For the love of god no more corpus spaceship defense for sorties!

[Blyker]

• The map is huge! My Speed nova hardly helps here in speeding this up since the wave runs out before it reaches the end.
• Mobs get stuck or better cannot find a path to the target since it's so far away! 6/10 waves had a stuck/non agro mob!
• My friends do not even do sortie anymore when this is a mission
• With randoms took me 19minutes 5 seconds! (and they were not even bad!)

This map looks great! Plays really bad in sorties!

 

[Artekkor]

I don't think its the map issue. Its the gamemode issues.

Defense is one of the oldest game modes in the game... And one of the most outdated. Its long, its boring, its teeth-grindingly frustruating.
You stand and wait for enemies to come to you effectively 1 by 1. Spawn rates are horrible, the wave takes too long to take out and so on and so on.

Its the only game mode i outright hate. #*!%ing snoozefest. DE need to rework the gamemode itself, not remove the map from sortie. It could be a pleasant mission to play, but it just isnt.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Don't really run sorties, but yeah, this map is really badly suited for defense. It's too big, enemies keep getting stuck everywhere, they take ages to get to the pod, when they do get to the pod, they keep ducking on the railings to the side making them annoying to shoot, it's also really badly designed to see where enemies are coming from in all directions due to the way each cardinal point is segmented by structures and the fact it's on a pyramid like shaped slope means you can't really see where the enemies are coming ,forcing you to constantly do a 360 sweep around the pod to make sure you kill everyone that shows up one by one on all sides.

Suggestion to fix problem:

• Short Term Solution : I noticed it's much less tedious using a necramech. The fact the Mechs are slightly taller than warframes plus the fact they have the Mausolon to gatling gun the hell out of people coming allows them to scan the four sides and shoot downwards at enemies, making it less tedious to shoot the coming troops than frames that get zero visibilty downwards and have to constantly rotate around the pod. Hopefully once we can deploy our mechs everywhere and the XP is awarded correctly to us when doing so it'll be a way to make said mission a little less tedious.
• Medium Term Solution : You guys should disable the pod moving up and down and make it spawn at the bottom and stay there. It's mostly fine when it's at the bottom of the pyramid, it mostly sucks when it's at the top of it... So remove the top and keep the bottom part.
• Long Term Solution : Keep the map for Interception like it is already, but retire it as a defense map and make a map that's better suited for defense. I mean Corpus is one of the main factions and they deserve fun defense map... Heck , why not just remake the old defense maps, they were much better imho ( the ones with the pod on a central platforms and with a top section with railings and parkour opportunities was pretty sweet).

Don't necessarily agree about killing defense, I think it's an okay gamemode when done occasionally, and it has it's usage if only for the leveling that gets done in nodes like Akkad and Hieracon, but I think it needs a level bump to start at let's say the equivalent of wave 15 - 20... Right now the first 10 Waves hardly give any XP and feel like the obligatory chore you have to do to get the the proper XP... Same with survival really, you have to suffer through ten minutes of hardly any enemies spawning due to low enemy density, then you start to get enemies after that. Oh and please stop the 10-20 waves Lotus Alerts , especially against like lvl 8 enemies... I swear I spend the entirety of these playing shawzin, because there's litterally no reason for four players to be wasting 10-15 minutes of their lives killing trash tier enemies.

Would also like them to try shorter waves (ex 3 waves per cycle), then again it would be frustrating for leveling spots as everyone would dash after 3 and you would be stuck with zero XP... So I guess stay at 5 but just make the starting level something that pays well and is fun to play.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

8 minutes ago, Artekkor said:

I don't think its the map issue. Its the gamemode issues.

Defense is one of the oldest game modes in the game... And one of the most outdated. Its long, its boring, its teeth-grindingly frustruating.
You stand and wait for enemies to come to you effectively 1 by 1. Spawn rates are horrible, the wave takes too long to take out and so on and so on.

Its the only game mode i outright hate. #*!%ing snoozefest. DE need to rework the gamemode itself, not remove the map from sortie. It could be a pleasant mission to play, but it just isnt.

It is at least partially a map issue. Enemies in Defense missions spawn in agro'd, but if they take to long to get to the objective and don't get within a certain radius of it or the player(s) before their agro timer runs out they will not continue. This can occur due to maps having bad AI pathing, which the new corpus ship defense tile definitely has. If they were to change the tile to spawn the enemies closer to the target, then it would solve a lot of the issues.

[SpicyDinosaur]

39 minutes ago, Blyker said:

• The map is huge! My Speed nova hardly helps here in speeding this up since the wave runs out before it reaches the end.
• Mobs get stuck or better cannot find a path to the target since it's so far away! 6/10 waves had a stuck/non agro mob!
• My friends do not even do sortie anymore when this is a mission
• With randoms took me 19minutes 5 seconds! (and they were not even bad!)

