RAILJACK ARMOR CHANGED since Deimos update

[Mettallus]

I am getting hull ruptures like crazy in Railjack now, something has changed to the armor values of the ship. What makes it worse is that the tactical UI does not show the bottom of the ship if you are the pilot; I have been bringing this up forever but now that I am getting  far more hull ruptures it is making it unplayable. Not to mention the invisible items I am hitting in the middle of nowhere. DE was this unintentional or is there a master plan to set up for the Corpus in the future? Either way if it stays the way it is it is a huge FAIL. Please fix.

Thx

[Magnulast]

I can agree onto the invisible objects, they are typically around pillars towers. Invisible asteroids? idk anymore but about the hull ruptures, it's been the same for me though I haven't played it much after deimos dropped. 

[minininja77]

I have to agree to both of these, I have noticed a significant increase in the amount of hull ruptures since the update, and OMFG getting stuck on space dust is making flying the railjack just painful and I enjoy taking my ship out for a spin and I can deal with the ruptures as that at least gives the people joining my crew something to do but getting stuck on nothing is just making me not want to take the ship out of dry dock

[Neurohax]

Yup, played a couple RJ rounds yesterday and pilot was unable to fly through most of the map. I was able to fly through in AW to pick up resources.

We had constant hull ruptures in a maxed out ship with only 1-2 crewships and no fighters in the area. And I mean CONSTANT. As soon as 1 was fixed, another would appear before Ceph Cy's voice line. This increased the chance of fires, which had to be ignored because in the time it took to extinguish, another rupture would occur.

Totally broken.

[Kaiga]

The railjack host last night got into a fight with one of the players because his maxed out railjack "was made of swiss cheese", and hit catastrophic failure after getting hit by a singular veil proxima crewship shot.

 

That's completely insane. Is DE that bad at coding that they cant completely throw some other unrelated part of the game? 

[trst]

So is it possible to get a rupture now without going afk? Hopefully that isn't a bug and they're finally fixing the mistakes they made.

[Murox]

2 hours ago, Mettallus said:

Not to mention the invisible items I am hitting in the middle of nowhere.

Spaghetti code so strong it's manifesting in space.

[DrivaMain]

It's either the asteroid or Railjack collision box got 10x bigger. Looks like some code of Corpus Railjack managed to crept into Arcana.

[killerJoke66]

20 minutes ago, Murox said:

Spaghetti code so strong it's manifesting in space.

🤣wouldnt be suprised at this point

[Aadi880]

After I saw this thread, I went on ahead to try it out.

I felt absolutely no difference at all when it came to the amount of armor my railjack had. It was still as tanky as ever.

However, I did notice ruptures happening a lot more frequently. So there's that.

Can you guys just check whether you've made a mistake of unequipping mods? Or rather, if anything was unequipped with you realizing it?

[Butterfly85]

Well that explains why I spent most of the time on my partner's maxed out RJ fixing hull breaches then🤨

[Prexades]

Just tested it myself and can confirm that the hulls have become more fragile. Before the update hull breaches were relatively rare for me but right now they seem to be very common.

[Kaotyke]

2 hours ago, Prexades said:

Just tested it myself and can confirm that the hulls have become more fragile. Before the update hull breaches were relatively rare for me but right now they seem to be very common

Yeah, more XP for engineering.

The breaches were very, VERY rare, to the point I could do 3-4 missions in a row and not get a single one.

[Vaml77]

yes....we cant fly because invisible walls. Looks like map is tinny now...

[Hierarch777]

The better question is, why does that even happen? I read through the patch notes, literally no changes listed for Railjack. How do changes to Cambion Drift create bugs in other places? What the actual fook?! 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

7 hours ago, Murox said:

Spaghetti code so strong it's manifesting in space.

live footage of raw Warframe Code being removed from the game:

I just hope, for the sake of however many people are still playing Railjack, that you won't have to wait until Corpus Railjack to get a fix. 

34 minutes ago, Hierarch777 said:

The better question is, why does that even happen? I read through the patch notes, literally no changes listed for Railjack. How do changes to Cambion Drift create bugs in other places? What the actual fook?! 

I'm not a coder or anything but  I've been told code is apparently like looking after the worst kid in the world: it needs constant attention, never does anything you want it to, and just when you think it's fine it goes and does something really stupid and makes a mess, often in ways you never thought it could, like this.

[Krilexis]

Might test out RJ this week end, still need the Spectra Vandal and some Anomaly shards. I remember having quite frequently hull breaches last time if its worse idk what to do. In general I end up solo and Cy does not speak while out of RJ and I constantly check the RJ health to come back if its low.

[Aadi880]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I'm not a coder or anything but  I've been told code is apparently like looking after the worst kid in the world: it needs constant attention, never does anything you want it to, and just when you think it's fine it goes and does something really stupid and makes a mess, often in ways you never thought it could, like this.

 

59 minutes ago, (NSW)IronElemental said:

im neither a coder nor a parent, but isnt "the worst kid in the world" simply the product of the worst parent in the world?

🤔

Computer code moves in, strange, mysterious ways.

It may choose to not do anything at all.

It may do something way too literally than what was asked.

It may tell you that there is an error on line number 341 when your code is only 32 lines long.

Or perhaps... you missed a semicolon somewhere.

Maybe some of you may enjoy watching this video, and its explanation video:

Spoiler

the rapidly dwindling sanity of valve programmers as expressed through code comments - YouTube

understanding the code that sparked anger in valve's programmers

Never trust program code. Not even your own.

