Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

[Methanoid]

[Annnoth]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Huggs93 said:

Man your gonna hate me I kill him solo on level 40-50 missions take me about 2 to 5 minutes

Honestly that still sounds like way too long to me even if its considered a "good time".

Thats straight up double your mission length for a random spawn which sometimes the mission wont even end unless you fight him. Pacing is an important part of momemt to moment action and thats just a giant wedge in the entire concept for something where 80% of the time you wont even get anything worth while as well as being horribly dull to even fight mechanically.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Once again - a perfect thread illustrating why DE needs to find a way to separate the players across different content, keep players who are incapable of higher level content away from it, or perhaps they should state publicly "While DE strives stop make all content AVAILABLE to all players, DE does NOT strive to make all ACHIEVABLE to all players."

as it stands however, they have stated his spawn chances.  The OP and others have clearly faced him more than once.  Knowing what it takes to beat him, they know the risks (and rewards or lack there of) of going in ill prepared.  And if it is taking the 20-30 minutes of "fairly well coordinated" effort, I would simply say the effort is not well, nor coordinated. 

[Randomdudu_K]

12 minutes ago, Dark_Chroma_Prime said:

I like wolf much more than any other bosses/ special units, unlike them he doesn't have some dump healthgates or is harder because some damn drone is linking some piece of garbage

...So you prefer an assassin who's just a boring bullet sponge? Not Shadow Stalker who has the unique mechanic of damage resistances of Sentients,or the Grustrag Three that punish you for dying?

[Randomdudu_K]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Once again - a perfect thread illustrating why DE needs to find a way to separate the players across different content, keep players who are incapable of higher level content away from it, or perhaps they should state publicly "While DE strives stop make all content AVAILABLE to all players, DE does NOT strive to make all ACHIEVABLE to all players."

as it stands however, they have stated his spawn chances.  The OP and others have clearly faced him more than once.  Knowing what it takes to beat him, they know the risks (and rewards or lack there of) of going in ill prepared.  And if it is taking the 20-30 minutes of "fairly well coordinated" effort, I would simply say the effort is not well, nor coordinated. 

like I said,Wolf requires quite a specific build,and the 20-30 minutes was coordination of luring Wolf into a less troublesome area, spawning of multiple specters, and the whole thing is just dull,mundane and boring,and if you're unlucky,you'll run out of ammo before the wolf dies

[Randomdudu_K]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Once again - a perfect thread illustrating why DE needs to find a way to separate the players across different content, keep players who are incapable of higher level content away from it, or perhaps they should state publicly "While DE strives stop make all content AVAILABLE to all players, DE does NOT strive to make all ACHIEVABLE to all players."

as it stands however, they have stated his spawn chances.  The OP and others have clearly faced him more than once.  Knowing what it takes to beat him, they know the risks (and rewards or lack there of) of going in ill prepared.  And if it is taking the 20-30 minutes of "fairly well coordinated" effort, I would simply say the effort is not well, nor coordinated. 

like I said,Wolf requires quite a specific build,and the 20-30 minutes was coordination of luring Wolf into a less troublesome area, spawning of multiple specters, and the whole thing is just dull,mundane and boring,and if you're unlucky,you'll run out of ammo before the wolf dies

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

11 minutes ago, Randomdudu_K said:

...So you prefer an assassin who's just a boring bullet sponge? Not Shadow Stalker who has the unique mechanic of damage resistances of Sentients,or the Grustrag Three that punish you for dying?

You mean that super (sarcasm sigm)unique mechanic which can be canceled by using your operator, or just killing him with the operator alone?

And G3 is just a joke, you shoot at them, they die. I already let them capture me, build the key thing to unlock this chain thing and finished. Nothing is special about it. Zanuka ist quite the same, just with some stealth. Yeah so much wow, so much amaze(sarcasm sign)!!

[Mr.SpookSpook]

53 minutes ago, Randomdudu_K said:

Like I said, Radiation is a meh damage type,and you have to do a great deal of preparation for a boss who just randomly shows up
I'll quote my original post
"So you'd need to bring a specific type of build that's only good against 1, maybe 1 and a half faction,because Wolf's decided to spawn and #*!% you over"

You don't have to build your entire frame and arsenal for fighting the wolf. I've just reserved my secondary slot for a Radiation knell, and pretty much any frame I play with I can blast Wolf back to hell with Knell. Wolf spawns so rarely that I doubt you are really consistently getting"f.ed over" by him. In many mission types you can also just ignore him and extract.

Last time he spawned into a void tileset. Moved into an orokin laser and died in 2 seconds... Couldn't even hit him...

