Galvanized mod are a joke

[Krankbert]

As if there was only “can’t kill anything” and “can one-shot everything” and nothing in between. This takes braindead black-and-white-thinking to a whole new level.

[(PSN)max141064]

I love how people talk of the Galvanized mods as if the game didn't had any fodder enemy that can be oneshotted even at lvl 190. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

I don't know, I've had some surprising ones cross my desk.

A lot of people point at a few Kuva weapons for their 'powerful' weapons, like the Bramma and the Nukor. But I tried putting the new Galvanised Chamber and Galvanised Aptitude on the Kuva Quartakk. Along with the Primary Deadhead arcane.

Now, a lot of people overlook the Quartakk because it doesn't nuke, it doesn't really have a lot of high damage, and it has that awkward 'auto fire while hip-firing, semi-auto when aiming' function.

But with these two new mods, and the arcane, I've switched to using it as a Sister hunting weapon. I can pick off fodder units, like the crewmen, with the aimed burst fire that easily gets me headshots, I can take down Nullifier bubbles with the auto-fire, and the second I do I get the on-kill bonuses. Kill three enemies and I'm suddenly at 200% Multishot, 360% Damage over my modded value, get bonus damage to Headshots, and have almost no Recoil, meanwhile I then get a further 80% damage per Status Type on the target. (I think the number of status types caps at 3, so that's a maximum of another 240% damage.)

Now, if I just do a little maths...

Overframe tells me that with a setup of Serration, Galvanised Chamber, Galvanised Aptitude, Primed Shred, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Infected Clip, Primed Cryo Rounds and Primary Deadhead Arcane, then with my 60% Heat damage from farming the Liches... I do a lovely base damage of 1,463 per shot (because it includes the base multishot of 1.8). The average hit, if you include the Crit, is around 3,905.

However, if you apply the conditional effects, from Deadhead and the two Galvanised mods? That single hit is 10,347 and the average hit is 27,478.

But wait, there's more.

If I switch to the burst fire mode, that's four hits, with a different Crit Chance and Multiplier. On that, the single bullet is exactly the same, but the average hit (because of the better stats) is 43,017. And I'm firing four of those. Hell, throw a Vigilante Supplies mod in there for the occasional boost to Crit too.

I can put down those status procs, I can headshot, I can sustain fire. With Viral against armoured units, the status chance buffs the damage up to 325%, the Heat status strips 50% of the Armour to increase my damage even further, and there's even some Bleed procs in there because I'm just hitting with so much multi-shot that it's putting everything on there. I can swap the elemental combo around to Magnetic and pump Sister or Hound Shields full of Magnetic Procs to give me a bonus of 325% damage on them too.

Basically, I think people are looking at the wrong guns.

If you take into account what these mods and arcanes can conditionally do on guns that you didn't think were all that comparable before now, not the worst guns, just the ones that people didn't use because they were out-shone by the bigger guns in that same release. I think you'll find that they suddenly make those ones a lot more viable than they used to be.

[0_The_F00l]

I will have to disagree with the OP partially,

If you are successfully killing EACH AND EVERY enemy in the mission with the same amount of effort then galvanized mods are not necessary for your gun.

If however your TTK has some deviations during a mission , like killing a butcher and lancer is almost equal , but killing a bombard or heavy gunner takes almost 3 times as much effort , then galvanized mods will make sense,

We have in the past been using "CO primer" ranged weapons to power our melee to do maximum damage,

we can now use similar primer melee weapons to power our ranged weapons allowing more varied gameplay.

Does it make all guns effective? no, some trash guns will still be trash, but it does make ranged weapons more capable than they were before and some niche weapons are surprisingly powerful.

All in all , i think ranged weapons are in a better (though slightly powecreeped) position.

It is not what was expected when i thought they would make guns better , but its a good first step in the right direction according to me.

[Kokogumi]

"Stacking bonuses are useless if the weapon can already kill without the bonus."

Yet everyone uses Condition Overload and Blood Rush on weapons that can already kill without any initial combo counters or statuses, just to kill faster with subsequent attacks as it ramps up.

Ah yes, logic.

[xarvh]

The problem I have is that I can't fit them on my primary.

There's just not enough capacity for it, I have to drop the riven, or Primed Cryo Round or the Exilus, and I formed every single slot.

[Butterfly85]

7 minutes ago, xarvh said:

The problem I have is that I can't fit them on my primary.

There's just not enough capacity for it, I have to drop the riven, or Primed Cryo Round or the Exilus, and I formed every single slot.

Ah, first world warframe problems at its finest there. I have the same kn a couple of guns 😂😂

[Marvelous_A]

23 hours ago, Kokogumi said:

"Stacking bonuses are useless if the weapon can already kill without the bonus."

Yet everyone uses Condition Overload and Blood Rush on weapons that can already kill without any initial combo counters or statuses, just to kill faster with subsequent attacks as it ramps up.

Ah yes, logic.

Used to be because CO was multiplicative and BR gave ridiculous crit. chance bonus, allowing a 10% crit. chance melee to deal orange/red crit.

CO after the first nerf was still capable to outperform PPP with little cost on a hybrid/status melee so it's free damage. BR has long since left the "must-use" roster.

It's different about ranged weaponry though. Mostly because ranged weaponry suffers from ammo efficiency and stuff like that and their difference to each other can be huge, from hardly tickling mobs to clear a room in an instant. It's really hard to find a melee that can't kill stuff at all now, at most they will just need a few more swings.

