Do you think relic matchmaking system would be worth developing?

[OwlOfJune]

Yes I do know recruit chat exists  but it really is very…. Primitive way of recruiting to be frank.

I wish there would be a system that gives you rooms like most other matchmaking games with basic rules, like (all relic welcom, require X relic, need specific X relic as Rad)

 

It would make hopping into squads you wanted fo very simple instead of reading past hundreds of spamming stuff you are not looking for in recruiting.

 

Ofc, the game does work as it is now, and there could be many who would feel this would be but mismanagement of dev time/resources. Hence me putting this at general discussion as casual question rather than feedback.

 

So what is your opinion?

[ReddyDisco]

19 minutes ago, OwlOfJune said:

It would make hopping into squads you wanted fo very simple instead of reading past hundreds of spamming stuff you are not looking for in recruiting.

There's literally a chat filter for that specific problem

[OwlOfJune]

1 minute ago, ReddyDisco said:

There's literally a chat filter for that specific problem

Thank you for your valuable input of not reading literally the first sentence!

[vanaukas]

No, you can use recruit chat for that, what's "primitive" on it?

 They already are doing filters on relics with the era (lith, meso, neo, axi) and I honestly think it's enough

[(XBOX)Shodian]

25 minutes ago, OwlOfJune said:

So what is your opinion?

There's also recruit chat that you can ask people if they are willing to open a specific relic.

[OwlOfJune]

1 minute ago, vanaukas said:

No, you can use recruit chat for that, what's "primitive" on it?

 They already are doing filters on relics with the era (lith, meso, neo, axi) and I honestly think it's enough

Well for starters, instead of being able to hop in, you need to click faster than unknown amount of ppl competing for same slot, wait for answer, then may or may not join.
 

Also at time the chat moves so fast that it is hard to properly click what you wanted. 

[vanaukas]

2 minutes ago, OwlOfJune said:

Well for starters, instead of being able to hop in, you need to click faster than unknown amount of ppl competing for same slot, wait for answer, then may or may not join.
 

Also at time the chat moves so fast that it is hard to properly click what you wanted. 

you can stop the chat from moving by just scrolling up...

if you are aiming for starters, putting more restraints based on an already complicated system (for news players) to find a match will cause more confusion and probably end up dilluting our already dilluted matchmaking, this without taking into account the already convulted multi-mission nodes (1 node with nightmare, sortie, arbitration,  invasion and fissure, to give an extreme example)

[SprinKah]

16 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

No, you can use recruit chat for that, what's "primitive" on it?

 They already are doing filters on relics with the era (lith, meso, neo, axi) and I honestly think it's enough

it's all about incentive, do you think everyone is more motivated to go into recruiting, say H> whatever relic, have their fingers cross to NOT GET DROWNED OUT BY other recruiting chats, RETYPE EVERYTHING if it doesn't work out which means having to do the whole [Relic name] manually (cant copy paste), bc that's how to get ppl's attention more, and the fact that not EVERYONE goes to recruiting chat to look for games for SPECIFIC relics.

or is it better to just...let people matchmake with people who choose the same relics, bc that's honestly would just be much much simpler. YOU KNOW most people just cannot bother to go to Recruiting to do everything there...

I'm not saying it's needed like NOW NOW, but it'd certainly be much better than going to Recruiting. I certainly NEVER able to get people who want to do the relics I want...

[vanaukas]

34 minutes ago, SprinKah said:

it's all about incentive, do you think everyone is more motivated to go into recruiting, say H> whatever relic, have their fingers cross to NOT GET DROWNED OUT BY other recruiting chats, RETYPE EVERYTHING if it doesn't work out which means having to do the whole [Relic name] manually (cant copy paste), bc that's how to get ppl's attention more, and the fact that not EVERYONE goes to recruiting chat to look for games for SPECIFIC relics.

or is it better to just...let people matchmake with people who choose the same relics, bc that's honestly would just be much much simpler. YOU KNOW most people just cannot bother to go to Recruiting to do everything there...

