(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[enemystand]

I would like to sacrifice a weapon to increase the elemental bonus of the same weapon type by 2~5 % each weapon, till they reach the maximum of 60% bonus.

Example you got a Kuva Tonkor with 30% electric bonus and feed it another Kuva Tonkor with 25% electric bonus, to get a Kuva Tonkor with a 32% or 35% electric bonus, the weapon that is getting upgrade should keep their formas and orokin catalyst.

The cost to perform the upgrade should be a reasonable amount of kuva

[Tenno76856]

I like the kuva lich system in general, however a few points :

- Getting the larvaling too early in starchart (should really be level 50+... I mean the mobs start. Around 60+ once your kuva lich is active) , and making the relics semi difficult to get results in lich dropping into missions too early too often to attempt to kill (and if in pub people get pissed off if you dont kill yourself even if you dont have mods to kill lich)

- Stealing of player resources etc - i know you get them back when you kill lich however its really disheartening when you get X wf part or a certain mod drop and see it stolen away - any chance you can let then steal non parts/non gold mod ?

- i like the system and it is a challenge, although who thought of using seer and kraken as kuva weapons... 😕

- as some suggested, if lich has to random drop in mission, pls have a time outperiod where if player doesnt try to kill or outright ignores lich, lich will disappears - it isnt right to kill self and as result raise lich level when u dont have mods..

 

[ViR6USfV]

Kuva Liches

As said before, killing your lich is a complete slog. I've bought the requiem pack and even then it took me around 4 days to convert one. Most of the time was spent running exterminate missions to farm thralls. I would suggest significantly lowering the amount of murmurs needed to get a hint or having some kind of logic behind the kill phrases. If you're worried the liches would be killed too fast, tie their ranks to open relics. This way you'd still get the high level experience w/o altering the dynamic too much.

[...L.u.n.a...]

Kraken

Kraken

Seer

Ayanga

Ayanga

Seer

 

See the pattern?

[Test-995]

Possible kuva (not so) endless missions:

5 minutes of survival, 5 wave of defense, a wave of interception, and 500 cryotics of excavation.

Is it an oversight? 200 is enough, i think.

[RaidenFirewing]

First of all: I'm really enjoying the update so far, but there are a couple of points I'd like to adress about the kuva liches.

Creating a lich: I've heard from multiple people already that they created a lich but didn't want to, and now they have to engage with it even if they don't want to. Right now, it's very easy to create a lich "on accident" with nuker frames. It would be good to make it a more conscious choice, maybe by having to execute your lich precursor to actually create a lich.

Kuva thralls: right now, grinding for murmurs is only possible in these special missions, that award nothing (of note) but said murmurs. I think it would be a good idea to have the thralls spawn in any mission on lich controlled territory, making it possible to "passively" farm them, too. With special missions mainly for clearing their influence on the map. (and maybe increased spawn chance compared to other missions)

Known requiem mods:  continuing on, I think it would be a good idea if the game could recognize when you correctly guess a requiem mod and add it to the known mods. It's pretty frustrating to have figured out a mod by trial and error, just to have the next murmur reveal just that mod.
 

Coming now to the biggest gripe I have with the current system : kuva weapons.

The weapons itself are fine, but I very much dislike the fact that they behave like the Paracesis in terms of mastery. It made sense for the paracesis: its a unique weapon you get from a quest, you can't sell it, it makes sense to invest in it.

But for the kuva weapons, they are supposed to be farmed, multiple times to get the rolls you want. Having to sink 5 forma into a weapon you level for mastery and then get a better one, that you have to sink another 5 forma into is a huge investment. Especially since there are so many of them.

My suggestion is to either limit the mastery gain after level 30, so you can get more points for mods, but not more mastery. Or to unlock level 40 with only one forma. It would still be an investment, but far better than five forma.

I know mastery at this point (once you reach a sufficiently high rank) is mostly just bragging rights. But so far the Modus operandi has been to master all the things to max for the points, since you wouldn't want to "waste" any. This compells people (at least me) to farm the kuva weapons also for mastery, which would add up to ridiculous amounts of forma and grinding.

