Level 50 is still low level by the way :).

OP: I wouldn't say players are alienated, and the people who feel annoyed are a minority. However, down right removing content just because the majority don't play it is a sign of cowardice and negligence for their game. The Conclave community shouldn't be given the finger because most people don't enjoy it. Archwing shouldn't be removed because most people don't enjoy it.

I hated the Pacifism Defect, and I know many players that hated it too. It was also shown on reddit to be the most hated gamemode. Should we remove that too even though yes, there are people who like it?

When a majority do not like a game mode, that is a sign that there needs to be changes made. I understand DE is all about half baked systems and waiting years to fix them (Focus Convergence anyone?), but down right removing content is the easy way out and the lazy way out. 

The reason most people don't do raids is because it takes time to organize people (usually within your time zone) and it requires competent players. You have to be an attentive and listening player who also communicates effectively on what is going on. Raids were the one mission that had real coordination. 

The arguement that Eidolons have coordination is a load of crap. Why? Because you can do an Eidolon fight with absolutely no communication. When you are in a raid, someone needs to waypoint/talk/type where a puzzle button is, someone has to talk/type when the core is clear of electricity. Someone has to talk/type/waypoint spores in The Jordas Verdict. You can maybe get away with no comms in JV, but definitely not the Law or Retribution.

The argument that Raids are mind-numbing is completely 100% true, but so is a large portion of Warframe. Doing your 500th+ sortie is about as mind-numbing as it gets.

Stop with these raid threads people. They just breed with players who have no raids completed and act like they know everything there is to a raid and how the community behind it is.

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

New players cannot get into raids easily because they need to contact a host

They can host it themselves. Which happens more often than you might think.

They can also find a high mr friend that will host and leech like there's no tomorrow. Leeching in public raids is a part of the reasons I've come to hate them. Everyone's trying to get an easier role and leech away/do as little as possible, not even bothering to bring energy pads or anything.

Yeah I don't think i'll miss raids.

Цитата

Doing your 500th+ sortie is about as mind-numbing as it gets.

At least sortie is different each time.

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

At least sortie is different each time.

Trials are different too. The puzzle can change each run, the consoles change location, and the bomb in last stage spawns in different places. Technically every mission is different because enemies spawn in different places, but fundamentally they are the same.

[(PSN)thowed]

This is basically a stealth complain topic that new players can obtain things.  How does it hurt your enjoyment because new players can farm things?  Probably because it hurt your plat flow.  That's what all these topics boil down to.

[phoenix1992]

Strange.

Everyone is part of the raider community and can tell you how toxic they are.
Everyone has played the game since 2013.
Everyone hates being misrepresented in the forum.


How does this happen?

[DeMonkey]

13 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Eidolons have open match making, and raids do not have this. New players cannot get into raids easily because they need to contact a host and the host has to decide if they can join. Eidolons on the other hand can be joined through the bounty screen and if an MR 9 with a Volt Prime and a good build comes in, you might not be able to tell he hasn't done the War Within unless you checked his profile etc.

Mmkay? As far as I'm aware people who care about super efficient runs premake a party so that they have control over who joins anyway. The people who don't care as much are going to be the same people who let MR9 Volts into their raids. I.e. Not much has actually changed.

13 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

In the past few weeks they haven't, but since the release of PoE and months afterwards, DE has made it progressively easier to farm reputation. When the Plains released, you couldn't repeat bounties, you couldn't get rewards per bounty part, and you were basically forced to fish in order to hit your daily cap effectively.. 

This a benefit to both old and new players. Ostron standing hasn't changed in a way that alienates older players. Didn't realise I had to spell it out.

13 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Last time I checked, a Bounty capture mission takes far less time than 4 waves of Xini interception. Relics from bounties are so easy to get compared to traditional relic farms. Level 50 is still low level by the way :).

You are correct, this however also benefits newer and older players. Unless of course you're selfish enough to want every player to go through the same grind as we did in the past. Bit petty, but I'm not surprised. Regardless, earning relics faster isn't DE alienating older players. Smug smiley face is unwarranted when your point is irrelevant. Level 50 is still higher than you have to go for Axi relics on the star chart.

I dunno Voltage. Seems like you're salty and want everyone to struggle earning new stuff. Should we not have told DE that earning standing in Cetus was a ballache so that everyone else suffers the same ballache?

2 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Trials are different too. The puzzle can change each run, the consoles change location, and the bomb in last stage spawns in different places. Technically every mission is different because enemies spawn in different places, but fundamentally they are the same.

Are you being serious?

You think that minor puzzle alterations and bomb spawns are comparable to varying mission types, factions and restrictions? Hilarious.

[Serafinia]

I don't know others but I am not feel as "Veteran" the feel bored because I play when I wish to play and not forcing myself to grinding anything in game. I let times to myself to play the game when have mood to play it and not bored at all because I am 1. Not using cheesy metholds to do something and 2. I have a lot to do because my play time is relatively limited and my mood and my free time limit when I can or want to play so I play only when can/want.

The recent changes are both can be good and bad of course the devs wanted from us to play their game so they try to limiting where we would go and play otherwise if they design a bad content noone will play that just to play it. They can use force or actually make the game challenging but not too hard and the players can enjoy it. This is always a hard thing in the development because you don't know really what will works and what is not. They trying to expand and follow patterns which possibly can improve their business because they work for money too just like everyone of us whom eligible to work.

