(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[Mattoropael]

3 hours ago, Darkmega18 said:

Parazon assassin mods:

In the case of the parazon mods: blood for health/energy these should be stronger, as a single health orb isn't going to do much good for someone playing content this high up.

instead blood for health should draw red particles from the enemy during and after the animation refilling health by 25% of max health and provides like 200 armor for 15 secs. refreshable.

Blood for energy, should draw blue particles from the enemy and essentially cause a small energize burst that gives 25 energy to yourself and allies while improving ability efficiency (or power) by 25% for 10 seconds or something to the killer.

Can't go through your whole post and give proper response yet, but for this part I think I can comment.

My take on this is that their intention for these two mods is for endgame players who use equipment with synergy to health/energy orbs (e.g. Health/Energy Conversion, Arcane Pulse/Energize, Synth Fiber).

And my issue with them is that they're unreliable. 50% for something that only works very seldomly (Mercy mechanics are extremely wonky, as you've described) is very low. You go through all this trouble to Mercy a non-thrall enemy, and you get... a coin flip to see if you actually get rewarded for it? What the hell?

[Overlorddarkwolf]

I'm probably remembering the tennocon thing wrong but wasn't one of the things in the ad that kuva liches die and keep coming back until you use the correct mod combination. As it stands the liches die as a larvaling and then as a kuva lich if you choose to kill them for their weapon, so it's less like a pseudo-nemesis system and more like "Grineero: Kuva Liches Die Twice". I was kinda looking forward to a personal nemesis but the liches seem more like petulant weak assassin thieves who get a sudden burst of kill competency that goes as soon as it shows when you use the wrong mod combination.

Another thing is the limited use requiem mods; if they were easy to farm, then sure, I get them being limited. As it stands, it is not easy to farm as there is still a moderately small chance you won't get a requiem relic on the floods; even though the hotfix supposedly fixed that. Now it seems before you dip your toes in the lich system you have to have 3 or 5 of each requiem mod just in case.

The levels of grinding (i.e. hoping RNG blesses you with a larvaling, opening requiem relics, collecting murmurs, and using requiem mod combinations) introduced in the Grineero: Kuva Liches Die Twice update makes me worry that the empyrean update will be grindrean update. Totally looking forward to a primed warm coat mod for the railjack.

You could do as others have said and have them die, corrupted vor style, if you use the wrong mod combination. The requiem mods could be made to not be so limited use; and have other use such as currency to get something else, like ducats, other mods, decorations, or syndicate medallions like how prime parts currently are since we don't need excess prime parts to keep up maintenance for prime weapons. If they have to be limited use, then at least give them more charges before they are destroyed, like five ten charges per requiem mod.

[freddiziel]

Well, I don't know if my feedback will be read in between hundreds of this feedback, but here goes nothing

Melee

In my opinion, it's great, stance mod matters now since their moveset also affects your damage output. In example is between Blinding Justice and Decisive judgment, Blinding Justice deals more damage imo due to how its moveset is blazing fast and has more moves, while Decisive judgment will increase your spin attack damage, it has less moves than Blinding Justice, so I guess Blinding Justice gives you DPS while Decisive Judgment gives you burst damage. Blocking is also very useful for survivability now imo, I don't really find the melee to be nerfed, on the contrary, I feel like it's buffed tbh. If you need to change something I recommend this two things:

- integrating heavy attack to quick switching, so we don't need to equip the melee weapons to use heavy attack. That way, combat flow won't be too disrupted imo

- Raises mercy kill health requirement, at this point, mercy kill is unreliable and feels random. I think this should be more like a hotfix so mercy kills can be constant, I can only get them if the enemy is at level 80 or above, even then, it's still not always even though their health bar is almost depleted.

Kuva lich

It's not bad, but I can see the problem down the line where people would get bored of it, I want to say not soon enough, but considering people are already too OP and can easily finish them, I think something more need to be done for them. On another note, I can understand that kuva lich mission is basically a variant of high level normal node, but considering players want better rewards with high level content, DE might need to revamp the kuva lich mission rewards to better reflect the high level missions. 

One thing that I think that needed changes ASAP are these:

1. Murmur is too grindy for solo play, I think DE wants murmur farming to be a group activity, what with helping your friend or random pubs to kill their lich can net you a large murmur fill, and having another people will spawn more thralls, so doing it with a group is more encouraged, but I think some people are already too used to doing stuff solo, so they would appreciate it if grinding murmur solo has a different value than doing it with a team. 

2. Don't make failed sequence an instant kill, even if we did get the first sequence right, it doesn't kill the lich right away, so I think the first lich finisher should be more tolerable

3. Also, it would be great if helping a teammates kill their lich would means our team murmur would be filled right away, and it would encourage more group play. As of now, you need at least 3 successfull lich kill/conversion to get a full murmur in one go, considering thralls doesn't fill murmur that much too, I feel that it's too much to do and doesn't really give us reason to go play with a team

I think that's all that I can think of, I really love the new melee despite what most people say, the combos are easier to be done and much more intuitive, transitioning between combos and even between finisher and combo is very smooth too imo, having high attack speed won't be a problem too since there's no pause combo. Although I can't find any opening to use air combos,  since launched enemies aren't even launched that high so ground combo still can reach them, and although I'm confused on how to use the hold e momentarily move and wall dash combo, I've been having a blast with this melee update. Oh and kuva lich too to an extend 😅

Keep up the good work, and hopefully DE can find middle ground and meet everybody's expectation with this feedback

[--Q--ualityContent]

Mercy kills are way too much of a bother.
And by the time you get to make them the enemy has enough slash procs to kill him anyways.