 

That's all so far, I hope it is helpful and constructive! Again, I very much enjoy the update, but it can always be improved upon.

[Izoroftheundead]

Kuva liches can be attacked by teammates in a 1-2 second window after being downed, causing your Lich to level up and preventing them from being hit with any for of progress on phrases used to kill.

Move over, Kuva Liches can steal the requiem relics from floods and siphons, this is beyond daft to effect no only to effect the only 100% chance of the relic, which is intended, and forces more RNG farming which is purely punishing the player for their time. In all this means that progressing to defeat them is counteracted by them having their tithing systems. 

Kuva liches when assassinated don't fully list their recovered rewards in the mission summary screen, meaning it is impossible to see items such as relics being returned.

Drop changes for tier 2 and 4 requiem relics seem to grossly outweighs the chances for tier 1 and 3 requiem relics. Myself and others have over 6 times as many tier 2 and 4 requiem relics as tier 1 and 3, if we get any tier 1 or 3 at all.

By playing the game, I'm given a punishment mechanic, that actively stops you from trying to resolve the mechanic and gain any rewards, let alone from the mechanic. Its current state means that other players can increase the effect of this mechanic, causing increased punishment rates upon resources picked up by the player

Taxing happens regardless of which tile is selected, either controlled or normal. Whoever has decided to say normal tiles don't tax is wholly wrong. This need clarifying. If it is meant to be like that and is correct, then you need to fix it at you get taxed regardless of what tile is played on.

By playing the game I'm given a punishment mechanic, that actively stops you trying to resolve said punishment mechanic. For investing my time in the game, I'm prevented from obtaining the rewards from it and even the resources to stop that happening. The system is currently allowing players to force other players Liches to level up, further impacting the punishment on them by no fault of their own, even if their trying to finish their Lich off.

 

The concept works. The implementation and actual workings are inherently broken. There is no guaranteed way to not have this happen currently unless you dont play a grineer tile over a certain level. I dont want a punishment mechanic for having played the game. I'll happily not get the Kuva weapons by being punished for playing.

No one wants that. And thats what we got.

 

[ScorchedIce]

Hey! Hello, I've got some feedback i'd like to share about the Kuva Ogris.

Kuva Ogris seems to have lower base damage than regular Ogris and it kinda feels out of place.
Something similar to what happened with Opticor / Opticor Vandal, but there the Vandal makes up with extra crit, crit damage and being overall faster.

The higher status on the Kuva Ogris doesn't really make a difference, regular still easily manages 100% and gets even higher damage, and a 4% increase in crit chance doesn't really make the Kuva variant a crit weapon, so the really hard to get, endgame variant feels really weak, and performs even worse than the normal Ogris.

My suggestion is to either give it more base damage than the regular Ogris and lower a bit the blast radius, or give it better crit stats. I feel like more damage overall would be pretty nice considering it's such a dangerous weapon to the user, and comparing it to other self-damage beasts like the Lenz, for example.

Kuva Ogris also seems bugged, leveling it up on Hydron, it would almost never proc status on enemies, which seemed odd considering its really high base status chance. It would also always proc status on myself when self damage happened.

Thanks for reading!

Edited November 4, 2019 by ScorchedIce
missed a word!

[SprinKah]

- Vanquished Kuva Liches spawn into missions to help you like Converted Kuva Liches

- Animation bugs when doing mercy finishers on Kuva Liches. 

[grindbert]

would be very nice if we could get rid of the rng on the weapons element.

the weapon is rng, the element is rng .... the chance of getting the weapon you want with the element even near the maximum might take months if not years of grinding.

never ever until now have we had an rng element on weapons. i liked that. rolling rivens is enough rng. at least rerolling a riven only costs 3.5k kuva and not half a day of grinding.

 

would also love to have the option to opt out of the whole kuva lich thing. it has been frustratingly annoying the first few times and i really don't care about the weapons as long as they're rng but i get forced to participate just by accidentally killing a larvae or whatever they're called, losing rewards left and right while having no intention to either fight or kill those damn liches.