Edited April 29, 2019 by Mr.SpookSpook

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

18 minutes ago, Randomdudu_K said:

like I said,Wolf requires quite a specific build,and the 20-30 minutes was coordination of luring Wolf into a less troublesome area, spawning of multiple specters, and the whole thing is just dull,mundane and boring,and if you're unlucky,you'll run out of ammo before the wolf dies

Specific Build: No he doesnt

Specific Frame: No he doesnt

20-30 minutes of luring? If it takes 20-30 minutes you are doing it wrong and are not prepared.  And by "prepared" I don't mean that you had to bring a specific build or weapon - there are tons of weapons and frames that work fine.  It didn't even take 10 minutes to kill the PRENERF wolf at level 106 on a kuva flood survival After life support ran out because it stops spawning on kuva floods - ie our entire team was running around with 5 health.  And none of us had planned for his arrival, nor even given a second thought to our loadouts pre mission.

Now, there are some things I will agree with you about vis-a-vis his "difficulty"

• It feels inconsistent with the rest of the game.  And I mean the entirety of the rest of the game.  Stalker is too easy.  Zanuka is a joke.  G3 is closer to what I think "fits" with the rest of the game - so given there is only one of him but he has his minions, setting him around G3 feels about right.
• The rewards are garbage versus the effort.  There are a lot of ways I could see to change it:
  • lower his HP by  half and keep the "reward" table
  • keep his HP, but guarantee a weapon part (and evenly distribute the weapon parts), AND lower his spawn rate. 
  • Don't have the spawn rate high enough to farm him - just state "We don't expect players to quickly acquire his weapons, but expect players to get it from just playing the game over the course of two or three years"
• change the mechanics a bit - HE should be invulnerable until you kill his minions, not the the other way around.  by themselves, they are generally beefy enough, but not so much so that that should last too long.  Or another idea would be to have his current damage reduction/health pool etc stay as is - but only so long as his minions are alive. so as you dispatch them, he gets weaker, his damage reduction lessened.  You weaken the pack.

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by (XB1)Tucker D Dawg

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

"*massive stuck up sounding snort*

HA! you CLEARLY were not bringing the correct gear/obnoxious meta item specifically to deal with the 6% chance of a wolf! you are clearly a "needs to GitGud noobscrub" that has no place playing warframe!"

---

ok yes this is sarcasm and i actually agree with OP, as while i can bring Valkyr and kill in under a minute on hydron the idea of having to always bring a response to one specific and extremely situational boss is tiresome... i am genuinely tired of this "well you should be more prepared" response.

like everything in this post.

 

but what i find truly insulting... is the utter lack of reward the wolf gives..

If you are tired of "be a bit more prepared, so you can whine less about being unprepared" maybe give it a try. 

I literally quoted someone claiming that one of the more powerful cheese frames for dealing with the wolf, wasn't any good. That suggests that they have no clue as to what they are talking about, and other newbs may see that nonsense and actually believe it. 

And the other person I quoted has been active enough on the forums, screeching about this whole event in so many places that it's beyond the realm of reasonable doubt that they haven't seen posts explaining what tactics work, outside of "so radiation is the only way to hurt him, this is the BS". 

Now the most recent part I've quoted seems to show someone who would apparently rather have their challenges nerfed because a strong enemy that doesn't die in a single shot breaks the power fantasy, and anyone pointing out how dealing with him is far from impossible, needs to be shut down. 

So please, if you don't want the grapes that's fine, but pretending that they're sour, isn't really helping you any. 

 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Everyone complains about his rewards being bad, and yet also mention the awful drop chances.

No one else sees the joke here?

[SneakyErvin]

11 hours ago, QuantumTsume said:

Well the people that have problems with our dear doggo here either don't have that kind of equipment, I personally don't have a kavat after >1100h because they're a pain in the arse to get a hold of, and more importantly you have to think about the part of the community that doesn't collect OHK weapons like nanospores because they aren't that far into the gayum. Problems don't arise when doggo spawns on Venus but when you quick-level a weapon on Hydron or Helene, and he John Cena's your 300hp frost wielding his trusty *insert MR fodder*, or you try to grind something with a specialised frame in the upper Starchart and suddenly your Ember(rest in peace) or Ivara or I dunno ... Volt?. So you pull out your Imperator Vandal jumping in circles waiting for this lvl 76 sponge to either bite the dust after way too long or either get rng-nuked by his russian mashed potatoes with Molotov's, or get involuntarily get roundhouse slammed back into the Industrial Age. 

And even if you were to get him dead his drop pool feels like it's idol is anthem but it overshot like a mortar used as a cqc weapon. So I'm personally annoyed with the wolf as after he did went to Detroit to become sentient he, for me, never dropped anything worth 1min of my day, much less 30. May be my horrible RNG but when I first encountered him it took me roughly 5mins solo downing him at ~30 but since his level seems to be roughly=(current level of stage-starting level of stage)/2+starting level of stage+30(warning pulled out of my arse just what I feel could be a guesstimate).you hopefully can see where I'm coming from.