Edited November 4, 2019 by --Q--ualityContent

[Ceryk]

I've had some time to play with the Kuva Lichs. Overall, I think it's going in the right direction of adding more end game content to the game. But I have some serious concerns and problems with the implementation which largely come down to two things: Too much RNG and too much grinding.

So my problem with the RNG is that you've got MULTIPLE RNG walls to scale in order to play the content on top of RNG through out. First, RNG to get the right Relic. Then RNG to get the right mod. Then RNG to kill the Lich. RNG determines whether you get a trash weapon or a good weapon. Now some of this is okay, I am totally fine with the RNG in trying to figure out symbol order to kill the Lich for instance. I am not cool with having to go through so many RNG walls just to get what I need to kill the thing.

Then comes the grinding. Grinding to get the relics, grinding to get the mods, grinding to get murmurs. That grind really should be eliminated or eased. Maybe add a chance to get murmurs in other ways on top of Mercy killing thralls, for instance. Give them as random mission rewards and making an information broker that lets you buy a certain number per day. Not saying eliminate that part of the game or even reduce the number required, just additional ways that maybe even allow you to get them while doing non-Kuva Lich exclusive content so you keep progressing even if you aren't in the mood to go Thrall hunting and want to go do something else.

But I think would would help the most is eliminating the Requiem Relics entirely. There's really nothing in those mods that can't be easily added elsewhere in the game in order to facilitate eliminating them. Make the mods permanent and award them at the end of The War Within. To compensate for removing the expendable nature, require some sort of "currency" like Void Traces that powers the mods that comes from playing Kuva Lich content so you get it while you are looking for Murmurs, or even just use Kuva itself. It's just an annoying amount of additional RNG and grinding that requires a pretty focused dedication to that I don't think will be sustainable for a lot of people and probably won't be appreciated as the game ages and keeps gaining more and more content, which more and more ultra focused grinding will either distract from other content (especially for people who aren't going through the majority of the system now and come into the game later) or discourage engaging in the Kuva Lich system because of how much purely focused play is required. It's going to be come a lot more daunting for new players as we get liches for other factions as well.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Ceryk

[-Tilter-]

Kuva lich system is very flawed in it's present state and needs to be addressed immediately.. Tedious grind that makes you go insane, the massive amounts of RNG tied to every single fiber of the system is mindblowing.. I'm disappointed and as it is I don't think I'll have the strength to try and farm these mastery fodder weapons they've added..

First you start by grinding kuva missions for requiem relics, then use the relics to grind the requiem mods, then use the said mods to continuously get b!tch slapped cuz you didn't put the mod in the right order because you're going in blind since getting 1 murmur completed takes about 60 thralls which takes approximately an hour of grind so getting all 3 is really painful.. So you go through a boring trial and error and with my luck that's a lot of error seeing as I somehow always get the last mod to be the one that fits -.- and then you get to the 2nd slot with 1 less option and by then you'll have 1 murmur ready to at least get a clue for the last one if you didn't get lucky before... OR you run away til you get more murmur clues which is equally boring and lame as getting 1 shot.

The random spawning of the lich is lame too, getting a node where you can confront them once you're ready is far better than being force to grind more even when you know the correct order of mods, it's ok for them to spawn in as well but giving a dedicated node is a must.

Also the difficulty is quite high, I know I can handle it as a veteran with over 2k hours invested in this game, but most of the newer and intermediate players might not be able to handle these 100+ heavily armored grineer to get these murmurs once the lich gets to level 5. 

And all this for an RNG weapon that might be the same as your previous ones just like it happened to me, and you need to get 13 or 14 different ones? With hours of grind behind each one just for 3k mastery fodder? Come on.. This is actually the worst grind you've ever implemented so far, it's both horrible RNG and tedious spamming of same sh!t over and over.. I don't think I'll do any more of this until it gets tuned to a more tolerable state.. Please DE make this right, listen to all the amazing constructive criticism the community is giving (I know I'm not one of them) to help improve this system because it's actually painful as it is, I have a genuine headache from this grind and it's making me not want to play your game anymore, why would you want to play a game that gives you a headache..

[MetalGrayFox]

Hi,

 

Just going to post my thoughts here, an echo I am sure on aforementioned posts. 

1) Obtaining a lich. Pretty straightforward at the moment, and it's new content so a majority of players would want one. But fast forward 6 months or so, we don't want to be farming and accidentally kill a lich to now have our future missions compromised. Maybe this could be separated to a specific node you do to activate the lich process, perhaps one on the kuva fortress. As fun as it is for now, I don't want to be trying to farm an item in future to have a lich steal it at the end of the mission. It feels very forced upon us as it stands. 

 

2) Honorary mention of the kuva lich hunter collection bundle being a little pricey for what it is. Considering the mods + relics are consumables, it's very much a pay to skip pack with a hefty plat tag. The armor is cool, but altogether I think the bundle should be less, maybe somewhere in the 500 region. 