Edited November 4, 2019 by grindbert

[kuryux]

So at first I felt there was way too much grind involved and too little challenge with kuva lich hunting, but later I realized I might have felt that way because I started by farming all relics and them all possible runes. Once I started actually farming the liches, it felt bareable I guess.

However, after a few hunts, my main concern has become the fact that right at the start of a hunt u know the weapon u will get and if this weapon is something u deffinetely dont want, then the whole process feels like a big chore just to get rid of the lich so u can farm next.

My suggestion: have some way to get rid of the lich earlier. Lets say for example after your first encounter with the lich, in the lich panel would open up an option to bribe it for 1m credits of 5k kuva for example and he would leave taking the bribe and what he stole so we could start farming another that might interest us. Maybe put a limit on how many times we can do this daily, say 1-5 times, so softcores wont have to grind through everything just get some trash he aint interested, while hardcores will have the option to keep trying, but will have to go through the whole process.

Secondly, based on what everyone is saying, converting feels like a big let down. Havent tried tbh, but since u can only have 1, it barely spawns and barely does anything....maybe it could be improved, like if u convert it would have a chance for him to give small rewards like relics, kuva etc, so it would still be an option if u dont want the weapon

Edited November 4, 2019 by kuryux

[Buff00n]

In many Grineer spy vaults Live Wire will shock nearby Sensor Regulators, even through walls, setting off the alarms.  It took me a while to figure out why alarms were going off instantly as soon as I started hacking something.

[Noble-Goggins]

The new weapons which are dropped by the Kuva Lich's should not require 5 forma to fully level, it is a tremendous investment into a weapon which is not likely to see much use. I understand that these are somewhat special weapons which do have some good additions to that weapon.

With the Paracesis, while that in itself was annoying, at least serves a purpose as being one of the few weapons that can easily dispatch sentients, an enemy we're sure to see more of when the New War comes out and of course it being a single weapon on it's own helped a little too.

There are 13 new weapons here, which if you decided to level them all up is 65 forma... rather grindy, and of course all of that is on top of actually getting your Kuva Lich, hoping they have the right weapon and then killing the poor fella which equates to more grind and makes it a chore more than it is fun.

One forma would be more understandable... two is pushing it... 5 is way out.

[Noctly]

I have some thoughts on the Kuva Lich system, so I'll try to break it down by the various aspects of it.

 

Creating your lich.

I like: How clear the game is that a larvling will be presented to you. The transmissions from the Kuva guardians are a nice and clear indicator to the player. That they're marked once they do spawn is a nice bonus.

I don't like: Given the "clear the room as fast as possible" playstyle typical to Warframe, it won't be uncommon for players to kill their larvling accidentally, AOE frames and weapons especially will make it difficult to avoid opting out of the system if the player chooses to. For example, Saryn huge ability to clear large amounts of enemies quickly becomes a disadvantage to the player in level 20+ Grineer areas, where her scaling and armor stripping should, in theory, shine.

Ideas for change: Honestly, this one seems easy to me. Rather than have them converted on death, leave them open to a parazon finisher, and allow that to be what converts them. This way, players can opt out if they like, and it gives a slightly more personal feeling to your lich ("I went out of my way to kill this enemy super hard, and now they're upset about it.").

 

Lich Generation.

I like: That the bonus to their weapon will be affected by the frame you are using in a way that is seemingly consistent. The variance in looks and personality are quite nice, and that they will wear the helmets of your frames is a nice touch.

I don't like: How and who you created them with seems to not really matter, in terms of what their abilities are. I created one with Inaros, and he had a bunch of Ember's fire abilities, I created another with Nekros and it had abilities like Saryn's Miasma. It doesn't feel as personal to your situation as it should.

Ideas for change: I don't know how many abilities Liches can currently pull from, but they should always start with one ability (or a variant of one ability) of the frame that was used to kill them.

 

Encountering your lich.

Things I like: I like that they can drop in on you at seemingly any time, having a personal enemy more actively harassing you than existing assassins like Stalker adds a unique twist to mission play.

I don't like: Being forced to choose between either ignoring the lich outright, or letting it instantly kill you. Neither of these choices feel good for the player, especially if it's an other player's lich who has invaded the game. You often end up waiting around for the targeted player to just say "Ignore it, I don't have the mods anyway." The "immortality" of the Kuva Liches feels more like the invulnerable Dragon Ball sort of immortality, rather than "I don't stay dead, and I come back stronger" theme that was initially pitched.