TL;DR: Wolf Succ in post Saturn missions when unprepared aka 90% of play

And the people that have those problems should have the problems because he isnt designed to be another push over that dies to a sneeze from an unleveled whatever. It is about priorities, as the game goes on certain things will be needed for certain situations. It is the core of WF, you pick the proper tool for the task at hand. The people which dont do that simply arent ment to kill him effectively.

Ivara can also be built around heavy radiation and crit, along with perma stealth. She is extremely deadly versus wolf if you skip the overrated concentrated arrow mod (it pretty much gimps your single target potential to 1/10th of what it should be).

And there are so many options for good radiation damage that there really is no excuse to not bring one single itty bitty weapon at all time just in case the game cries wolf.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Why would you bring a rubico to fight lephantis? Was it a sniper only condition?

I wonder the same and no it was Fire today.

Few things beat a high RoF corrosive Dex Pixia or Pyrana Prime.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Wolf should probably change his name to "Saltlord of Saturn Six" with how much people hate him.

actively trying to farm him is only going to lead to burnout. I'm waiting on Jupiter Remastered to see if he gets a dedicated boss node, or just becomes another kind of Assassin.

[zoffmode]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

And the people that have those problems should have the problems because he isnt designed to be another push over that dies to a sneeze from an unleveled whatever. It is about priorities, as the game goes on certain things will be needed for certain situations. It is the core of WF, you pick the proper tool for the task at hand. The people which dont do that simply arent ment to kill him effectively.

Ivara can also be built around heavy radiation and crit, along with perma stealth. She is extremely deadly versus wolf if you skip the overrated concentrated arrow mod (it pretty much gimps your single target potential to 1/10th of what it should be).

And there are so many options for good radiation damage that there really is no excuse to not bring one single itty bitty weapon at all time just in case the game cries wolf.

Warframe is designed that you pick proper tools for proper missions. Not that it's random missions and enemies and you just have to be prepared. Spy missions don't randomly turn into interceptions. Tridolons don't suddenly appear out on nowhere in your capture mission.

Only Wolf break this rule. Of course people will be annoyed and complain about it. It doesn't take much to figure that out.

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, zoffmode said:

Warframe is designed that you pick proper tools for proper missions. Not that it's random missions and enemies and you just have to be prepared. Spy missions don't randomly turn into interceptions. Tridolons don't suddenly appear out on nowhere in your capture mission.

Only Wolf break this rule. Of course people will be annoyed and complain about it. It doesn't take much to figure that out.

I'm not sure what your point is. No one claimed that mission types change (although some do). The point is simply that Wolf is part of the game now, you can either ignore that fact and not bring a tool for him, or you can bring a tool and defeat him.

Also not, he isnt the one breaking the rule, because that rule isnt a rule. Power creep made up that "rule" because the things breaking that "rule" were already there in the shape of other assassins before power creep trivialized them. Stalker, G3, Zanuka and even Manics were deadly if you were ill equipped, so were ambulas at a point in time. Wolf just happens to be the only current assassin designed to actually counter the power creep somewhat. He is still a trivial enemy that poses little threat.

[SamMitter]

While it doesnot really feel bad to have a tough enemy.... But the loot actually needs to be upgraded. I have fought him over 10 times now, only once I got any wolf sledge part.

additionally, if you dont have a well equipped team with you, it makes things very difficult.

 

[Mr.SpookSpook]

25 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Everyone complains about his rewards being bad, and yet also mention the awful drop chances.

No one else sees the joke here?

You do not see the point that most of the rewards are bad and the good (yet underwhelming) reward has low drop chances. The two go together...

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Randomdudu_K said:

Now I absolutely hate the Wolf to no end.
I do like his concept,but his execution is...just god awful

1) He's way too #*!%ing tanky
He has a S#&$ton of armor,and his health is also armor, and enough armor to have a damage reduction of over 80%. And there's no way to remove and even lower it. 

2) His weakness is too specific
He has a weakness of Radiation,sure. But you need a very specific Radiation Crit weapon...and Radiation is a meh damage type.
Radiation is only good against Grineer and half of the Corrupted, it doesn't do much against Corpus and terrible against Infested
So you'd need to bring a specific type of build that's only good against 1, maybe 1 and a half faction,because Wolf's decided to spawn and #*!% you over

3) His Drop Table is absolutely terrible
Now Tempo Royale is good,and he does have the highest drop chance of Tempo Royale,but everything else is just...why
Imagine spending almost 20 minutes,maybe even 30 minutes, taking down a big #*!% off Wolf,not being equipped with Radiation because it won't be much help to the mission
Spending so much time and requiring a fair amount of coordination, and then being rewarded with...MOLTEN IMPACT...for the 5th time...

