The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Arkennstar]

Setting aside the horrible decision to nerf the subsumed abilities (which is classic DE by this point), speaking of the reduction in MR for being able to use this feature is such a bad idea.

This feature involves literally destroying your warframes and tinkering and mixing and matching. That kind of feature requires a very deep understanding of warframe abilities and their synergy with other abilities. Players with MR8 are not even "supposed" to have cleared star chart (speedrunners and power levelers aside). They shouldnt/wont even be in possession of frames like Saryn, Nidus, Harrow, etc, let alone understand the deeper intricacies of many of the even starter frames. It comes through experience. At MR8 that experience is severely lacking. Even MR15 was a bit low for such a feature I'd have said. 20+ would be more fitting.

I don't know what prompted this change in the MR requirement but I sure as hell hope it has nothing to do with making people buy warframes with plat. I usually trust DE with not being greedy in a monetary sense, but I legit do not see a plausible reason otherwise to let low MR players indulge in this kind of activity.

[Pulsar_Prime]

If there were other good options for subsumed abilities then I think there would be a good amount of people using other abilities that aren't roar or eclipse, and they wouldn't be the only things people pick, perhaps reconsider some of the other abilities that we are being given?

[selig_fay]

Just now, SpentCasings said:

I have 70%+ damage resistance after I use it....anything after that dies to gunfire or a sword afterwards....do you just stand int he middle of rooms and let things shoot you or are you being mobile?

Yes, when I'm too lazy to move. On the other hand, it does not change the fact that it is functional, for example when you hack into the console.

[KikuVasNormandy]

hace 7 horas, trst dijo:

Every single time they've made changes shortly after release we get every other person that day one'd the content crawl out of the woodwork demanding compensations and refunds. And every time they make them long after we somehow get the exact same complaints and demands with no justified reasons.

The system was announced multiple times as being subject to change and it got changed. It shouldn't be surprising that people manage to still get upset considering how this community is yet it still manages to be.

And yes as far as I'm concerned the changes are fully justified and welcomed. The only thing I question is why the MR restriction was lowered as while I understand their reasoning I still don't believe it wise to allow "early" players to have access to such a system. Yet we'll still get players with 1k+ hours into the game complaining that they donated a frame without knowing that it would be lost or that they somehow used the one with all their Forma so I guess it doesn't matter what the restriction is.

I agree, the only part that really dissapoints me is the lowered MR requirement, 8 is way too low for new players to access that. Even more, they ae going to feel miserable farming some of the normal frames at that point just to use them for the Helmith, even if only to clear a WF slot. If MR15 was too high, why to use the Arca Plasmor as a reference? That one is MR10, move the MR to something like that and presto... if I remember correctly even the Ayatan stars autoinstall was from MR 10 onwards. My personal choice would been MR12.

EDIT: Also, being somebody that deals with people learning to analyze astronomy data and make decisions based in their previous experiences.... MR8 is way too early for new players to know what they are really doing there.

[SpentCasings]

Just now, selig_fay said:

Yes, when I'm too lazy to move. On the other hand, it does not change the fact that it is functional, for example when you hack into the console.

ok, the rest of us Move when we play, and I press 3 when i hack consoles so i'm not dying. The skill is fairly useless and for the average player does not fit in the kit because 4. Also you need an augment to make it work better.. The one niche example requires TWO mods to work and one your other allies have to actively be using in order for it to have an effect. 

[(NSW)Lorkhan]

You do realise that Trintity 1 sucks... it doesnt even work with her other power. It only has nich uses! Her whole kit works excepté for that 1 power

[movix2001]

MR8 :kekw: when i was a MR8 I had like 4 frames and u r telling me that I could replace my abilitys at the moment when I didn't even understand moding properly?

[bibmobello]

18 minutes ago, (NSW)Lorkhan said:

Trinity is over-rated now. Wisp is much better is all ways

trinity ha a 2 totally broken with the augmented mod, she can kill any enemy at every level in less than a second, gets over shields continuously and unlimited energy.

