Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[Duality52]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

We’ll be continuing to observe how the Xoris interacts with the above when The Steel Path Update arrives in your hands, and our apologies again for the wait. 

A bit off-topic, but how about giving Glaives another pass? The Old Blood didn't do Glaives that many favors.

[ZenPaime]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

And yet you agree with my example which is exactly the same as what you were proposing, just using a different mod as an example, so hardly a different reading.

Whether it's the Gladiator set or Pressure Point, my point is that outright removing any benefit from these mods is a nerf to the ability, as as a result you will have a consistently worse performance.

You know what the worst part is? It is not even in the patch note....

[DragoonStorm1]

54 minutes ago, TwistedBOLT_ said:

What the xoris did: Allowed you to go not naramon or Swift momentum.
What it didn't do: Increase your damage. It just makes gameplay less clunky.
The balance for the thing came from the fact that you were unable to use good riven mods as the dispo is and should have stayed bad instead of nerfing the weapon itself.

 

This is absolutely true. The balance came from the fact that this added easier playstyle choices at the cost of not being overpowered, because of inability to put in good riven mods.
Staying at 12x is just not as strong as a naramon-decaying 11x with rivens on a good weapon.

On the other hand, I disagree with what's below (oh man, wrestling with the quoting options here xD)

I certainly hope they don't implement such a "fix" (read: absolute nerf) because it's simply quite impossible to build up combo counter with things that have waves (Desert wind) that don't count towards combo.... or only count towards combo once (especially on Whipclaw and Landslide).
(I very much prefer building up combo counter on a melee, switching to exalted melee, playing it till it decays, switching back to build combo.. makes for quite dynamic and not stagnant OP gameplay.)

Though, admittedly, a true FIX would actually fix those discrepancies where exalted melees don't build up combo counter fast, like normal melees do. for both those reasons^

59 minutes ago, TwistedBOLT_ said:

The true fix should have been to simply make exalted weapons to scale with their own combo instead of the gladiator set buffing your exalted weapon by reading your normal melees combo.

[TastyTaro]

1 час назад, [DE]Megan сказал:

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon

... that sounds like ah... oversight? to put it lightly?

i mean certain powers scale with melee weapons and certain sets, and you are saying that by adding a melee weapon with infinity melee combo was not your intention? right.

[Sabuuchi]

Pouring one out for my homie, the Xoris.

Can I get an F?

[TKDancer]

1 hour ago, Thanathros said:

... I never got why people complain about nerfing certain combinations that would be a "must have" to play. 

Seems fair to me.

nerfing the things that gave those abilities a much needed boost and then just not do anything about said boost being completely gone is bad design

its one thing to make xoris not the single go-to weapon for those frames and instead give us alternatives or buff those abilities, its another to simply remove that synergy and call it a day

[Albion_Vortigern]

Thanks once again for making the majority of your player base feel cheated and ripped off for investing into something fun 

[ZenPaime]

1 minute ago, DragoonStorm1 said:

 

This is absolutely true. The balance came from the fact that this added easier playstyle choices at the cost of not being overpowered, because of inability to put in good riven mods.
Staying at 12x is just not as strong as a naramon-decaying 11x with rivens on a good weapon.

On the other hand, I disagree with what's below (oh man, wrestling with the quoting options here xD)

I certainly hope they don't implement such a "fix" (read: absolute nerf) because it's simply quite impossible to build up combo counter with things that have waves (Desert wind) that don't count towards combo.... or only count towards combo once (especially on Whipclaw and Landslide).
(I very much prefer building up combo counter on a melee, switching to exalted melee, playing it till it decays, switching back to build combo.. makes for quite dynamic and not stagnant OP gameplay.)

Though, admittedly, a true FIX would actually fix those discrepancies where exalted melees don't build up combo counter fast, like normal melees do. for both those reasons^

Well it is not like build up combo or what, it is the fact that, exalted melee even when they build up combo they cannot stack the gladiator set mod

[Arilbur]

Just give us the ability to separately mod each ability. "Restricting player choice" is completely incorrect as without Xoris players will simply go for the second strongest stat stick.

The very existence of a stat stick is what reduces player choice since you can´t use certain melee builds or (weapons) without making one of the Warframe´s abilities near useless.

This solves nothing, just shifts the problem.

[OwlingFrame]

Not gonna lie, this is incredibly bad.

It was more of a QoL then anything else, and it shows that people was willing to trade most powerful weapon slot in the game for that particular synergy, because frankly, Xoris is a terrible weapon by itself, and glaives been kinda-sorta garbage since melee rework. And if i understood this correctly, you are willing to introduce a whole new mechanic just to screw this one particular synergy? Thats bad. Why not do the same with Naramon, while we at it? And sure, add this mechanic to every combo time increase mod in the game, because Ash is only slightly above-average right now, and clearly needs a nerf. Point is - there should be more of such synergies, not less, because all this achieved is removed what was a single reason to use Xoris instead of rivened stat-stick.

Even worse is Gladiator situation. There is no reason to exlude exalted weapons from anything combo related in the first place, so i really hope that this fix is also first step to un-trashing exalted weapons and making them properly compatible with gladiator, blood rush, and the rest. Exalted weapons are not as good as usual melee, and honestly should not be tuned around being that way. Do i even need to mention, that making a melee-focused set that is kinda-sorta underpowered and then making melee-oriented frames (Wukong and Excal, namely) NOT benefit from it adds nothing to the game?