I'm not saying it's needed like NOW NOW, but it'd certainly be much better than going to Recruiting. I certainly NEVER able to get people who want to do the relics I want...

Maybe there is a regional issue, because in spanish server it's kinda established that if you want a specific relic you ask or look on recruiting chat or ask in endless missions if someone has X relic and want to crack it. The only way to implement what you want is creating another mission instance on fissure nodes, one for random relics (current system) and one that match the same relics being used, because almost no one wants to open 4 times the same relic unless they are desperate enough to potentially waste them getting the same reward multiple times, most  people take turns on using the relics if they are farming something (one puts the relic, the other one puts whatever), wich is entierely doable playing with randoms and using recruit chat.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I find the problem is not so much the system being underdeveloped, but on the player's end: people not knowing how to Radshare properly. most of the time when I've radshared it's gone fine, but sometimes there are problems:

- people not having the relic: ALWAYS read the text people put in recruit chat. if you are the one recruiting, use Parentheses and make a chat link to the relic you wish to use e.g. Hosting (Neo M2 Relic). <--- type it exactly like that and then people can not only see what the relic holds but also if they even own one in the first place. if it doesn't say owned, you don't have it, so don't join unless the recruiter says it's OK, otherwise you're taking up a slot that could be used by someone else.

- people using the wrong relic: now this probably isn't always intentional but there are some who will try to sneak under the radar, using a different relic and hoping nobody will notice. here's an important tidbit of information:

if you put your UI cursor on people's Icons in the top left, you can see their info, including what relic they have equipped. you cannot - I repeat - CANNOT fool me by putting on the wrong relic because I can check what everyone has, and you don't need to be the host to check either. more people need to do this because otherwise it messes with your chances, and if someone takes the wrong relic, we have to disband and start all over again which can take forever. it's a huge ball-ache that can be easily prevented, so keep an eye on people. 

- a straight up lack of people, though this one is hard to remedy as if nobody is running your relic, then nobody's running it lol. not much anyone can do here.

- people starting the mission too soon. now I can't speak for other platforms as i don't know the buttons there, but on PlayStation the button you press in the relic menu to equip your chosen relic is also the same as the one to accept and start the mission timer. it kinda sucks, but the way around it is to use the UI cursor to click the button instead. MANY times has an otherwise perfect radshare lobby gone to pot because someone got impatient. yes, the cursor sucks, I agree, but PLEASE just use it, I know it's slow AF but it's even slower to disband the group and then try to get everybody back. USE THE DAMN CURSOR! I was guilty of screwing up like this myself until I accepted the cursor is the better way to go here. if you're not radsharing or waiting on people, then yeah, use Square instead. 

if people learned to properly manage what relics they have, and make sure they've always got the right one equipped, problems 1 & 2 I've outlined here wouldn't be an issue. newer players in particular need to be taught how to Radshare if they want to farm primes, it would be great help if DE actually included a tutorial on these things, but I won't hold my breath on that.

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, SprinKah said:

it's all about incentive, do you think everyone is more motivated to go into recruiting, say H> whatever relic, have their fingers cross to NOT GET DROWNED OUT BY other recruiting chats, RETYPE EVERYTHING if it doesn't work out which means having to do the whole [Relic name] manually (cant copy paste), bc that's how to get ppl's attention more, and the fact that not EVERYONE goes to recruiting chat to look for games for SPECIFIC relics.

or is it better to just...let people matchmake with people who choose the same relics, bc that's honestly would just be much much simpler. YOU KNOW most people just cannot bother to go to Recruiting to do everything there...

I'm not saying it's needed like NOW NOW, but it'd certainly be much better than going to Recruiting. I certainly NEVER able to get people who want to do the relics I want...

if you hit up arrow on the keyboard it will bring up your last posted message in that chat tab. If you need to you can cycle back and forth through the last couple with up and down arrows. Filters are also your friend they really help slow down recuiting chat specifically when you are looking for a specific relic. I'm not saying your idea is a bad one, just figured this info might help you personally.

[trst]

Honestly it seems like overkill for such an incredibly minor issue. As recruitment chat already serves this purpose and it would only be useful for finding radshares which is something not everyone bothers with.