Ideas for change: Allow players to kill them normally. Give them a level up if the player "kills" them without the Parazon, maybe even give them another ability from your current Warframe if this happens. Remove the instant kill from a failed Parazon attempt, even dropping the player to 5% - 10% of their health would  be preferable. It keeps them feeling powerful and dangerous without feeling quite as unfair to the player.

 

Requiem mods.

I like: Thematically, the idea of having to figure out your Lich's weakness is a great idea. Mixing and matching to find the correct mods and the correct order to use them is different and interesting.

I don't like: The extra layer of RNG of having them locked behind the relic system. There's no real need for it, it feels bad to the player to have to waste void traces and do radshares for a chance of getting the mod that they need, when it was already just a chance to get them from Kuva Siphons anyway. The way that Murmurs reveal which mods you will need is also unsatisfying, and feels very slow while also  being separate missions from other things (such as kuva siphons, void relics, etc) that might be taking place on the same node.

Ideas for change: Remove requiem relics outright. Have Kuva Floods have a 100% chance to drop a random Requiem mod, and have Siphons have a chance of dropping a random Requiem mod. As for revealing Requiem mods, that could potentially be changed to be a much higher number of any enemies killed in Luch-controlled nodes, with parazon-finished enemies rewarding a higher amounts the reveal. This way players can multitask and feel like they're making progress even while doing other things. I've also seen suggestions that Lich dialogue could hint at which mods might be needed, which could be an interesting way of allowing sharp players to skip a little bit of the grind.

 

Lich Tax.

I like: This is another case of the theme being cooler than the execution of it. The idea of your Lich/his thralls taking some of your drops and somewhat punishing you for his existence is a neat one.

I don't like: The execution of it. Especially in regards to rarer or singular drops. A Lich should not be able to steal the requiem relics that you need to acquire the mods to kill them. Similarly, things like Ayatans and Sortie rewards should also be exempt from Lich Tax. As it is, it currently turns what should be a reward into a very punishing feeling.

Ideas for change: Exempt certain "important" drops from being taxed by Kuva liches. Give some way for players to recover their loot without having to go through all the effort of killing the lich first. For example, special spy missions on Lich-controlled nodes could reward a portion of stolen loot on completion.

 

Lich Weapons.

I like: More weapon variants, especially for weapons that did not yet have any variants. I also like that these seem to be the first variants that allow for a different Riven Disposition than their base weapon, keeping variants separated could be a good way to maintain balance between the various variants of weapons.

I don't like: Seemingly random bonus values. We shouldn't be made to grind for the best version of a weapon, it's bad enough having to do that with Rivens already.

Ideas for change: Set bonus values by the level of the lich. Stronger lich = stronger weapon. Keep the elements as they are, determined by the frame used to create them. This allows for variance, without feeling random, as though you got a worse weapon than someone else simply for being unlucky.

Ephemera rewards.

I like: The new ephemera look super cool. It's simple as that.

I don't like: More RNG ephemeras. These should be achievement based, not RNG based.

Ideas for change: Introduce a new resource or drop from permanently killed or converted liches, which can be used to craft or purchase the new ephemeras, similar to the use of Vitus Essence in the Arbitration shop.

[LordDoom01]

Firstly, I must ask one question. Will the Kuva Lich System be updated with new features in the future?

If the answer is no, DE you must remove the system right now. It will only be a pain in the ass for players! The Kuva Lich system in its current form can only be the foundation for further content of the Kuva Lich System. It must be built upon, or it will only become a detriment to the game.

If the answer is Yes, I hope you haven't overloaded yourselves with work. This will need a lot of it and I think you are facing a tight time table to get that done before people tire of the system completely. And here are some additions that I think the Kuva Lich System needs to have implemented in the future.

