Will Hardmode Be Hard Enough?

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

if you're nuking Sorties and felt Scarlet Spear was too easy towards the end of the run, then no, you're probably at that meta level where nothing will ever be hard enough without you getting nerfed: something Which Pablo himself said has to be taken into account before any major reworks.

my main concern is them being more rewarding; if the rewards don't match the increase in difficulty, it's dead on arrival, simple as that. 

no. it doesn't need to be much more rewarding. The challenge needs to be reward enough for the most part. If a player would prefer to play easier missions, then hardmode is definitely NOT for them. HM should be for players that are ok enough with the rewards we get, but just want more of a challenge. 

Also- why would it be "dead on arrival"? Its simply higher enemy levels as an option. Not its own separate game mode. 

my main concern is that it will develop a sort of elitism to where people call hard mode "real" Warframe and normal is looked at as easy mode. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

I wiill happily play it for the chance to get current resources in a different way.

If 'better' rewards are added, then the hamster wheel will just continue and the complaints will just shift.

IMO, based on current information, it's simply not being added for or targetted to those who already have all the things, for those already at the end of the game, because, well, they have all the things and are basically done.

At the same time, I don't see that the mode is even targetted at most players, just another setting to allow more variety, for those that want it.

Thinking it's going to be revolutionary, especially in the first interation, does not seem wise, IMO.

i'll play it without any extra rewards. I'm looking forward to doing the star chart from scratch again. 

 i agree that if great rewards are added, players will force DE to nerf the mode until everyone can win again.

As it is now, im ok with it being a simple enemy level bump, then maybe as time goes on they can do things like making the objectives more challenging. Im hoping they can rework hard mode enemies too to be more like their pre-nerfed versions

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Hypernaut1

[TheGrimCorsair]

For the majority of players who haven't been at the game for hundreds or thousands of hours already?

It'll probably be more than hard enough for 'em.

For the 4k+ hour players?

For the players following autopilot builds?

For Octavia?

Wouldn't hold my breath, and it'd be ridiculous to expect DE to cater to 'em as they represent a tiny minority of players.

[DrivaMain]

If it gives me double the resource drop chance and rate instead of normal mode? Sure, I’ll play it.

[IceColdHawk]

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

It's folly for anyone involved to think that any game company can appease this group, I have not seen one capable yet, been playing eltronic games since Pong.

I am hoping it adds something that players like and want, but there is no way it will be 'hard enough' for the forum crowd I have seen post here, it's not possible to actually please them, IMO.

Capcom. Monster Hunter series. Just an example of my own experience. There's so many more games out there that are challenging too. Warframe has potential to "please them" but DE simply isn't using it. But i won't deny that Warframe in its current state can hardly be actually "challenging" unless they restrict us hard or it becoming cheesy.

8 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

If it gives me double the resource drop chance and rate instead of normal mode? Sure, I’ll play it.

I kinda have my doubts that we're getting anything too good from it...even though it'd make much more sense and give players an incentive to not play boring easy missions for the "efficiency".

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

6 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

If it gives me double the resource drop chance and rate instead of normal mode? Sure, I’ll play it.

But you don't have any use for those resources or exp.  Unless the mode is going to give stuff like massive endo, kuva, potatoe, forma, rare mods, cosmetics, etc.

There's little point.

[(NSW)Greybones]

A little off-topic, but I’m personally glad you actually at least tried the Dragon Keys in Arbitrations, @Traumtulpe 🤗 (wouldn’t mind a -90% version myself 😏). It sounds like they didn’t quite cut it for you, but I’m curious how you went.

Many players don’t even try the broccoli before deciding it’s not for them 😕 

I do like the handicap idea, as I’m a proponent of choosing a personal limiter. Players customising their challenge could be a good idea, especially in a game like Warframe where personal preference already figures so heavily into how we play.

And then what would it look like for multiplayer 🤔 Instead of having the player base split up with established missions, one mission can hold players experiencing it in different ways

Edited May 29, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[DrivaMain]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

But you don't have any use for those resources or exp.  Unless the mode is going to give stuff like massive endo, kuva, potatoe, forma, rare mods, cosmetics, etc.