 

[Magus_Tahir]

6 minutes ago, CrimsonBladeZeta said:

The developers never play their game, so don't expect they will understand. 

Cute, go follow them on Twitch and then see what they do and get back to me. Pablo has some good stuff on coding as well if that's your thing.

[ZenPaime]

1 minute ago, OwlingFrame said:

Not gonna lie, this is incredibly bad.

It was more of a QoL then anything else, and it shows that people was willing to trade most powerful weapon slot in the game for that particular synergy, because frankly, Xoris is a terrible weapon by itself, and glaives been kinda-sorta garbage since melee rework. And if i understood this correctly, you are willing to introduce a whole new mechanic just to screw this one particular synergy? Thats bad. Why not do the same with Naramon, while we at it? And sure, add this mechanic to every combo time increase mod in the game, because Ash is only slightly above-average right now, and clearly needs a nerf. Point is - there should be more of such synergies, not less, because all this achieved is removed what was a single reason to use Xoris instead of rivened stat-stick.

Even worse is Gladiator situation. There is no reason to exlude exalted weapons from anything combo related in the first place, so i really hope that this fix is also first step to un-trashing exalted weapons and making them properly compatible with gladiator, blood rush, and the rest. Exalted weapons are not as good as usual melee, and honestly should not be tuned around being that way. Do i even need to mention, that making a melee-focused set that is kinda-sorta underpowered and then making melee-oriented frames (Wukong and Excal, namely) NOT benefit from it adds nothing to the game?

 

What can I say? They don't play their game. In their ''imagination'' Exalted melee weapons are still the best of the best, only nerfs no love. 

[aquapollo]

so happy I decided not to put forma into the Xoris I knew this was coming lol

[Chroia]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

as a result you will have a consistently worse performance.

Under which perspective, DE deciding to increase enemy armor scaling per level is a nerf to Iron Staff (among other things), because indirect nerfs are nerfs.

I agree that, by your definition, it's a nerf.
But I don't share your definition. We disagree on the scope in question.
So yes, different reading.

[ZenPaime]

1 minute ago, Magus_Tahir said:

Cute, go follow them on Twitch and then see what they do and get back to me. Pablo has some good stuff on coding as well if that's your thing.

At least the way they balance the game doesn't seem like they play their game. Please, pressing a few buttons in the game doesn't mean you play it. 

[Zoero]

And just like that, no one will use the xoris again.

[Starz]

9 minutes ago, DragoonStorm1 said:

because of inability to put in good riven mods

Don't worry they will be fixing that "soon".

I don't see why they let sudo-exalted weapons scale off rivens anyways. 

They need to fix that problem by making them have their own modding config.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Chroia said:

DE deciding to increase enemy armor scaling per level is a nerf to Iron Staff (among other things), because indirect nerfs are nerfs.

Making a change to the Iron Staff denying it from benefitting from "x", be it Gladiator set or Pressure Point, would not be an indirect nerf.

That would be a very direct nerf.

[LULAWS]

may I ask how this wasn't obvious from the start and why the "solution" is to make the weapon irrelevant and buff Gara? 

[kyori]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

In turn, we have planned to only change the interactions with the Xoris directly.

I think let this be remembered that whenever a new weapon with special abilities that has similar impact on Warframe's abilities be cut off from the respective Warframes before launching the weapon(s), else it might looked like giving players false hope.

[-CLM-Joker]

44 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Our plan is not to nerf the base powers of the Warframes involved

I'm not going to lie, I was afraid the outcome would have been a nerf to those abilities.
I'm glad to see this is not the case. This was a good call.

 

On another note
In regards to warframe abilities that scale off melee mods, like:

• Ash Bladestorm
• Atlas Landslide
• Khora Whipclaw
• Gara’s Shattered

Any plan to add exalted weapons to them too rather than use the equipped melee mods?

Here's why:
Expecially for Khora's Whipclaw, players tend to rely on a "stat sick", a weapon who's only purpose is to be a vessel for the build of that ability.
As a result, players will gravitate towards using a specific weapon and that weapon only when playing Khora, because of the investment they put into it.
Giving those frames their respective exalted weapons would allow for more variety and experimentation on the weapon arsenal.

[Nazzami]

Doesn't the need for specific stat stick melee weapons for abilities also limit "player choice" or does that only apply when the item in question provides a advantage?

[Oorel]

3 minutes ago, Zoero said:

And just like that, no one will use the xoris again.

yeah, like all glaives, I like them actually, but they are not good.

man, this change is just making me sad.

[SubmissiveTaihou]

Good change and the whole mod system and this post as a result isn't messed up(why this doesn't happen to rivens?)

[Chroia]

8 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Making a change to the Iron Staff denying it from benefitting from "x", be it Gladiator set or Pressure Point, would not be an indirect nerf.

That would be a very direct nerf.

The difference is that the Gladiator mods don't go on your Iron Staff.
So yes, your example is a direct nerf, removing the gladiator set bonus is not.

Which is why I said what I said with regards to the segment of the OP I quoted:
I understood from the OP that the reason the Xoris is getting this change is that it enables the combo-mods affecting abilities with no downside (beyond foregoing weapon augments or high-disp rivens).
Disallow the combo-mods, and you both treat the root of the problem, and don't need to mess with the Xoris's gimmick wrt exalted abilities - which still increases ability damage by up to x3.