 

3) Murmurs. At the moment this is a very lengthy process, probably (for me at least) the worst part of the grind. There is no real way to skip this stage or have it progress faster. My suggestions for it are as follows: 
- A requiem mod which increases murmur efficiency on thrall finishes, filling up 3x the bar over an un-modded finisher.
- Also, allow a chance for you to glean a required mod when you attempt to finish your lich during a mission. At the moment, if you try to finish them prior to modding your parazon, you are killed and they level up with no benefit to you. Also, they cannot be vanquished from a mission without attempting to finish them, so give this mechanic some player benefit (with RNG). 

This would allow a player to have some control over their murmur grind.  

 

4) Relic farming. Considering the relics are RNG and stuck in unique locations, buff siphon drop chance to 50% and do not allow these to be stolen by the lich. 

 

5) Lich nodes. I like that they are higher level, however for that higher level there is nothing to be gained except the grind of thrall. These should have drop chances for the things required to beat the Lich. A chance of obtaining a requiem relic or mod from these missions would be most welcome. This will lessen our grind overall and not have the system be such a 1-way flow as it is at the moment. 

 

6) Duplicate weapon bad luck protection. Would it be possible for the game to analyse a player's inventory and reduce the chance of giving their lich the same weapon as previous lich(es) over and over again, until say the player has obtained all the weapons once? Considering the grind for one weapon can take some time, it would be super annoying to continue having your lich spawn with the same weapon multiple times and be forced to progress that lich to completion before you can try again. I understand the idea is a pursuit of a weapon (mixed with RNG as usual) however some players may be chasing MR and do not have a way around bad luck. 

 

7) Element on weapon. I understand there are a list of progenitors now which essentially guarantee your element depending on the frame you choose. However, considering this could be fixed someday and not all players are aware of this, allow Riven Slivers to be used to change the buff on a liches weapon. Again there would be no guarantee of what the next element will be, it will just roll the current buff for a new one. Similar to how we roll riven mods. 

 

Hope to see some changes made to the overall system so it is not forced on players, and a lot less grindy. 

As a veteran, I want to end on the note that the update overall is very good and imo headed in the right direction. We have weapons to pursue now, the weapons are enhanced and locked behind a progression system. All very good, just need to find a balance in the grind / reward ratio as it seems way too much grind at the moment considering the many RNG factors involved. 

[ByroSphere]

On 2019-10-31 at 7:16 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

DEV NOTE:  Because so much is changing by design with THE OLD BLOOD, we want to be clear on how we’re handling your feedback. The majority of week 1-2 Hotfixes will speak to feedback. We want to combine feedback and stats together to iterate. To be a part of the feedback conversation please be constructive and clear (expand the spoilers below for a guide on how to write feedback), and most importantly, patient.

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HOW TO WRITE FEEDBACK: 

1. Keep it simple
Write simple, directed points about the topic you feel strongly about. Remember to be constructive and to the point.

2. Back it up
Support your points with concrete points. X has better stats than Y. This ability is less useful when considering X. Provide in-game situational evidence or a solid foundation for your argument to rest upon.

3. Be polite

The best feedback occurs when two people discuss opposing viewpoints to find a constructive middle ground. Discussion is a natural part of feedback! Ensuring that it is polite and without personal attacks is key. We’re far less inclined to listen to feedback filled with personal attacks and rude speech. We are all trying our best!

The Forums can be an amazing tool when used correctly. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on Grendel, how to acquire him, and his signature weapon! 

 

There’s nothing wrong with first reactions - but relearning takes time. We are especially interested in feedback from players who have taken time to understand The Old Blood. Thank you! 

This thread will be used to house your feedback on the newest gameplay in Warframe: KUVA LICHES.  

Expand the spoilers below for the full detailed explanation on Kuva Liches, The Parazon, new mods, rewards, and more: 

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KUVA LICHES:

Update 26 brings a completely new breed of enemy, gameplay, and reward: The Kuva Liches have arrived. This system is what the Kingpin system, first shown on Devstream #88, has become over time, despite being put on hold for quite some time! This will continue to be expanded throughout Warframe’s factions.

This system is meant to be challenging. It’s meant to be a threat. It’s meant to posit a vengeful and immortal enemy against you until you can decipher how to defeat them. It will demand your best gear and game knowledge! The Update notes will outline the essentials, the game will teach you the rest. Let’s begin, Tenno.

THE PARAZON:

The Parazon is the first and most crucial piece to taking down your Kuva Lich, but it is not exclusive to the Kuva Lich system. This is a new tool given to ALL Tenno of any level and is now a part of the Tutorial. It is an interactive tool with widespread use in the game, from basics like hacking, to deeper gameplay like decoding the means to Assassinate your Lich. 

PARAZON MODS: 
We have moved some Warframe Mods (ex: Intruder) over to become Parazon Mods, and are adding new Parazon Mods (listed below). Our approach with these is that they provide benefits the Parazon’s various uses, instead of taking up slots on Warframes. All core Cipher (Hacking) Parazon Mods can be found in Spy Vaults throughout the Origin System, and Assassin (Finisher) Mods can be found on various Bosses! 

The Parazon will have 3 Normal Mod Slots, and 3 REQUIEM MOD Slots (covered below). 