The repetitiveness is an issue with games like warframe because if you thinking on a way it is a work and you want every shinies as fast as possible then it is guaranteed you will be burn out. If you take it slower it will last longer. New players always needs to keep the game alive but also veterans needs because they can give feedback and help to newer players. 

Nothing special happens just what happend with the derelict missions. They added the mutagen hunt there to play the derelict and the kavat dna too. There need some reason to play the said mission and if not works then they do more drastic changes.

[SilentMobius]

4 hours ago, krimit said:

hey DE you guys are really making a mistake by having the tetralyst drop all the things of value in the game and its alienating your veteran players

Founder here, have everything, not alienated.

Seriously, we played the game, and got some stuff, just because other players play different stuff in the same game to get stuff we got much much later than we got it is not a reason to complain.

Have you never bought something on sale? How would you feel if everyone who bought a sale item for the full price was spitting venom and calling it "unfair"?

The fact we fought through some janky mechanics doesn't make us special, it's good that the newer players have a smoother experience than we did. 

Just chill, let them play the game

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Uhm... I would consider myself a veteran that never set a foot in trails other than to humor friends. Arcanes were something I always ignored out of principle, because I'm not going to try and get something without playing for it first. Trails were unsoloable, Eidolons definitely are(and pretty fun IMO). Now that trails are being removed and their rewards have become available to not just to veterans who were okay with the forced coop but those who weren't as well I actually caught myself looking up with arcanes I would like to get - years after their introduction.

The exact same thing happened in an old CO-RPG(Guild Wars) I was playing religiously. Endgame content that forced a minimum number of players above the number of AI companions you could bring to fill out their spots was off limits until the dev increased the number of AI you could bring to a mission. Running a 12 man raid alone with 7 bots wasn't as smooth as in a group, and there was lots of microing to do, but it was fun. It took the pressure of having to be forced into a specific role, allowed you to hook up with random other people that happened to run with bots as well, and in general felt more relaxed and enjoyable. I still did a few runs with full groups here and there, but it was because I wanted to, not because I had to. Tryhard elites would still be able to acquire rewards in greater numbers, and I was completely fine with that. It left me with the option to spend more time and arguably effort soloing the content or do it more efficiently at the cost of sacrificing my personal playstyle. That's why I really like how Eidolon fights are designed.

If the new trials are forcing coop and introducing new stat relevant rewards, I'll just be ignoring those until some day in the future when they'll become available to other players. Raid type content never agreed with me in any game, because on one side the higher player count it makes what you do less important, and if they're so unforgiving that their contribution becomes crucial one member of that group being able to frack over the entire squad with one mistake creates apprehensiveness, which in return fosters elitism that results in things like gear checks, player blacklists and toxicity during play.

[Voltage]

15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Mmkay? As far as I'm aware people who care about super efficient runs premake a party so that they have control over who joins anyway. The people who don't care as much are going to be the same people who let MR9 Volts into their raids. I.e. Not much has actually changed.

This a benefit to both old and new players. Ostron standing hasn't changed in a way that alienates older players. Didn't realise I had to spell it out.

You are correct, this however also benefits newer and older players. Unless of course you're selfish enough to want every player to go through the same grind as we did in the past. Bit petty, but I'm not surprised. Regardless, earning relics faster isn't DE alienating older players. Smug smiley face is unwarranted when your point is irrelevant. Level 50 is still higher than you have to go for Axi relics on the star chart.

I dunno Voltage. Seems like you're salty and want everyone to struggle earning new stuff. Should we not have told DE that earning standing in Cetus was a ballache so that everyone else suffers the same ballache?

Are you being serious?

You think that minor puzzle alterations and bomb spawns are comparable to varying mission types, factions and restrictions? Hilarious.

I clearly stated that there is no alienation. I believe OP is wrong as well. 

You said Ostron Standing hasn't changed, I made my counter argument that it has. Did I say it was a bad change? I like getting standing faster and so does everyone else.

You claimed that new players can't do Eidolons. I proved you wrong because you can join through pubs. You can't get carried in a raid unless the host doesn't care or you already talked to them. In Eidolons, you are forced to carry the pub who joined without an amp or leave.

Relics dropping from bounties make it easier for everyone, and you can do bounties through public matchmaking. It caters to noobs as well as older players. Again, did I say that I don't like this and that faster relics are a bad change?

Technically every mission is different; fundamentally they get repetitive. Of course sorties change more than a Raid. I am pointing out that everything in this game becomes repetitive and calling Trials mind-numbing is correct but so are many other parts of this game. Everyone has different opinions and not everyone likes what everyone else likes.

Stop making it sound like I am the bad guy. You are taking words out of context to fit your hatred towards me. It's fine. The more people hate me, the more I know that I am not the classic forum shill saying "THX DE" on every patch note. Have a great day. 

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

You claimed that new players can't do Eidolons. I proved you wrong because you can join through pubs

Just because they can join doesn't mean they will make it even to the 2nd Eidolon.

The usual pattern is this - if Eidolon pug takes too long, someone aborts. That can lead to all members leaving eventually.

Цитата

 You can't get carried in a raid

Don't make me laugh.

How many raids have you done with pugs to even begin saying that? My worst memory of such is mr20+ Vauban with 20+ records in LoR not knowing what pads are and where consoles are running around like a headless chicken until we told him what to do.

In JV it's "normal" if half of the group has no clue how to do a 3rd stage. Despite doing them 20 to 100 times. Also I would count as getting carried if you never touch any console and only ever play something like slow nova and ever only press one button.

Yes you can leech and get carried you can and people get carried everywhere all the time.