Unless it could be something that works for the entire game and not just relics it would be worth the effort. But then we're opening a whole other can of worms with a number of potential issues that make it again seem not worth the effort for a minor problem.

[herflik]

Actually if it would be designed well it could help a lot for many players. They could add stuff like:

1)Pick relic you want to run (one, few, any, grades, types)

2)Pick mission type you want to run (one, few, any,  limited by relic type)

3)Pick limit of players before mission start or during the mission (so it wont for example matchmake you into open 1 person games if you dont wan to)

4)Show information how many players search for what, what is most popular etc.

5)Show relic information when searching for missions

6)Give possiblity to pick when you want to join mission (start of mission or maybe 20+ stage on endless missions)

 

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, OwlOfJune said:

So what is your opinion?

Despite all the naysaying, I would honestly like to actually SEE it, even if I'm pessimistic about it being used much. Like, you'd mostly get people doing actual Relic missions for about three weeks after Prime Access drops, then it would just fill up with Hydron and ESO for the next two months. But for those three weeks, I think it would honestly look good

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

The fact of the matter is, primes are already exceedingly easy to get.

If we look back to the earlier days of warframe and see things like, the equinox grind, Nidus, Harrow, Ivara hell even boss frames can be annoying elusive. By comparison, primes are extremely simple to unlock, to the point where a significant amount of my primes I just about build by accident.

DE has no incentive to make them any easier, and any work they do in that direction will just hurt themselves and the game by further eroding the in game economy.

Watch what happens to the price of new primes within the first 24-48 hours of their release. People are selling Mesa and wukong sets for 20-40p.

Regardless of wether this would be better or not for the players, it would be even more devastating to the games economy.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

Just think of what such matchmaking settings would look like and imagine trying to use them every time you run a mission!

Just from the considerations mentioned in this thread, you'd need to select:

1. which relic you want the group to be running
2. suitable refinement levels (for each relic)
3. acceptable mission types
4. minimum number of people you want in your squad
5. How long you are willing to wait for such a squad
6. Priority of all the preferences above and possible alternatives (e.g. "I'm ok with 3 person flawshare if I have to wait 20 mins for a 4 person radshare")

Even with the best UX design in the world, such a preference setup would be quite clunky and overwhelming - and DE are not too great at UX design (just look at the Foundry screen - or how long it took them to set item labels to "on" by default).

And that doesn't even touch things like how to actually implement matchmaking that takes all these preferences into account (which is a much more technically difficult problem than most people realise)!

Considering how minor the potential QOL improvement to the user experience is (people won't have to type a bit into recruiting chat), this really doesn't sound like a good use of dev time!

[Danielw8]

Allways you have a better a game experience making by yourself your own party/squad in any game even if its competitive. Warframe need a better ui chat /new recruit section, at very least we need the option to keep seeing recruit chat when we are in mission

[OwlOfJune]

5 hours ago, vanaukas said:

Maybe there is a regional issue, because in spanish server it's kinda established that if you want a specific relic you ask or look on recruiting chat or ask in endless missions if someone has X relic and want to crack it. The only way to implement what you want is creating another mission instance on fissure nodes, one for random relics (current system) and one that match the same relics being used, because almost no one wants to open 4 times the same relic unless they are desperate enough to potentially waste them getting the same reward multiple times, most  people take turns on using the relics if they are farming something (one puts the relic, the other one puts whatever), wich is entierely doable playing with randoms and using recruit chat.

In Korean side ppl prefer playing with all same relics, then split up after one or couple runs. 
 

Hence my idea for quicker regroup with similar recruits.

4 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I find the problem is not so much the system being underdeveloped, but on the player's end: people not knowing how to Radshare properly. most of the time when I've radshared it's gone fine, but sometimes there are problems:

- people not having the relic: ALWAYS read the text people put in recruit chat. if you are the one recruiting, use Parentheses and make a chat link to the relic you wish to use e.g. Hosting (Neo M2 Relic). <--- type it exactly like that and then people can not only see what the relic holds but also if they even own one in the first place. if it doesn't say owned, you don't have it, so don't join unless the recruiter says it's OK, otherwise you're taking up a slot that could be used by someone else.