CIPHER MODS - Think of these as upgrading the tool aspect of ‘hacking’. These make hacking easier or give small benefits when hack is completed successfully! 

• Intruder: + Additional Seconds to hacking. 
• Live Wire: Shock Enemies within 24 meters while hacking.  
• Auto Breach: 30% Chance to autohack! 
• Runtime: +45% Sprint Speed after hack.
• Master Key: Unlock nearby lockers after hacking
• Untraceable: Become invisible for 18s after hacking. 
• Failsafe: 50% Chance to retry a failed hack. 

ASSASSIN MODS - These are for the new PARAZON ‘MERCY’ FINISHERS that can occur at anytime in game on eligible enemies. 

• Blood for Life: 50% chance to create a Health Orb on Mercy.
• Blood for Energy: 50% chance to create an Energy Orb on Mercy.
• Blood for Ammo: Mercy refills magazine by 100%
• Hit and Rune: On Mercy: +60% Parkour speed for 6 seconds
• Out Of Sight: Blind Enemies with 18 meters on ‘Mercy’ kill. 

PARAZON FINISHERS: AKA ‘MERCY’

Parazon Finishers are a new lethal technique that can occur in any mission on almost any unit. They are optional, as you can still kill the enemy without using them. Enemies eligible for Mercy will have a Parazon icon over their head! 

REQUIEM MODS: 
New Requiem Mods have arrived and they are the only way to end your Kuch Lich. Your Lich is immortal until you figure out the correct combination of Requiem Mods - the precise order matters, and the only way to glean the order is by seeking clues from your Lich’s Thralls and trying them out on you Lich. Pay attention to your battles!

The 8 Requiem Mods are:

LOHK
From brooding gulfs are we beheld
By that which bears no name

XATA
Its heralds are the stars it fells
The sky and Earth aflame

JAHU
Corporeal laws are unwrit
As suns and love retreat

VOME
To cosmic madness laws submit
Though stalwart minds entreat

RIS
In luminous space blackened stars
They gaze, accuse, deny

FASS
Roiling, moaning, this realm of ours
In madness lost shall die

NETRA
Carrion hordes trill their profane
Accord with eldritch plans

KHRA
To cosmic forms from tangent planes
We end as we began

Requiem Relics also contain an all new item - a Riven Sliver! A fragment of a sundered Riven. It is known that, with enough Slivers, Palladino is capable of reforging a complete Riven. 

Earning Requiem Mods: 

The Void is reacting to the Lich experiments on the Kuva Fortress, and for the first time: Void Fissures are appearing on the Kuva Fortress! But these are unlike the others, and they only respond to REQUIEM RELICS. 

There are 4 Requiem Relics - each with 2 Requiem Mods. Collect them all! 

- You can get Requiem Relics from KUVA FLOOD SIPHON MISSIONS, guaranteed. 
- You can get Requiem Relics from normal KUVA SIPHON MISSIONS, 30% of the time. 

- These can be refined like Lith, Meso, Neo, and Axi Relics. A 5th Tab has been added for REQUIEM RELICS in your Void Relic Refinement screen. 

Requiem Mods have limited a limited amount of charges (3), but only consume charges when you successfully kill a Lich. Repeat Requiem Mods in your collection will eventually go to good use. 

ONTO THE LICHES:

THE ENEMY:
-Killing A KUVA LARVLING is the first step to creating a Lich. These can be found on any regular level 20+ Grineer mission in the Origin System - not including Sorties/Fissure/Quests, etc. for now. They are only available for players who have reached The War Within or beyond, this is the required prerequisite for getting a Lich.
- You can only have one Lich active at a time. 
- The only way to get rid of your Lich is by using your Parazon with the correct Requiem Mods in the correct order - but you won’t be able to do this until you’ve found your Lich. Read on to learn how to do that.
- Only you and your Parazon can be lethal to your Lich - your squadmates can help you weaken the foe, but you are the key to victory. 

THE HUNT & THE INFLUENCE:
- Once your Lich has set its sights on you, the hunt begins. You will know you have your Lich when this Icon appears in your Navigation and Menus, allowing you to view your Lich status at any time:

THE FIGHTS:
Once you’ve drawn your Lich out to fight by destroying their Thralls and Influence nodes, fights against your LICH can go one of two ways:

DEFEAT- if your Parazon does not have the proper order of Requiem Mods. You will be defeated, and your Lich escapes, and grows stronger. 

VICTORY - if your Parazon does have the proper order of Requiem Mods. You will be victorious.  

THE VICTORY!
Defeating your Lich gives you two options:

VANQUISH:
Vanquishing your Lich with your Parazon ends its immortality, and grants you its Kuva Weapon. 

CONVERT:
Converting your Lich with your Parazon corrupts it and turns it to your side, and will have a chance to appear in battle to aid you. 