[VohuManah]

I... really don't get the hate on DE for nerfing meta before it even happens.
If the community had more brain cells than haha Roar haha Larva they wouldn't be nerfed. DE realized just from feedback that they'd be generating yet another uninspired, dull, braindead meta.
So they nerfed it, and I'm glad they did
Just shows how much interest and knowledge most people have of Warframes outside of this current disgusting meta.
Note how a lot of good abilities remain untouched, simply because little to no people were hyped for them. Of course DE won't give Roar 200% to all warframes, that was pretty obvious.
Sometimes the Warframe community simply goes completely braindead and then gets disappointed at DE, when their decisions were to be expected.
On the topic of the MR lowering to 8, don't forget that we're getting new consoles this year, and a lot of veterans might be interested in starting over.
That is all. Now stop crying about Roar and put something actually useful on your Warframes. There's 43 abilities + the Helminth ones and y'all are crying about 4 or 5. Smh my head
All these flavors and you chose to be salty

[Keyhound]

Just now, (NSW)Lorkhan said:

You do realise that Trintity 1 sucks... it doesnt even work with her other power. It only has nich uses! Her whole kit works excepté for that 1 S#&$ty power

which is why most people will drop it and swap it for something better.

[JmDaFuz]

For starters yes i know, i know... ive set the expectations for this post with the title and people will be ready to defend them selfs.
This is fair guys!! Im not here to argue against you im here as i feel our arguments are not thourght through well enough and the path to be taken needs to be considered. That said i also get the disapointment. 

The abilitiy changes are bit or maybe very disapointing as ones been looking forward to using it. Heck lava was just a beast choice for me but now because im running low range builds it might not work for me even half as well. The mr changes i also get as it feels like a nod was given to players of higher ranks as ensurance that hey look you may not feel heard but heres content we give with your interests in mind specifically. 

When that is said however for this part in particular i need to be a little rough...Give DE some wiggle room people.... DE needs to be able to make changes. If they cant change in develupment based on new information then they aint even allowed to take into account feedback and course correct. Its dammed if they do dammed if they dont. They litteraly gave the responce that it was due to abilities being an overwhealmingly strong choice compared to others thus limiting options not encouraging experimentation. Its disapointing yes when they have to do it but the alternative is that DE cant announce anything until their product and all its itterations is final. Thats not quite ideal either..

The main debate though i must say i understand to the bottom of my hart.

MR changes i sort of get it from both sides here and i get the desire for being listend to as players heavily invested in warframe. The argument however tgat is used i feel leaves a lot to be desired as its honnestly setting a dangorous precedent and might not be what we need.

The argument is that DE finally adds content with more experienced players in mind and that making advanced systems like this as readily accessible as they will be is a big problem for players getting overwhelmed by choice as well as dilute the spectrum of people that can make demands for said content. While this is indeed true a hard lock i feel is a rather counter productive idea and precident to set for multiple reasons. Fx Steel path is tecnically end game content even if it does not have the seal of veterans only its stil content that requires understanding and arsenal to enter and suceed in. On top you can also bring your lower rank friends if they need resources. win win.

Helminth i feel is rather similar in this chase with being soft locked as It Will most likely require a ton of exotic resources.  Basically i guess that even if the low mastery rank entry is there, Allowing players to dabble a bit the extent they can dabble will be severely limited compared to a older player and their stock piles. Its a more soft lock that allows people that are hype but not high enough mr to not have to wait days before getting to it but also stil not have full access.

 

[(NSW)Lorkhan]

à l’instant, Keyhound a dit :

which is why most people will drop it and swap it for something better.

Exactly! I was going to put smite from oberon to make her more usefull during hunts, 

[Keyhound]

Just now, PhoenixParadox said:

I... really don't get the hate on DE for nerfing meta before it even happens.
If the community had more brain cells than haha Roar haha Larva they wouldn't be nerfed. DE realized just from feedback that they'd be generating yet another uninspired, dull, braindead meta.
So they nerfed it, and I'm glad they did
Just shows how much interest and knowledge most people have of Warframes outside of this current disgusting meta.
Note how a lot of good abilities remain untouched, simply because little to no people were hyped for them. Of course DE won't give Roar 200% to all warframes, that was pretty obvious.
Sometimes the Warframe community simply goes completely braindead and then gets disappointed at DE, when their decisions were to be expected.
On the topic of the MR lowering to 8, don't forget that we're getting new consoles this year, and a lot of veterans might be interested in starting over.
That is all. Now stop crying about Roar and put something actually useful on your Warframes. There's 43 abilities + the Helminth ones and y'all are crying about 4 or 5. Smh my head
All these flavors and you chose to be salty

the nerf doesnt fix anything, people will still pick those abilities above most others due to how bad they are. they could literally cap roar at 50 or even 25% and it still would be a nobrainer above well of life or desiccation or decoy.

nerfing it because people will pick it more makes no sense when it wont change the fact people will pick it more...

[Evanescent]

Please reconsider lowering MR requirement to MR 8. MR 8 players are not ready for the resource sink and requirements for helminth. 

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Mate you don't have to apologize for stating your opinion. You're free to it just as others are free to disagree.