This map looks great! Plays really bad in sorties!

 

Yea I hate the size of the rooms, and then they have multiple levels.

 

I usually bring a speedva. I am not the best speedva though, so I get smacked down a lot. Still, passes the time and moves things forward faster.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

(Add the old Uranus and the huge ice planet map to that list. Arguably Earth and Mars too for buggy spawns who just stay in the spawn rooms and/or terrible pathing.)

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Artekkor said:

I don't think its the map issue. Its the gamemode issues.

The issues aren't specific to the map, but they're very much exacerbated by it.   I'm a weirdo who likes defense normally, but not on that tileset.

The only one I find similarly unpleasant is the Earth/Mars planet configuration.  But this one is still worse.

[(PSN)manicmartz61]

100% agree with OP. Did this earlier and it took us 32 mins, corpus hanging about on lower level and not attacking, ospreys being last enemy on the round spawning 175m  away so we keep having to chase them to end the round. It was really really really painful and that's 32 mins i wont be getting back!!!!!

 

TBH i dont like moaning about these things as people work really hard to design and create things in this game but this Tile set is a total snooze fest.

[DrivaMain]

They can easily fix defense by letting defense wave on a timer instead of kills. DE is not going to stop making maps larger and larger, which in turn making defense even slower.

[Zeddypanda]

Defense definitely makes me skip sorties. I've had too many 20 minute sortie defenses and sortie targets clipping through floors to bother.

Even outside of sortie, defense is still the least fun you can have in the game.

[Lutesque]

6 hours ago, Artekkor said:

I don't think its the map issue. Its the gamemode issues.

Defense is one of the oldest game modes in the game... And one of the most outdated. Its long, its boring, its teeth-grindingly frustruating.
You stand and wait for enemies to come to you effectively 1 by 1. Spawn rates are horrible, the wave takes too long to take out and so on and so on.

Its the only game mode i outright hate. #*!%ing snoozefest. DE need to rework the gamemode itself, not remove the map from sortie. It could be a pleasant mission to play, but it just isnt.

It's actually both....

Yes Defense is bad for all the reasons you mentioned but this Specific Defense Tile is hands Down the worst Iteration of it so far.... Most other Defense can be made smoother by use the Loki + Nova Combo but this tile is so Large and Complex that its not enough....

5 hours ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

(Add the old Uranus and the huge ice planet map to that list. Arguably Earth and Mars too for buggy spawns who just stay in the spawn rooms and/or terrible pathing.)

Don't forget that Large Pluto Defense Tile with the Catwalks.... 😱 !!!

 

[DoomFruit]

Yep. That map means an automatic skip for that day's sortie. Honestly, the only good thing about the corpus ship tileset was the music. Everything else sucks - the godawful terrible defence map, the incomprehensible decision to give trash mobs an exploding machinegun, the wall of unskippable cutscenes and waiting phases that is the Jackal, the inexplicable 1/1000 damage multiplier that corpus treasurers have.

[EtherPigeon]

17 hours ago, Artekkor said:

I don't think its the map issue. Its the gamemode issues.

Defense is one of the oldest game modes in the game... And one of the most outdated. Its long, its boring, its teeth-grindingly frustruating.
You stand and wait for enemies to come to you effectively 1 by 1. Spawn rates are horrible, the wave takes too long to take out and so on and so on.

Its the only game mode i outright hate. #*!%ing snoozefest. DE need to rework the gamemode itself, not remove the map from sortie. It could be a pleasant mission to play, but it just isnt.

Yeah, Defense is incredibly static - it might be the only mission type that doesn't benefit from mobility. Every other mission, even mobile defense, rewards you for mobility in a way. There's some token effort to make it a bit less static (moving platforms, changing defense locations) but that's so trivial that might as well not do that.

Defense needs to reward you for killing enemies efficiently/proactively and reward moving out. There's some basic attempt at that with the "stronger" enemies in certain waves (Bursas etc) but it has no actual effect - they'll come to you anyway.

Disruption is a more modern take on Mobile Defense, we need a modern counterpart replacement for Defense, too. Maybe something where killing specific enemies ends the wave (a bit like the data key holders in the Fortuna Rescue bounty) or priority targets that are actually dangerous to the mission (Demolysts) or a combination of these. Actually, I'd quite enjoy a Defense mission that spawns "demolysts" equal to the number of players + 1. Call them "demolition experts" or "siege units" and you can drop that mission on the starchart as "new" defense.

[Zeddypanda]

- Spawn every enemy in a wave all at once, because that's what "wave" means.

- Next wave spawns when you're halfway through the current wave.

- Doesn't settle until wave 5.

This is how defense could be fun. It would be easy to do this, but defense is intentionally designed to be slow so they won't.