THE KUVA WEAPONS: 
When you Vanquish a Lich, you’ll get its Kuva Weapon variant that is completely unique to your Lich. The base weapons are as follows, with custom stats depending on your Lich: 

• Kuva Karak: The custom weapon of a fearsome Kuva Lich. It has greater reload speed, lower recoil, and greater accuracy than the standard-issue Karak rifle.
• Kuva Quartakk: Unlike a standard Quartakk, this Kuva Lich variant fires automatically from the hip and reloads faster while retaining its signature feature: annihilating targets with four simultaneous shots.
• Kuva Ogris: The custom weapon of a fearsome Kuva Lich. Unlike the basic version the Kuva Ogris fires detonite-infused casings semi-automatically, from a smaller clip, while dealing greater damage per shot.
• Kuva Kohm: The Kuva Kohm variant has a higher fire rate than the original. For every shot fired in rapid succession, the Kuva Kohm releases an additional bolt and grows more lethal.
• Kuva Tonkor: This Lich-variant grenade launcher hurls mayhem and destruction from an increased clip. The Kuva Tonkor deals lower damage per hit with this Grineer grenade launcher.
• Kuva Drakgoon: The Kuva Drakgoon flak cannon sends volleys of intensely hot shrapnel ricocheting around the room that do not slow down. Larger clip size and reload speed. Can be fired in wide or concentrated bursts.
• Kuva Stubba (AKA Twin Stubba): Double-fist rapid-fire bursts of pain with these dual-wield variants of the Grineer submachine gun. Higher fire-rate and clip capacity. 
• Kuva Seer: This variant pistol has higher fire rate and magazine capacity. Superior zoom capabilities, plus projectiles have a small Corrosive burst.
• Kuva Kraken: A custom variant that fires three quick shots with a single pull of the trigger, or can alt-fire burst the remainder of its clip. Higher fire rate, magazine capacity and reload speed. 
• Kuva Brakk: This Lich-variant semi-automatic hand cannon delivers a lot of punch in a small package. Higher fire rate, magazine capacity, and reload speed. 

NEW:

KUVA CHAKKHURR - A high-damage flintlock rifle! 

KUVA SHILDEG - A massive hammer for the smashing!! 

KUVA AYANGA  - An Arch-Gun that can be turned into a Heavy Weapon with a Gravimag. 

OTHER REWARDS AND SECRETS: 

If Kuva Weapons or Lifelong Companionship aren’t your thing, there’s more! The birth of a Kuva Lich from a Larvling has a chance to create a Lich with some added flair - one of Seven new Ephemeras that you can only earn from Vanquishing or Converting your Lich (if it has one equipped)! These are a bit more special and rare, so don’t expect every Lich to have one, but we will be balancing over time. 

 

Need to report a bug? Visit the THE OLD BLOOD Bug Report Megathread.

Think it'd be better if the Kuva Lich "Tax" was replaced with an active Heist, where the Lich would pop up in the mission areas that they have control over, and only stealing your rewards by directly taking them from you (in other words, make it possible to avoid getting robbed,within the missions).

It'd be especially fun if they would be immortal as the chase around you, only becoming defeatable if they manage to take your loot within the stage, and then having you need to use the Parazon to finish them off for real (still needing to farm the mods and murmur for that part), with the loot getting obtained for each HP bar you rip off them. Think their difficulty would scale better too, if they got harder to beat for each time they fail to steal from you (assuming you haven't assasinated/converted them).

That way they could really act as rivals whom are actively getting on your way, instead of just a big bad boss who is comfortably taking a huge discount off your gains from a safe distance 'till you kill all of their goonies.

[Mover-NeRo]

Few bits from me. I am at my second lich atm.

• Getting clues taking too much time. No reward

This would not be a problem if the missions provide any other reward. Right now you are forced to do high lvl, basic missions for nothing...just to get clues. 

• Failing at right Requiem, more info, clues

The guessing game could be much more interesting if you got some information about your current configuration if you fail. Like "crossed red", this one is not in configuration. "crossed blue" it is in configuration but on different place. Or even marking the one on 2nd and 3rd position if they are part of the right combination...you know the classic guessing game.

This create situation that you are more likely trying to avoid your Lich when it spawn than to try to kill him. And locking other spawns in groups.

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Mover-NeRo

[MSEP1]

The Lich System does not thematically feel right. They act like we have killed them over and over, but we only killed them once. They kill us more than anything else. Here are some thoughts for minor changes that would make the Liches feel more like an undying threat that we've shaped over time (copied from a comment I made on a reddit post):

"The Lich just one shotting you because you don't have the right mod feels odd thematically. I don't mind it functionally, but thematically, yeah, it's weird. I like the idea of them actually dying temporarily on failed attempts. Additionally, I like the idea of them gaining abilities as we kill them."

Basically, The Lich would only start with 1 ability at Rank 1. At each subsequent rank, they would gain a new ability. When we have a failed attempt at killing them, they would still die. Say putting in the wrong mod causes a shockwave that sends us back and temporarily kills the Lich. They would then revive, Rank up, and gain a new ability. Perhaps each time they rank up, they bleed a little Kuva as a pseudo-reward for downing them.

"Another option: I think that any failed attempts after they have reached rank 5 could keep the instakill thing on us. At that point, they have reached "full power" and cannot die unless we have their requiem. Thematically, that would fit. So basically:

Kill Larva: Lich Forms at rank 1 with 1 ability.

Kill Lich Rank 1: Lich Revives at Rank 2 with 2 abilities.

So on, until...

Kill Lich Rank 4: Lich Revives at Rank 5, announces that they are "unstoppable now." Any subsequent failed attempts to kill the Lich will function as it does currently.