Enemy Kuva Liches

At current, there is one addition I believe the enemy Kuva Liches need. After ranking up to a certain point, the Queens should give the Kuva Lich a fleet of ships that appear on the Star Chart. This addition does two things:

1. It allows players a way to get some of their stuff back. Now players can't be allowed to raid one ship belonging to the Kuva Lich to get all their stuff back, but they should be able to see what raiding a Kuva Lich Ship will get them back. So say if the Kuva Lich steals a relic, the player just has to play the Kuva Ship Mission that lists that Relic as a reward. Obviously a system needs to be in place to encourage players to hunt down the Lich, which can be easily explained as the Lich buffing up security so you can't steal your stuff back (represented by missions giving less stuff back or having ever increasing difficulty).

2. It allows the Kuva Lich to have a Boss Node. The simple reason behind this is it gives players a way to directly attack the Lich when they have figured out the Requiem. It could also allow the Lich to have more personality, with their ship having a interior theme or decorations.

One could also use these to build up Murmurs faster (raiding them for intel), but I think Converted Liches would be better way to handle the Murmur Grind.

Converted Liches

As it stands, they have no use in the game at all. There is no benefit in converting. We should be able to utilize those we have converted. And here are a few uses.

1. KILLING YOUR CURRENT KUVA LICH!
Everyone has complained about the Grind and RNG. This is a no brainer. You send off a converted Lich, and in 24 hours (or maybe 12 hours) they've locked your current enemy Lich in an escape pod and fired them into the sun. You don't get any gear for this, but it clears out an unwanted Lich far faster than the grind would.

And alternative is you can put your converted Kuva Liches to work uncovering the Murmurs. This can be as simple as a bonus to the gather rate per lich assigned, or them going off to straight up get the exact information. The later option has potential for events, like your Converted Lich being caught and you have to save them. This has the potential to give the system more depth.

Both of these options help solve the grind issue.

2. Bodyguard
Pretty simple concept. You can have one Lich spawn in with you at the start of a mission and they stay till it ends or they are "forced to retreat." I would suggest they can revive you if you go down.

3. Helping out with other Grinds
The basic idea is they are the new resource drones. You can send them to a sector and harvest resources for you. And given they are powerful soldiers, you can even lend them to the various factions in the game for standing. There are a lot of ways to implement this, as simple as the current resource drones are or something more complex that could add further depth (example: You lend a Lich to Fortuna for a standing mission, but then Nef Anyo sicks the Orb Mother on the lich and you have to go save/fight beside them).

Maintaining Converted Kuva Liches

Obviously with what I had just suggested, a limit on the Convert Liches is needed. Firstly being a cap on how many you have. I think this would be best tied solely to master rank and the cap to match up with the Resource Drone Deployment cap as they would effectively replace the resource drones. Retiring a Kuva Lich to make room for a new one is pretty simple, you send them to Iron Wake to join Steel Meridian. I'm unsure if any active systems are needed like we have on the pets. They are intelligent beings, so we shouldn't have to tell them after each mission to get medical attention or to feed themselves.

You could also let players further customize their Lichs cosmetically. Let you colour your edgiest Lich in bright pink.


Obviously there is plenty more that could come from the Kuva Lich System, but these I believe are the first ones that should be implemented to develop it into something the community won't grow tired of.

Edited November 4, 2019 by LordDoom01

[tekmansam]

Sorry that I can't be bothered to read through 20 pages to see if this has been reported, but in addition to the KL showing up in missions even if you chose to dispatch them (which I know has been reported) there is an enormous hang any time he spawns in missions.  Enormous.  Makes the game feel like it has locked up or is about to crash.

[Eshima]

I've seen a few posts in the thread related to this, but in case I missed one that has already posted this exact issue then I apologize in advance for posting a problem already reported.  

As some has discovered, there are issues with spy missions and remaining undetected since the patch.

I noticed tonight that it's also causing issues with any of the other missions or events than require remaining undetected. I have been trying to complete the current extermination nightwave challenge, and I am not getting credit for it even after completing an entire mission as Ivara without ever leaving prowl.

So, I noticed that it could be one of two things causing automatic failure of remaining undetected and not setting off alarms. I haven't been able to pin down which of the two as of yet.