 

Alternate approach:

- Waves are three times longer.

- 1 wave = 1 rotation. Rotations no longer arbitrarily choke their pace 4 times for no reason.

[RyuhoTheDragon]

Add to sorties and your entire post the fact that most if not all syndicate mission defenses are in that awfull tile. The spawns are too far away, the enemy path finding is awfull and yet someone decided a tile full of stairs and branching paths was a good choice.

[Deminisis]

Terrible map with its size and multiple floors. Half of the waves get stalled because an osprey gets stuck behind a door on the other side of the map.

I especially hate vauban players who think they're helping with vortex. You'll have a bunch of the enemies getting stuck in the geometry so we got to look under the stairs and the middle platform for them.

If we had better AI pathing and waves continuing when down to the last few enemies, maybe this would be tolerable.

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

On 2021-04-06 at 11:20 AM, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

Short Term Solution : I noticed it's much less tedious using a necramech. The fact the Mechs are slightly taller than warframes plus the fact they have the Mausolon to gatling gun the hell out of people coming allows them to scan the four sides and shoot downwards at enemies, making it less tedious to shoot the coming troops than frames that get zero visibilty downwards and have to constantly rotate around the pod. Hopefully once we can deploy our mechs everywhere and the XP is awarded correctly to us when doing so it'll be a way to make said mission a little less tedious.

Mausolon, LOL

Use the Arquebex with Dispenser.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2021-04-06 at 9:12 PM, Artekkor said:

I don't think its the map issue. Its the gamemode issues.

Defense is one of the oldest game modes in the game... And one of the most outdated. Its long, its boring, its teeth-grindingly frustruating.
You stand and wait for enemies to come to you effectively 1 by 1. Spawn rates are horrible, the wave takes too long to take out and so on and so on.

Its the only game mode i outright hate. #*!%ing snoozefest. DE need to rework the gamemode itself, not remove the map from sortie. It could be a pleasant mission to play, but it just isnt.

I used to count how many times I fell asleep during Helene (Hydron-like mission). I remember it was 20+ and then lost count :D

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2021-04-07 at 3:37 AM, Lutesque said:

Don't forget that Large Pluto Defense Tile with the Catwalks.... 😱 !!!

I like that mission, if you get a cryo pod on one of the sides (center is a bad one), you can farm Steel Essence there pretty comfy in Dark Sector. It is huge but mobs don't get stuck there most of the time (an hour of grinding - may be a couple of times something is stuck downstairs).

[kinoko_takenoko]

If you change the basic goal of DEFENSE to clearing over time (as in MOBILE DEFENSE), and if you make it so that the number of enemy kills reduces the time, the days of searching for lost enemies will be over.
(At least, if they don't make some insane adjustment like "make DEFENSE take longer than it does in the current Corpus Ship")

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

honestly its not just defense - any fissure mission is horrible on that entire tile set.  Especially on console with the terrible spawn rates.  do it on public and enemies just spawn in closets, different levels, rooms etc, don't aggro to the players, and no one gets enough reactant.   doesn't seem to even matter if its the rare occasion a public rando squad sticks together in a big room - they're still f'd.

[Tiltskillet]

11 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

I like that mission, if you get a cryo pod on one of the sides (center is a bad one), you can farm Steel Essence there pretty comfy in Dark Sector. It is huge but mobs don't get stuck there most of the time (an hour of grinding - may be a couple of times something is stuck downstairs).

Yeah that tile gets a bad rap because of the size, but it's nowhere near as bad.  Not only do enemies not get  stuck anywhere near as much there, but it's fast to navigate and full of clear shots.

It could be smaller, but if you're going to have  huge defense tiles, that's the way to do it.  

 

[Sevek7]

It's a real shame because the map itself is visually and thematically absolutely stunning and beautiful. The level of thought and detail that went into it are clearly apparent, but in the end it just doesn't fit with the game itself.

Perhaps if Warframe was a balanced game, then this would be the best defense map because you could spread out the team, two people upstairs and two downstairs. Using bottlenecks & crowd control to keep the enemies from progressing too fast while you slog it out in an intense battle to protect the target.

But Warframe is not a balanced game. It's a win-simulator with lots of RNG, and for that reason players just need the mission to be over as soon as possible so that they can either restart or move on to another grind. Beautiful sprawling maps then become simply an obstacle that slows down player progression. 

Side note: It would be better as a conclave map!

[Artekkor]

16 часов назад, Scar.brother.help.me сказал:

I used to count how many times I fell asleep during Helene (Hydron-like mission). I remember it was 20+ and then lost count :D

Its actually kinda sad that warframe is the only game where i risk falling asleep mid-gameplay. I never had this issue with any other game... Maybe some MMORPG i played some 10-15 years ago, but that's it.