Ideally, the abilities they unlock along the way would be linked to the warframe that gets the kill. They would end up having abilities of several frames."

Hopefully, this makes sense. These are relatively minor changes and would reduce the feeling of "guess I'll just die now" when your Lich spawns in and you don't have the right mod. 

Think of it this way. I'm farming murmurs, but I know my Lich might show up to stop me. He is at rank 2. I've prepared my arsenal to fight him, but I don't know his requiem combo yet. Is that my fault? No. I just haven't found the right mods yet, but I'm trying. I am prepared as best as I can be. Lich shows up. I manage to take down 1 health bar but the mod combo is wrong. As it stands right now, I am punished for doing that. That is not fun. It could be the case where you get rewarded, but ultimately the fight is a draw.

In closing: the current system seems built on punishment. We are punished for not being lucky. We are punished for operating in the Liches territory to try to take him down. We are punished for having him randomly spawn in on a defense mission. We are punished for trying to kill the Lich. With minor changes, that could be fixed. Keep up the good work!

[EndangeredPanda]

 

Feedback Parazon Mods

My issue starts with the addition of the mods to the relic system, the relic system has been complained about for a while now.

In order to get a small chance at getting the mod you need from a relic you first need to open other relics or run relic missions without one equipped this will take a large amount of time due to the pitiful amount of void traces earned in relic missions making it almost necessary to purchase a resources booster that costs 40 platinum for example a radiant relic cost 100 void traces to refine but I only got 28 void traces from the mission (this will vary I am just using a figure that I have received back today from a requiem rescue mission). The chance of you getting a specific mod that you want from a relic is 20% this is simply too low. 

My next issue is with the Kuva Lich Hunter Collection

With a price of 835 platinum the least you would pay if you bought this amount of platinum is 32.99 GBP. It appears, at least to me that 7 colour palettes have just been thrown in just so the price can be increased this is honestly concerning. With this being the only way to skip the grind of the RNG relic system completely the price is way too high in order to somewhat fix this I would recommend at the very least a cheaper bundle with just the mods in however this is just a band aid for the real problem which is the relic system. 

PS I hope this feedback is helpful.

[Loza03]

The lich is a decent starting point, but needs work.

As a lot of people have said, the Parazon failure shouldn't kill. Instead of killing you, play the same animation, but leave your Warframe stunned, maybe temporarily debuffed as the Lich escapes after playing the 'growing stronger' animation. Basically, as now, but without the cheap death. Maybe also a way to actively chase them off?

The Liches themselves also could use a lot more interaction. Right now they're so... segmented. Appearing as assassins (maybe with a cooldown between appearances to avoid a Wolf of Saturn Six situation) would be a start, but why not entire lich-focused missions? There's a lot of potential here. A raid on the Lich's vaults to recover some of your most recently-stolen loot, topping off with a Lich fight atop a pile of said stolen loot? Or maybe a raid on an Orokin/Lua facility with Requiem mods as an alternative acquisition method, with your Lich chasing you down all the way channeling the Resident Evil Nemesis instead of the Mordor ones.

Speaking of, Requiem mods definitely need an alternate acquisition method. It's far too rigid right now, which only highlights all the levels of RNG. Plus, such a fundamental part of Hunting your Lich should probably involve your lich in some capacity. 

I've heard a number of complaints regarding murmurs, and I think a fairly simple fix could be just adding more ways to get them. Fighting the Lich giving some extra Murmur, maybe a chance to find some more when doing certain missions in the lich's territory, perhaps the chance for Thrall scouts in other missions to let you nab some whilst doing other things.

The theme I can see is just that the system is too rigid - the lich and the systems around it need to be more flexible and feature more give-and-take between lich and player.

 

 

Also, as a secondary point - I think the random procs on enemies doesn't work for Mercy kills. My suggestion is to move the procs to a guaranteed chance to spawn on Eximus units (but still letting them die as normal), and giving a buff or boon like a small frost shield, AoE attack or recovering stolen energy. A small little extra challenge when fighting Eximus units to shake things up in the middle of a fight, as since they can die normally you have to hold off a little. Unlike the regular procs, having a consistent system would avoid the 'Mercy kill ready aaaand they're dead' situation that happens all the time in the current system.

[Rasdan]

I put Kuva lich hunting on stages

 

STAGE ONE - PREPARING "ALL" REQUIEM MODS

 

PROS:

You can get Kuva while finding the relic, which is nice. Now everyone can be more enthusiastic finding Kuvas to roll rivens.

The Kuva alert update is really helpful for fast navigation. DE should've implement this way before this update, but late is better than never.

100% Chance on Kuva Flood is solid. 30% Chance on Siphons is acceptable.

The Requiem mods, while it has three charges, at least they are tradeable. Which is quite nice.

 

CONS:

The rewards in this stage mitigates the grindy part. So, not much of a problem

 

MY SUGGESTION:

Build a seperate tab for Kuva Alerts. Since they're on the same tab as Arbitration - Clem - Weekly Ayatan - Any Tactical Alerts that appear at that time. It saves time from scrolling down.

This can be selfish of me, but increasing the siphon relic chance to 50% would be nice.