1. Attempting the mission on a planet under the influence of your lich.

2. Whenever you get the Kuva guardian prompt during a mission. (Why do Kuva guardians continue to prompt for a larva in the mission when you already have a lich anyhow?)

[Darkmega18]

14 hours ago, Darkmega18 said:

*see post for my previous feedbacks*

just had a brainwave. on top of my proposed ideas, rather than relying solely on tax which is kind of salty because it's technically rewards that have been withheld from you not fresh rewards the lich should passively generate resources multiplied by the number of nodes they control on the different planets they control.

if lich controls eris, create plastids, nano spores and all that fun stuff. like say, a resource drop amount per node with rare resources being generated say 25% of the time. if he also had ceres a couple of nodes he's generate whatever ceres has and 25% of those procs to gen resources and add to his stockpile. this would be accrued say in a similar cycle to if you had perfect control of a resource extractor so every 4-8 hoursish.

special cases:

in special cases, If the nodes are excavation nodes the node should also produce cryotic at say 100 a cycle and a rare shot at relics per cycle added to his stockpile.

Disruption, spy, survival when run as a lich fight could be made to salvage resources back from the lich on completed reward cycles. Say, 5% per rotation. So this means a total amount of resources the lich owns, get that much of it's total stockpile back, with 5% chance that it will return any singular resource, like a stolen mod, a stolen relic, stolen ayatan star etc. Sabotage could also return resources potentially.

When resources get returned rather than showing them in the end of mission screen a lich screen should come up with the lich getting angry or sad that you just pilfered his/her resources and a tally of all the resources you managed to steal off the lich should appear and they should go up in anger level. Each day that goes past, lich should also chill the heck out and reduce in anger, while controlling a couple of new nodes.

cause in my case, lich only had one intercept node left last night, and I'm not that fond of intercept, so I left it, hoping he'd propagate a bit more at a later date. He's a pretty chill dude. Calls me friend and stuff. I play peekaboo with him and steal his thralls kneecaps until I eat a kuva tonkor to the teeth or get deleted by a powerful thrall then we say good bye, no bother at all, until i learn the contents of his password...

Edited November 4, 2019 by Darkmega18

[Gentleman_Bird]

I think the amber star reward for Requiem relics should be increased to x3. One amber star feels like almost nothing for using something as limited as a requiem relic.

[MaxFaraday]

So, apparently the requiem mods are unique.  I didn't know that, I picked one after the requiem mission a realized I already had it on my parazon.  I then noticed that there wasn't a duplicate in my inventory.  So, I gained nothing from that relic.

I ran another relic and noticed at the choice screen after the mission there isn't anything to tell you if you already have the requiem mod.  I have no simple way to keep track and their names are all confusing and so are their icons.

Not sure I want to waste my relics if I can't easily keep track of which that I have and I can't have duplicates.

[-LOF-THRL-]

Ok, i figured out we can ignore the Lich and play the regular missions in the nodes. I will do that, because half of my map is red now.

Edited November 4, 2019 by -LOF-THRL-

[-LOF-THRL-]

26 minutes ago, LordDoom01 said:

Firstly, I must ask one question. Will the Kuva Lich System be updated with new features in the future?

If the answer is no, DE you must remove the system right now. It will only be a pain in the ass for players! The Kuva Lich system in its current form can only be the foundation for further content of the Kuva Lich System. It must be built upon, or it will only become a detriment to the game.

If the answer is Yes, I hope you haven't overloaded yourselves with work. This will need a lot of it and I think you are facing a tight time table to get that done before people tire of the system completely. And here are some additions that I think the Kuva Lich System needs to have implemented in the future.
 

I think they want to add Corpus (and perhaps Infested) variants too.

[SpentCasings]

The grind for requiem relics is absolutely PAINFUL. Also. if you learn some requiums through trial and error, if you get enough murmurs they should NOT tell you ones you already know. All that slog for nothing. Some means could be added to learn the proper order without having to get killed, perhaps killing a 4th set of thralls. 

Speaking of thralls, the number you need per murmur should be reduced some. or allow more of them to spawn per mission. Perhaps allowing a 4th set to be unlocked that reveals the order, and 30 kills per? 30x4 = 120 for a perfect run, down from the current 150+ probably getting killed 3 times trying to figure out the order. Win win.  I dont know about you, but...I dont like dying. Its not fun. If there was a means to flawless liche's I'd like it even if it ment i had to grind longer. 