[VohuManah]

1 minute ago, Evanescent said:

Please reconsider lowering MR requirement to MR 8. MR 8 players are not ready for the resource sink and requirements for helminth. 

 

Uhh.. then they won't be able to do it. What MR 8 player that didn't get carried or is a veteran starting over has enough resources for Helminth? None. They'll unlock it, they'll look at the requirements and they won't be able to do much. If they sink all their resources without reading, then they shouldn't be playing Warframe.

[(NSW)Mbek]

I love how people who says MR isn't indicator of experience and skill are implying that majority of low MR players are very experienced and skilled.

[selig_fay]

4 minutes ago, SpentCasings said:

ok, the rest of us Move when we play, and I press 3 when i hack consoles so i'm not dying. The skill is fairly useless and for the average player does not fit in the kit because 4. Also you need an augment to make it work better.. The one niche example requires TWO mods to work and one your other allies have to actively be using in order for it to have an effect. 

Think what you want. But this is a good ability now. And even if trinity has a good alternative, it will look good on frames without this alternative, like creating an immortal turret chroma that gets energy as a bonus. On the other hand, if I were you, I would pray for a blessing. The original blessing was invulnerable and had no radius. It got a lot of nerfs and changes.

[JmDaFuz]

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Mate you don't have to apologize for stating your opinion. You're free to it just as others are free to disagree.

yeah i know its just im more so just tired of internet drama... It would be nice if one could create a civil forrum for once that makes people feel heard and understood and allows people to inject perspectives.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, JmDaFuz said:

yeah i know its just im more so im just tired of internet drama... It would be nice if one could create a civil forrum for once that makes people feel heard and understood and allows people to inject perspectives.

Not in this lifetime unfortunately mate but I hear ya 

[danberhe]

hace 8 horas, DrivaMain dijo:

Would you rather :

1. Nerf it before release and have 1 million people complain before release?
 

2. Nerf it after release and have 10 million people complain after release?

i don't know why everyone is surprised they nerfed roar and eclipse and somewhat defy.

but the other nerfs are more questionable.

[Ferbsol]

Cita

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

This is extremelly lame and feels like a reaction to people bicthing, this wont change the * meta * unless u make them worthless honestly this will just make everyone mad. Another bad choice nerf we had several this year (ie Limbo 2 duration on scarlet spear and infinite combo for pseudo exalted with Xoris)

[LSG501]

MR8 is just too low, hell at mr8 most players won't even know how most frames synergise or can synergise with the other abilities.   

It's obvious why this is being done and it is nothing to do with opening it up earlier for new players so they can unlock the 'easier' ones first, it's to sell resource boosters and to try and sell them the frames to subsume via plat...

Yes we know you need to make money to keep the game going but some things should not be accessible to 'new' players, they just aren't ready for them, not to mention how it's going to totally screw up the balance of the game for lower mr players. 

If you must lower the mr level, go mr12, it's half way house between what we don't like and what you want to put it at..... what is the point in having 30 mr levels if you're going to unlock everything before you've even covered a quarter of the things that you need to reach mr30. 

[(XBOX)Vaktalor]

17 hours ago, (XB1)boltpokejogador said:

Before: Omg this is broken it will break the game wtf DE this is so bad

Now: It's getting nerfed?? Wtf DE this is so bad

 

They literally said in the last dev workshop that it was all subject to change, why are people even mad at this...

They said that abilities on the list were subject to change for another ability in a frame's kit at least that was the impression given on the post. They said nothing about ability stats being changed
Before the list of abilities show it said

"The following table outlines the current Ability a given Warframe will provide on the Subsume action. This is subject to change before launch."

I would be a bit disappointed that some of the picked ability was changed yes, but my issue that has summoned me here on this forum is that they are just nerfing the abilities without giving numbers instead of just picking another ability and buff that.

[bibmobello]

Just now, LSG501 said:

MR8 is just too low, hell at mr8 most players won't even know how most frames synergise or can synergise with the other abilities.   

It's obvious why this is being done and it is nothing to do with opening it up earlier for new players so they can unlock the 'easier' ones first, it's to sell resource boosters and to try and sell them the frames to subsume via plat...

Yes we know you need to make money to keep the game going but some things should not be accessible to 'new' players, they just aren't ready for them, not to mention how it's going to totally screw up the balance of the game for lower mr players. 

If you must lower the mr level, go mr12, it's half way house between what we don't like and what you want to put it at..... what is the point in having 30 mr levels if you're going to unlock everything before you've even covered a quarter of the things that you need to reach mr30. 

We will have "fun" killing level 10 enemies again...