 

 

STAGE TWO - FINDING AND KILLING KUVA LARVING

 

PROS:

Now that the community has found a way to "choose" which element. We can expect it.

Only the player who kills the larving will get kuva lich, you can ignore it if you don't want to get bothered.

 

CONS:

Damage Bonus RNG is a horrible choice. Hardcore players would die to get the 60% bonus. Failing to get that might cause disappointment and motivation loss for them. Not to mention the last stage is horribly time consuming.

 

MY SUGGESTION:

Remove the Damage RNG and make it universal OR allow the players to upgrade the damage bonus to "maximum number" using certain item (i.e fuse with the same-different kuva lich weapon)

If the above solution is impossible. Add a "Tribute System" where player can pay the Kuva Lich a certain amount of Credits-Resources (Worst case scenario, platinum) so he stops being your Kuva Lich. or a "Bounty System" where player puts on a price on his head (Items or Platinum) so someone else can do the kill.

 

STAGE THREE - SEEK THE WEAKNESS AND FINISH IT OFF

PROS:

You can either the weapon-ephemera, but also a random companion.

The boss is actually quite tough. Failing to kill the lich scales up the level, thus more challenge.

 

CONS:

It takes a horribly long time killing thralls to find out one hint.

When Kuva Lich appear and you are unprepared, Kuva thralls appears slowly.

Kuva Lich might be really hard to kill if it scales too high (failed too much times because trial and error strategy). Hope there is a cap of it.

 

MY SUGGESTION:

Knowing that players would kill to get the highest damage bonus, they would do this mission repeatedly. Sadly, finding out the weakness to kill takes a very long time. Please reduce the number of thralls required.

The rewards isn't worth it once you have all the weapons (at least maxed ones) and ephemeras. Still, isn't there a reason why the enemy is called KUVA Lich and KUVA Thrall? Shouldn't the player be awarded Kuvas after killing them?

I'd suggest 200 Kuva per Thrall (Affected by resource mods and kavat buff). And a flat amount of 10k Kuva plus bonus per level scaling for killing the Lich. This encourages players to find more Kuva Liches from the get go. (20k kuva is much better, but that would be asking too much.

Give an option so player can use "specter" item to forcefully summon converted Kuva Lich.

 

That is all, i wish best of luck for the developers.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Rasdan

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

On 2019-11-02 at 7:45 AM, Nssheepster said:

I would be down for this

Please no, Kuva is already a huge chore to accumulate, as you can litterally waste tens of thousands in seconds when rerolling rivens, the last thing we need is another system that uses Kuva. Use another ressource, maybe ayatan stars or something more common.

[KCToxic]

I don't have much to say that others haven't already but can we please get a hud marker on the lich when they spawn into our missions? Thralls have a custom marker without being tagged by a player but the lich doesn't and sometimes it's hard to keep track of where mine is in a crowd of enemies. 

[Leon-Darkheart]

i got poked by someone that i should post my post i made already a wile ago here so i just link it here:

But srsly, I think you should fly over my huge wall of text there (at least the main post) since it pretty much lists up whats wrong with the main part of this update, the lich/rival system...

[FayteXIII]

I'm enjoying the Kuva Lich system. The acquisition of murmurs could use a bit of tweaking in relation to how quickly you complete a murmur, but the thing I feel should change is the Requiem mods being consumable. "The Void is reacting to the Lich experiments on the Kuva Fortress," is a key line in the patch notes that for me, who's interested in the lore the team's been building so ever so gradually over the years that re-enforces my feeling. If the void is responding to the Luva liches, and with the Tenno being what they are, we should be able to keep it, harness it further against these immortal foes. If they were permanent, I could put up with the Murmur grind effortlessly, finding a way to kill something that doesn't die viz normal means isn't meant to be easy after all. But after jumping through the hoops to kill it and after felling a few of these liches, we suddenly lose the means to combat them and have to start from grinding relics again? That's a gameplay loop I'm not looking forward to. I apologize for the rant.

TL:DR, I think the Requiem Mods should not be consumable for the sake of the Lich system bringing a slightly lighter grind to Warframe. 

[EzeARG]

Kuva Liches: Farming murmur it´s boring and repetitive, 1/2 day farming requiem murmur, it's so long for people who have a short time to play , the fun part is, discover mods combinations fighting kuva lich and defeat him after some trys. 
Parazon: It's a great idea, i love it. Maybe an adjust can do it better, like a speedy attack with this weapon instead melee equiped, without damage but with stun effect.

Kuva Weapons: Idk, still farming murmur.

[Gentleman_Bird]

It would be nice if there was a way to passively accumulate murmurs, such as having your lich send a thrall assassination team after you when you do other missions.

[xcatdarkness]

mostly good but amount of thralls needed to farm makes it feel really tedious, i suspect the intention was to encourage kuva litches to be handled over a longer period of time however it feels more like a drag on the process detracting from the fun value of mercy killings and so on because you just have to do it so many times.

>the special mods do not show an own'd status in the relics menu making it harder to find the one your missing

>please decrease number of thralls needed per clue

 

(had a kool 1v1 with my lvl 5 litch, felt nice to fight something that could fight back 😄 but took awhile to get there) 

Edited November 3, 2019 by xcatdarkness
added stuff

[Skye_Archer]

Due to a bug where a vanquished Kuva Lich turns up to help me during a rescue mission highlighted another problem with the system..