The math for Condition overload is bad....it needs to go back to what it was before with a smaller bonus. Same applies to Blood rush. You kinda destroyed most build diversity melle wise with that one. Status builds nearly completely died. You guys just simply need to go back to the drawing board with the math. You invalidated SO many weapons and builds with these changes. Honestly if you had just kept the old system, and buffed the melle weapons the way you did currently i'd probably use nearly my entire arsanel of melle weapons now. as it stands I'll probably just stick to three, and wont bother with my zaws or practically any new weapons you guys introduce ever again unless they are crit focused. You did that one to yourselves. 

Relic screen should tell you what mods you already have and how many of them to avoid duplicates if you are trying to finish a set. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by SpentCasings

[Zebiko]

The initial start and grind is what most people hate (I did), but after that, it's much faster to slay a lich. 

The process to kill the lich is still boring. They need to add something to vary it up. Add special missions (or interrogate option to murmur take downs) to get intel on the lich, instead of having all the stats given to the player as soon as it's awakened. 

Maybe, instead of the lich always spawning in on a mission, we tenno get info from murmurs of the current, and temporary location of the lich, of which we could go in and kill in an assassination type mission. 

I feel like the lich shows up too early in the murmur grind. The lich should show up after the first glyth is found out. I try to avoid killing him until I know at least 1 glyth, then try a second time once I know the second glyth. Then again after the third. At this point I should have narrowed down the combination. 

For my next lich, I'm going to try to know the first 2 glyths before attempting to kill it. I would have to abandon missions though, because the number of lich missions don't expand until they level up, aka we fail. There needs to be a way to have the lich node influence expand slowly without leveling it (a way of finding more nodes with lich goons?)

Also, when ignoring a lich, he can spawn a lot of murmurs, but there is a cap per mission, I think. There is definitely something missing when we want to avoid the lich. Something should happen from our choice, but nothing does. A consequence for avoiding, or maybe the lich follows his target (hunter becomes the hunted), idk, but there needs to be something here to make it interesting. 

The new finishers are great, and fun to do. It's interaction with enemies that Warframe needs. Way too many enemy types feel like mindless drones or punching dummies. 

When I decided to activate a lich, I make sure that's all I'm doing until he's dead. The loot tax has to change, where the lich only steals from lich missions, whenever there are lich or lich minions in a mission, then that mission is okay for stealing. All other missions should not have loot tax.

To be honest, I like doing kuva siphons and floods more than killing a lich. The lich grind and the kuva relic grind are both simple, but the lich grind has tougher enemies and death/fail mechanics. I can stop doing kuva relic grind whenever I want, but the lich grind needs to be done asap because of the loot tax affecting all missions. 

I still think the relic rng part is a blatant way to extend the time to grind the lich's. The glyth mods are okay, but the method to get them doesn't make sense lore wise. 

If the lich tax is lessened to only relevant missions, you could have liches show up randomly after the war within quest, instead of us initiating a lich through a mission. 

Also, I don't like how the lich starts as a nobody and then gets injected with kuva after we murder him, and bam, a big ugly trolol. And his only mission is to steal from tenno, break their faces and re-align tenno vertebrae. I rather like them to be grineer generals and minor leaders that were picked for the special blood. The first encounter could be lich killing us, ranking up in the eyes of the grineer queen.

I saw a convert lich show up in a defense mission, to kill another lich. This was pretty cool, and seemed to actually help. 

[KosmicKerman]

The grind is horrible. RNG behind RNG behind RNG. I just spent a bunch of time grinding regular relics to farm traces so I could upgrade the requiem relics. 4 radiant relics and only a single mod dropped (hint not the one I needed). And I already had the mod I needed it just had been used by the previous 3 liches. You have to farm relics to get traces. You have farm kuva missions to get relics. You have farm requiem relics to get mods. And then you have the endless farm of lichs to figure out what the mods are. This is way too much.The mods should drop from liches. There is no need for the extra farm.

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