There's little point.

Hey, I do need those nano spores to keep my Energy Pads reserve in check. The addition of 100x blueprints drains my reserves at a very high rate.

[kwlingo]

Adding shield gating and reducing enemy scaling will result in all easy content.

[(PSN)poloslash18]

Everything will be easy if you decide to cheese it. Dark Souls is cheeseable, Bloodborne as well.

Hard mode won't be challenging but It'll be fun to play your favorite planet without gimping yourself.

Edited May 29, 2020 by (PS4)poloslash18

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

It sounds like they didn’t quite cut it for you, but I’m curious how you went.

The damage reduction was barely noticeable, the loss of shield irrelevant, the loss of speed a minor nuisance, and the loss of health made my dog die...

Overall I had more fun using the Keys than not, but my pet having low health is bothersome since it doesn't dodge anything and has no shield-gating.

[(NSW)Greybones]

9 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

The damage reduction was barely noticeable, the loss of shield irrelevant, the loss of speed a minor nuisance, and the loss of health made my dog die...

Overall I had more fun using the Keys than not, but my pet having low health is bothersome since it doesn't dodge anything and has no shield-gating.

Interesting. Not sure I’d equip the Hobbled Dragon key myself, since I’ve always found its impact a minor one (actually made a topic suggesting one way it could be made relevant again) and can agree that it’s more a nuisance at the moment 😛 ...Haven’t actually given it a real testrun though, so I’m gonna do that out of curiosity.

75% reduction across damage, shield, and health not having much of an impact is an interesting find 🤔 

I’m close(ish) to Arbitrations, so I’ll be able to go nuts when I get there. Would it be possible to share your build that you used in the meantime?

last edit: I’m looking forward too to future updates bringing additional survivability to pets.

Edited May 29, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[(PSN)Navalhabr]

Hard mode is already on the game, but you need to wait 20-40 min for that.

The ultra hard mode is already on the game, but you need to wait 40-60 min for that.

[Midas]

6 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Level 9999 is doable last I checked, so probably not.

ttk is 5.36-15ish seconds for a heat bramma modded for viral hm... on a corrupted heavy gunner level 9999... This game is a meme now.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Would it be possible to share your build that you used in the meantime?

Umbral Saryn, melee only, with the Mecha set, Blind Rage, Venom Dose, Quick Thinking and Hunter Adrenalin. I might replace Quick Thinking and Hunter Adrenalin though (for Rolling Guard and Primed Continuity I guess), since taking damage to health is undesirable with so little of it.

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Umbral Saryn, melee only, with the Mecha set, Blind Rage, Venom Dose, Quick Thinking and Hunter Adrenalin. I might replace Quick Thinking and Hunter Adrenalin though (for Rolling Guard and Primed Continuity I guess), since taking damage to health is undesirable with so little of it.

I kept assuming there’d be guns, but that was my mistake of making assumptions in the first place 😅 (assumptions are dumb, and I’ll keep in mind that melee is a thing in the future 😛 )

Thanks for this. Now I’ve got additional info to work with regarding high-level stuff

As an aside, I love the Mecha set 👍 

edit: I’m guessing the rest of your mods are what’s considered standard issue for Arbitrations

Edited May 29, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[Traumtulpe]

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

As an aside, I love the Mecha set

Yeah, its amazing when it works. The dog has a hard time keeping up and not getting lost though.

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I’m guessing the rest of your mods are what’s considered standard issue for Arbitrations

The only thing I didn't mention is Primed Sure Footed. With "Umbral" I meant all 3 Umbral mods.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Traumtulpe

[(XBOX)ALTBOULI]

I'm expecting a lot of threads soon complaining about pugs ruining the experience and that MR's of certain levels should not be allowed to play etc..

These type of thinly veiled E-peen threads are never a good look

[AzureTerra]

No, players will never be happy.

[Travis05]

You are underestimating a mission +100....

I have the feel you have no idea what you are talking about. You think enemies lv100 are a walk in the park? Thats a bit harder than a lv5 lich node.