[minininja77]

8 hours ago, Aadi880 said:

After I saw this thread, I went on ahead to try it out.

I felt absolutely no difference at all when it came to the amount of armor my railjack had. It was still as tanky as ever.

However, I did notice ruptures happening a lot more frequently. So there's that.

Can you guys just check whether you've made a mistake of unequipping mods? Or rather, if anything was unequipped with you realizing it?

No its not the lack of tanky my RJ is still just as beefy as it was prior to the update it just has holes getting poked in it like its made of tin foil, the health on it stays up where it should for its armor level and DE's nerf to RJ level

[Troposphere6]

The deimos arcana update had multiple patches for railjack bundled into it, it's not unthinkable that one of those fixes caused the problems your dealing with perhaps you should report a bug.

[o0Despair0o]

Chances of this getting fixed are about as high as the chances of NPC crews actually being implemented in our lifetime.

Meaning that you got better chances of winning the lottery twice in a row.

[vanaukas]

7 hours ago, Troposphere6 said:

The deimos arcana update had multiple patches for railjack bundled into it, it's not unthinkable that one of those fixes caused the problems your dealing with perhaps you should report a bug.

^

[Viges]

[nslay]

20 hours ago, Aadi880 said:

 

Computer code moves in, strange, mysterious ways.

It may choose to not do anything at all.

It may do something way too literally than what was asked.

It may tell you that there is an error on line number 341 when your code is only 32 lines long.

Or perhaps... you missed a semicolon somewhere.

Maybe some of you may enjoy watching this video, and its explanation video:

  Reveal hidden contents

the rapidly dwindling sanity of valve programmers as expressed through code comments - YouTube

understanding the code that sparked anger in valve's programmers

Never trust program code. Not even your own.

You can't miss a semicolon in a native language like C++... the compiler would throw a tantrum and not produce Warframe.exe or whatever supporting libraries. Though there are some really really bad things that you can do in a language like C++ that is extraordinarily hard to find. You'd (maybe) notice in random program stability. The compiler can at least catch things like missing semicolons, typos, misuse of types, misuse of functions, missing dependencies, etc... before ever producing the program or libraries themselves (make a mistake? Can't run something you don't have because the compiler refused to make it for you).

On the other hand, I hear Warframe is also a bunch of Lua scripts! Yeah... you can definitely make typos, misuse types/functions and having missing dependencies in a scripting language and have it run correctly most of the time. Just by the very nature of scripting languages, an interpreter reads the individual statements and runs them at runtime. As it branches through conditions, it may never encounter statements with typos or misused types/functions that are present in a script. That is very scary... You can have a script run flawlessly 99% of the time and have it run for hours and then it encounters some unusual combination of conditions that reach problematic code that would never compile in a real native statically-typed programming language.

IMO, scripting is only meant to solve small and simple problems. When your script is only a maximum of hundreds of lines of code and solves a small and simple problem, the possibility of making a typo, misusing functions/types, and other extraneous errors are significantly reduced. An individual person can "debug" the script in their head and find all the problems without the help of a compiler or debugger. When you start solving complicated problems with thousands upon thousands of lines of code of script (and written by multiple people) that are expected to run reliably for a long duration of time, that's where you get into problems with scripting languages!

It's hard to fully describe how awful scripting languages can be... like I don't know... how about Python?

Look at all the things this might mean because arguments a and b are not typed:
 

Quote

def f(a,b):
  return a+b

f(2, 5) # Returns 7

f("a", "b") # Returns "ab"

f([ 1 ], [ 2 ]) # Returns [1 ,2]

f("3", 4) # Uhh? I actually don't know off the top of my head! Could be 7, "7" or "34" maybe?

f(np.zeros([4]), 5) # Returns [5, 5, 5, 5]

Or like you can do this...
 

Quote

x = 5.0

# Complicated code that uses variable 'x' here

x = [ 2, 7 ] # Now the same variable x is a list when it used to be a number...

if veryVeryRareCondition:
  y = x + 2.0 # Should have been used before x's meaning was changed... now the Python interpreter will probably error out if veryVeryRareCondition is True (otherwise silently ignore this as if nothing is wrong!).

This is awful! I can't stand it... if Warframe is actually a very large collection of Lua scripts, I am simply amazed that it doesn't have more problems! There is so much that can go wrong and probably exponential numbers of rare code paths with problematic code that can't be analyzed because scripting languages afford no apriori guarantees about typing which ties into consistent meaning, correct use of variables, functions, etc...

I think it's fine to use small scripts to solve simple problems. I otherwise look to statically-typed compiled languages that protect me at compile time... so many kinds of errors possible in scripting languages are excluded by such languages.

[Aadi880]

57 minutes ago, nslay said:

Look at all the things this might mean because arguments a and b are not typed:
 

Quote

def f(a,b):
  return a+b

f("3", 4) # Uhh? I actually don't know off the top of my head! Could be 7, "7" or "34" maybe?

That will be an error. You are essentially doing "3"+4 on the return statement. This is not a real statement in Python as it will result in a TypeError. (You can't add an integer to a string via addition operation).

And yes, according to Steve in an old devstream, "Warframe almost entirely runs on scripts". Its also why you see so many "fixed a script error...." fixes on the patch-notes. 

Its worth noting that the Evolution Engine is DE's own proprietary, and have stated multiple times they are "modularizing" it. I believe 80% of all bugs and unmentioned changes from the patch notes (Like this one) seems to be purely because DE is changing their engine behind the scenes. Most changes to the engine are often not worth mentioning, largely because most players are not interested in them (Or rather, won't understand them).