- people using the wrong relic: now this probably isn't always intentional but there are some who will try to sneak under the radar, using a different relic and hoping nobody will notice. here's an important tidbit of information:

if you put your UI cursor on people's Icons in the top left, you can see their info, including what relic they have equipped. you cannot - I repeat - CANNOT fool me by putting on the wrong relic because I can check what everyone has, and you don't need to be the host to check either. more people need to do this because otherwise it messes with your chances, and if someone takes the wrong relic, we have to disband and start all over again which can take forever. it's a huge ball-ache that can be easily prevented, so keep an eye on people. 

- a straight up lack of people, though this one is hard to remedy as if nobody is running your relic, then nobody's running it lol. not much anyone can do here.

- people starting the mission too soon. now I can't speak for other platforms as i don't know the buttons there, but on PlayStation the button you press in the relic menu to equip your chosen relic is also the same as the one to accept and start the mission timer. it kinda sucks, but the way around it is to use the UI cursor to click the button instead. MANY times has an otherwise perfect radshare lobby gone to pot because someone got impatient. yes, the cursor sucks, I agree, but PLEASE just use it, I know it's slow AF but it's even slower to disband the group and then try to get everybody back. USE THE DAMN CURSOR! I was guilty of screwing up like this myself until I accepted the cursor is the better way to go here. if you're not radsharing or waiting on people, then yeah, use Square instead. 

if people learned to properly manage what relics they have, and make sure they've always got the right one equipped, problems 1 & 2 I've outlined here wouldn't be an issue. newer players in particular need to be taught how to Radshare if they want to farm primes, it would be great help if DE actually included a tutorial on these things, but I won't hold my breath on that.

Well my suggestion is largely to address these problems.

 

Preventing ‘wrong relic’

This system will let you play with other language setting ppl with different language settings.

(for example I can only recruit fellow Korean ppl in Korean client but with such system it will allow recruiting Chinese, Japanese, Indian and other  Asian server players

Mission would start only after ppl inserted correct relics.

1 hour ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

Just think of what such matchmaking settings would look like and imagine trying to use them every time you run a mission!

Just from the considerations mentioned in this thread, you'd need to select:

1. which relic you want the group to be running
2. suitable refinement levels (for each relic)
3. acceptable mission types
4. minimum number of people you want in your squad
5. How long you are willing to wait for such a squad
6. Priority of all the preferences above and possible alternatives (e.g. "I'm ok with 3 person flawshare if I have to wait 20 mins for a 4 person radshare")

Even with the best UX design in the world, such a preference setup would be quite clunky and overwhelming - and DE are not too great at UX design (just look at the Foundry screen - or how long it took them to set item labels to "on" by default).

And that doesn't even touch things like how to actually implement matchmaking that takes all these preferences into account (which is a much more technically difficult problem than most people realise)!

Considering how minor the potential QOL improvement to the user experience is (people won't have to type a bit into recruiting chat), this really doesn't sound like a good use of dev time!

Honestly I doubt if this was to implemented it could go more than step 3, but it is fair argument. 
 

DE has never been really too at UX/UI designz

[SheikaVoid]

I have to recognize the OP's argument when it comes to regions with major language differences.

Recruiting chat doesn't exactly work if I'm speaking Russian and everyone else is speaking English, or, in the OP's example, he or she is speaking Korean, and the other players are speaking Chinese/Japanese/Cantonese.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

1 hour ago, OwlOfJune said:

Honestly I doubt if this was to implemented it could go more than step 3

That's kind of the main issue!

If you're just running random relics for Forma BPs or Ducats, it doesn't matter much what others bring, so you just puck an available fissure and jump into a random squad. All this matchmaking only matters if you are looking for something very specific. So the main use cases I can see for your suggestions are when you are looking for specific components in:

1. Relic shares for newly released relics
2. Relic shares for old vaulted (or soon-to-be-vaulted) relics

In both of these cases, you'd be looking at all of these factors: you need players to have certain relics, for there to be 4 players and for the relics to be appropriately refined. But in some cases, if the wait is too long, you might be willing to compromise a bit on refinement quality or player count. All this "feels" like simple common-sense logic, but when you actually try to code it (or, even worse, make it configurable in a UI) you realise that it's actually really quite complicated to define!