I already struggle to kill enemies swiftly in one of those missions. Sure, i can still navigate the mission without worries, but i get stuck in some corridors until i finally kill everyone. My "flow" is interrupted (A way to describe it).

Well, if you use cheese and broken critics of course everything is easy. But dont tell me you can easily kill level 100 enemies with weapons like tiberon prime. Let me guess...you will use kuva brama

Edited May 29, 2020 by Travis05

[PsiWarp]

Depends if the enemies will have any modifiers or if we get negative effects too.

[Genitive]

It's probably going to be challenging for players who don't use hardcore meta builds, cheese tactics, or don't have the most powerful mods.

I think it's nice they are adding it, even if the rewards won't be any good. It's a step in the right direction, rewards can be added later.

17 minutes ago, Travis05 said:

Well, if you use cheese and broken critics of course everything is easy. But dont tell me you can easily kill level 100 enemies with weapons like tiberon prime. Let me guess...you will use kuva brama

This is what it boils down to. The game is quite challenging if you don't have a proper setup. But with all the AOE and skills that provide either invincibility or damage reduction, mods you can trivialize pretty much everything. That's why you have people who reach maximum enemy level and say it's easy.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 5 heures, Midas a dit :

ttk is 5.36-15ish seconds for a heat bramma modded for viral hm... on a corrupted heavy gunner level 9999... This game is a meme now.

That's not even the fastest thing, there are autokill buttons all over the game... 

il y a 49 minutes, Travis05 a dit :

You are underestimating a mission +100....

I have the feel you have no idea what you are talking about. You think enemies lv100 are a walk in the park? Thats a bit harder than a lv5 lich node.

I already struggle to kill enemies swiftly in one of those missions. Sure, i can still navigate the mission without worries, but i get stuck in some corridors until i finally kill everyone. My "flow" is interrupted (A way to describe it).

Well, if you use cheese and broken critics of course everything is easy. But dont tell me you can easily kill level 100 enemies with weapons like tiberon prime. Let me guess...you will use kuva brama

Tiberon Prime can two tap a lv 170 eximus in the simulacrum if you build it correctly, what are you on about? I feel it's mostly you that have no idea what you're talking about. 

The bramma isn't the only weapon in the game. If you use your brain and make a cohesive loadout, Lv 300- can be carried on weapons alone since the scaling nerf. Then there's melee which is 100% broken. Pretty much any decent melee wipes the floor with Lv 150-200 with zero effort on your part. Let alone for the actually good ones. 

 

To be honest about the rest of the conversation, I agree with Hawk about the challenge (MH sounds on point but I don't play it, I'll add Path of Exile whose community is comprised of mostly hardcore players). I believe this change is pretty much the first inequivocably good one I've seen in years. Been asking for a way to skip the boring slough through Lv 130- for years. I don't care what you put in there, even just the option of say playing a lith fissure at Lv 110 is enough. 

[Travis05]

hace 4 minutos, Autongnosis dijo:

Tiberon Prime can two tap a lv 170 eximus in the simulacrum if you build it correctly, what are you on about? I feel it's mostly you that have no idea what you're talking about. 

Serration, point strike, split chamber, malignant force, rime rounds, vital sense, vigilante armaments, vigilante supplies...and i dont remember the last mod i used tbh, i think it was shred. I wouldnt call it a bad build. Still cant two tap a lv170 eximus.

And even if i could, enemies dont come alone you know...i would say, it would take me more than just a couple seconds to dispatch a group.

I know the bramma isnt the only weapon in the game. Thanks, im aware

[DogsConkers]

Usual DE MO for new content = throw the vets a bone by making it crazy hard and then nerf it when people start whining. No problem with that, totally understandable and everyone's happy. The difference here is we already know how difficult it's going to be. 

Ah well better than nothing looking forward to it anyway bring it on.

[Monolake]

It will be same easy mode, you could solo it with all 4 dragon keys equipped, enemies barely scale past lvl80 anymore. Unless they add some special modifiers it will be nothing special.