his other drops are fine,no real need to change that

1. Wrong, Kavats removes it in no time.

2. Specific to radiation damage yes. But there are plenty of good crit radiation choices. And most of the heavy hitting radiation weapons insta kill corpus and infested to begin with, so it doesnt matter if the damage type is ill-optimized for them. It also only requires you to use 1 slot for it. Do you really need primary, secondary, melee and warframe dedicated to take care of either one Wolf or one faction for that matter? No you dont. So you can easily spare one slot for Wolf. Titania, Excal, Valkyr and Ivara are great choices to handle Wolf and leave the rest of your loadout alone. Outside of that you have Lanka, Rubico and Vectis that are good primaries for Wolf, for secondary you have kitguns and a few other options.

3. He shouldnt take 20 to 30 minutes if you bring just a few correct items for the job. I dont think I've seen him last over 2 minutes yet, solo or in group. His drop table is pretty bad though.

He isnt designed to be facerolled by people just leveling crap. He is designed to be an actual encounter, something I hope they do with stalker, g3 and zanuka aswell.

[zoffmode]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm not sure what your point is. No one claimed that mission types change (although some do). The point is simply that Wolf is part of the game now, you can either ignore that fact and not bring a tool for him, or you can bring a tool and defeat him.

Also not, he isnt the one breaking the rule, because that rule isnt a rule. Power creep made up that "rule" because the things breaking that "rule" were already there in the shape of other assassins before power creep trivialized them. Stalker, G3, Zanuka and even Manics were deadly if you were ill equipped, so were ambulas at a point in time. Wolf just happens to be the only current assassin designed to actually counter the power creep somewhat. He is still a trivial enemy that poses little threat.

Mission changes are predictable and follow basic if a then b. Wolf is chance based.

My point is that Wolf is bad design. He doesn't counter anything. In fact he forces people to use the powercreep weapons. He only counter common sense. And yes there is a rule. It is implied one.

Also, MR giving you points into weapon even if unleveled was the change responsible for removal of deadliness of old assassins. And that change happened for a reason. People used same argument back then "just carry one good weapon". Should we remove that now and everyone just have one good weapon?

[Softballbryan]

I dunno..... I’m an average player and I when I bring a decent weapon I can kill him in a few minutes with most any frame.. that’s not too bad as far as I’m concerned 😟 

[(PSN)Shustas]

Nobody cares about this bs boss. We empty couple clips of catchmoon and if his healthbar does not move, we disconnect. Shooting a rock in poe is more fun thats this nonsense

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, zoffmode said:

Mission changes are predictable and follow basic if a then b. Wolf is chance based.

My point is that Wolf is bad design. He doesn't counter anything. In fact he forces people to use the powercreep weapons. He only counter common sense. And yes there is a rule. It is implied one.

Also, MR giving you points into weapon even if unleveled was the change responsible for removal of deadliness of old assassins. And that change happened for a reason. People used same argument back then "just carry one good weapon". Should we remove that now and everyone just have one good weapon?

You dont need to use any power creep at all. There are several setups that just melts wolf in no time. Titania, Valkyr, Excal and Ivara can just slap on radiation and call it a day, then you have several sniper rifles all with good options for radiation aswell as kitguns or other secondaries with high crit and melee that can do the same. And it is only 1 out of all your slots that needs to be tailored towards wolf. Meaning it has zero impact on your actual mission, unless for some odd reason your whole loadout is the same.

And since we are talking about a wolf counter and him being weak to radiation there are actually few missions where the same weapon brought to battle the wolf wont be effective for the rest of the mission. Radiation may not be top dog against infested or corpus, it still shreds them easily far up in the levels.

[zoffmode]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You dont need to use any power creep at all. There are several setups that just melts wolf in no time. Titania, Valkyr, Excal and Ivara can just slap on radiation and call it a day, then you have several sniper rifles all with good options for radiation aswell as kitguns or other secondaries with high crit and melee that can do the same. And it is only 1 out of all your slots that needs to be tailored towards wolf. Meaning it has zero impact on your actual mission, unless for some odd reason your whole loadout is the same.

And since we are talking about a wolf counter and him being weak to radiation there are actually few missions where the same weapon brought to battle the wolf wont be effective for the rest of the mission. Radiation may not be top dog against infested or corpus, it still shreds them easily far up in the levels.

I'm sorry you're completely missing the point of everything I just wrote. Same thing happened with Ember conversation. I'm out. This will just go in circles again.

[LSG501]

15 hours ago, nslay said:

I've read a post about Titania killing Wolf in Razorwing mode (apparently Wolf has trouble hitting tiny fairies!), so the exalted weapon Dex Pixia definitely worked at some point unless they patched it! 

 

As of last night dex pixia was still working, I've been running titania while purely in case I run into wolfie.