[Alpheus]

12 hours ago, vanaukas said:

you can stop the chat from moving by just scrolling up...

if you are aiming for starters, putting more restraints based on an already complicated system (for news players) to find a match will cause more confusion and probably end up dilluting our already dilluted matchmaking, this without taking into account the already convulted multi-mission nodes (1 node with nightmare, sortie, arbitration,  invasion and fissure, to give an extreme example)

Don't forget Syndicate, Lich, and Gift of the Lotus.

[TARINunit9]

11 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

DE has no incentive to make them any easier, and any work they do in that direction will just hurt themselves and the game by further eroding the in game economy.

Regardless of wether this would be better or not for the players, it would be even more devastating to the games economy.

It wouldn't be "easier", not in a way that would hurt supply and demand. What it would be is less archaic and eye-straining. Functionally it would be the same as recruiting chat, so we aren't getting more prime parts. But aesthetically it would be a proper menu instead of just sitting in your ship looking at a tiny chunk of screen clicking on tiny tabs and scrolling names

11 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

If the old void key system the game had (maybe Google it) would've been changed, refined and streamlined, absolutely yes. Other games with similar systems have this as well. (Heck, as of 2021, they could've made the Void a ridiculously fun experience)

With relics? #*!% no. There's hundreds and creating a matchmaking system like that would be a Hellhole for both developers and players.

Sadly. I despise cracking relics as well, for various other reasons on top of it.

The Void key system was terrible, and it died a very deserved death. For every "I can taxi three other people in on a single key" you had three weapons that were all "Jesus effing Christ, this weapon has TWO parts locked behind a 5% drop rate on Defense rotation C?!" Every mission was the same, almost every squad was the same, it was boring and tedious and brainless

Nowadays? I can guarantee a 35% drop rate in half the time it would take to do a single 5% drop rate under the key system, and I can do it without ever looking at a mission type I hate playing, and even co+ordinate with squadmates on which missions would be fastest

[SneakyErvin]

I'd like it. Would remove alot of hazzle that comes with recruit chat. It would completely remove people trolling or trying to sneak in a non radiant relic of the specific kind etc. Which would add QoL since you wouldnt have to abandon missions due to one &#036;&amp;*^. It could also open up for filling groups mid mission incase someone drops accidentally, something recruit chat cannot help with.

[Krankbert]

Am 4.6.2021 um 11:50 schrieb (NSW)BalticBarbarian:

Just think of what such matchmaking settings would look like and imagine trying to use them every time you run a mission!

Just from the considerations mentioned in this thread, you'd need to select:

1. which relic you want the group to be running
2. suitable refinement levels (for each relic)
3. acceptable mission types
4. minimum number of people you want in your squad
5. How long you are willing to wait for such a squad
6. Priority of all the preferences above and possible alternatives (e.g. "I'm ok with 3 person flawshare if I have to wait 20 mins for a 4 person radshare")

Even with the best UX design in the world, such a preference setup would be quite clunky and overwhelming - and DE are not too great at UX design (just look at the Foundry screen - or how long it took them to set item labels to "on" by default).

Have you ever played a game with a matchmaking system where the time you're willing to wait is an option you set in advance and not determined by you leaving the queue when it's been too long? Have you ever played a game with a matchmaking system that didn't just add people until your squad was full? Have you ever played a game with a matchmaking system with a set of ranked preferences of what you'd rather do instead if you can't find a group for what you're queueing for?

You're going out of your way to make matchmaking sound way more complicated than it has to be. There actually is a middle ground between a giant overcomplicated monstrosity that allows you to set every conceivable option in advance and nothing.

[Fallen77]

Or you could just spam missions, with or without the relic you need to crack, and just chance it.

Worked pretty well so far