A Kuva Lich "Ally" shows up as a NPC blue marker on your radar and UI. This generally isn't a problem, but can be problematic in a rescue mission. Where unsuspecting players joining a missions may suddenly think the rescue target is already rescued from the prison when this isn't the case. During void fissure missions, this may cause a number of players to abort a mission thinking it is close to completion upon seeing the Kuva Ally Blue NPC icon, and thus think they wont have enough time to pick up the 10 required void reactants to open their relics..

You may want to consider changing the Kuva NPC ally icon to another symbol and colour!

[Numerikuu]

I have to echo the sentiment of others that say the murmur grind is too much. On top of the grind for requiem relics (it does not feel like a 30% drop rate btw), then the grind for void traces to refine them, to then have to grind a bunch of specific enemies for each of the 3 relic clues is just... yeah. It's just gonna lead to burnout and getting sick of it all in the end imo.

Either reduce how many murmurs/kills you need for each requiem, or add in other ways to find clues, or change how much murmurs give depending on the target (say, less 'exp' for a butcher, more exp for a heavy gunner etc.)

[Blackkingofcanada]

Personally, I'm loving the Kuva Lich and all that comes with it. I love being robbed. I love slowly kicking them out of a planet. I really like the idea of puzzling out their weakness through trial and error. I like how the mods eventually break and you'll need new ones, because lets be honest, those cards last plenty long. You can kill 3 Liches before one will run out, and those Liches don't all have the same combo, so they'll stretch a little farther. Even the murmur system is fine by me. Could it be adjusted, perhaps, but I think it is important to have to work for the opportunity to vanquish this foe. My only real problem is that the method for getting the Requiem Mods takes especially long, is very grindy, and isn't exciting or immersive. It's just relic runs.

"I'm searching for something I can use to vanquish a foe who has slowly polluted the system, stolen my hard earned cash and materials, broken my back on several occasions, and makes snide remarks over my comms. What do I do?" "Oh, well, you gotta go and get a special mod, a mod never before seen in Warframe!" "Okay." "A mod made even rarer by the fact that they slowly degrade and break over time, meaning the epic journey to get them will happen several times at least!" "Okay, where do I get these mods? Is there some special lore? Have the Queens been hoarding them to use against the Liches should they betray them? Do we steal it from the Queens, or do we have to go crawling through some forgotten temple to find a place where they've lain dormant for centuries?!?" "What, no, you just like, do some relic runs." "Oh...."

Relic runs aren't particularly immersive for Prime parts either, but they make sense, and primed Frames and Weapons are worth a little grind because they are powerful and attractive looking. But I am not a fan of the requiem relic system as it stands, if nothing else, just for the fact that the relics themselves are far too difficult to obtain. The Kuva siphon wasn't a bad idea. It keeps a cap of sorts on the amount of relics you can crank out in a short amount of time, but the problem is that you could run 10 missions and the only time you're guaranteed to get a relic is the occasional Kuva Flood. This system would still be fine if it weren't for the fact that the mod is hidden behind one more curtain of RNG. You could have run 10 Kuva missions, all for that one mod, and wind up with still more Kuva.

I do, however dig the Riven slivers. 

TLDR: I really like everything except for the methods needed to obtain the Requiem mods, but even then I kinda like it but it's too much effort for too little reward.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Blackkingofcanada

[Ulvra]

A bit more now that I've had time to properly dabble...

Kuva lich encounters and ranking - Feels good, things escalate nicely and they actually feel like a proper antagonist. I do not see the kuva lich/kingpin content as anything intended to be so instant gratificationy as many seem to desire, rather something that is indeed intended to potentially take a week, so for me it seem fine.

Murmur farming - No issues. Many has complained about the gain rate on the murmurs but after playing it, played for a couple hours and have uncovered two of the three requiems already. Speed is plenty fast in that regard.

Requiem relics - I've seen a lot of complaints about stolen relics, but that's not really a complaint on my end as long as we do indeed get the stolen things back after. It's possible to clear off influence on planets thus having places where you can farm relics without worrying about theft. As long as you don't purposely let your lich get out of control there really shouldn't be much issue and if you do you can clean up the mess before proceeding.

The only thing that might concern me in that regard is the ability to ignore the lich to avoid them expanding their territory and potentially blocking new planets. I've not tried to ignore my lich yet so can't say, but sounds like it's possible, so if so, all good. I wouldn't mind however a different source of the relics on top of siphons and floods, for instance as a vault C reward on kuva spy or rotation C reward on Taveuni. It should be rare but would just be nice to have more than one place to possibly acquire them, though honestly I'd be fine either way.

 

Summary - Played for 3'ish hours and made plenty progress, about what I'd expect time wise based on how the whole system has been previously presented. To me if you expect to have all 13 new weapons on day one, then this isn't content for you and at least there is the option to opt out, though I do feel really bad for the poor larvling whose only purpose is to go in and die, running after you begging for it and nope, no "mercy".

[Snydrex]

Simple suggestion:

Liches are supposed to come back from the dead. So, if we fail a mod sequence, shouldn't that just kill them, but make them come back later?

It's really annoying at how that we're forced to be WWE'd 2+ times in order to find the right order of mods.