From the point of view of encouraging players to use primary and secondary over melee I'd agree the new galvanized mods don't do jacksh1t at all. They should have just buffed the existing mandatory mods (Serration, Hell's Chamber, etc) if the best they can offer is some plain damage increase. Why put these new mods in arbitrations and essentially not allowing the newer players to access them? It makes no sense. The increased capacity drain makes no sense too because for more damage output players acquire they have to give up other damage mods for that. Then what's the purpose of these mods? I don't see any. And how about the rivens? If the rivens didn't work why do they think galvanized mods will? 

Back to the basic if they want players to use guns in a horde shooter they gotta make the guns better in shooting hordes. Innate PT, ricochets, elemental AoE damage, weak tracking bullets, they would be better than a lame damage increase. You can overkill 1 scorpion with 9999k damage but it won't beat a sticky boi that kills 5 in a swing.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

32 minutes ago, xarvh said:

The problem I have is that I can't fit them on my primary.

There's just not enough capacity for it, I have to drop the riven, or Primed Cryo Round or the Exilus, and I formed every single slot.

If swapping primed cryo rounds let’s you swap split chamber for galvanised chamber and a normal cryo rounds, your damage will still be significantly better off for it 

[0_The_F00l]

31 minutes ago, xarvh said:

The problem I have is that I can't fit them on my primary.

There's just not enough capacity for it, I have to drop the riven, or Primed Cryo Round or the Exilus, and I formed every single slot.

hah , that's not a problem really , that's a power check mechanic.

You will need to show the build before i can comment any further , but i have dropped many staple mods from my builds.

[T-Shark69]

On 2021-07-20 at 12:35 AM, LokitaUmbra said:

and weapons that do not kill do not benefit. 

There are no weapons that cant kill, only people that cant mod/prime. Also do notice that you are only required to get the last hit with the weapon. You can soften or prime enemies all you want and then finish them off with your weapon of choice. Then they just keep getting stronger and then keep the kill count on their own if you werent able to do it previously.

What sucks with the Galvanized and Aranes is that there's like 8 different timers you have to keep track of if you use them all.
-There should be just 3 arcanes that work on both primary and secondary like it works with Kitguns.
-The on kill should count for both guns or all kills in general. Alternatively there should be three conditions : On Gun kill, On Melee kill, On Ability kill.
-All Galvanized mods should pool from the same "combo counter". Normalized buff and number of max stacks.
-Exilus slots should give mod capacity. Or something else should idk. Im tired of using upwards of 5 forma to fit everything.
-There should be utility guns mods like there are utility melee mods. I can heal with melee but not with guns. 

[Fallen77]

Lol, galvanized diffusion is a straight upgrade to regular diffusion, gun arcanes are straight upgrades to not having arcanes.

What kind of idiotic mental gymnastic must you do to come to this conclusion ? 

Most guns could get kills before the update, so the "on-kill" condition is perfectly fine. Outside of some weapons made for early players and some outliers like the stug, it just makes everything undeniably better.

Sounds like you're just incapable of modding correctly to get kills, and are complaining that they did not give you a brainless "delete everything I look at" tool.

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

hah , that's not a problem really , that's a power check mechanic.

A power check mechanic? On a set of weapons DE are trying to buff the power of so that it competes with the power of melee?

Specifically they're trying to buff the relative power by adding mods, but don't add more mod capacity so that these mods can be put on weapons?

That's not a power check, that's just an oversight.

You don't have to put more than five forma on melee weapons because they have Stances, meaning that even if you don't forma a slot for something like Sacrificial Steel, at 16 points, you can fit a build on.

Guns, however, have 16 point mods, they have 18 point Rivens, and an Exilus that also drains capacity, nothing to add to it. We already had guns that, in order to get a functioning build on them, we needed to have a polarity on every slot, up to 9 Forma, and now we have another 16 point mod to throw in the mix.

Not only does that kind of Forma setup end up really expensive for the average player, it also locks them into that build with no flexibility in case they want to try another. They have to re-forma just for a difference Elemental combo.

If your build for your weapons only takes you 5 forma and you can flex to other elements, that's great.

But guns, in terms of investment into them, with Forma, Exilus Adapters, and now Arcane Unlockers (on top of your potato farm), are so far behind Melee that can do equivalent damage and effect, if not better, with as low as a Zero forma build and a potato. Those you just slap on a Stance and you have enough capacity for a build that can scale up to Steel Path in moments.

A power check mechanic is there to prevent over-functionality.

That's a laugh a minute on a set of weapons where only 20% of them achieve equity functionality, ever.

[Berserkerkitten]

I don't even care whether galvanized mods and the new arcanes are needed on weapons, which already destroy everything. You can get some hilariously huge numbers with them, so they're simply FUN! 

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

A power check mechanic? On a set of weapons DE are trying to buff the power of so that it competes with the power of melee?

Specifically they're trying to buff the relative power by adding mods, but don't add more mod capacity so that these mods can be put on weapons?

That's not a power check, that's just an oversight.

You don't have to put more than five forma on melee weapons because they have Stances, meaning that even if you don't forma a slot for something like Sacrificial Steel, at 16 points, you can fit a build on.

Guns, however, have 16 point mods, they have 18 point Rivens, and an Exilus that also drains capacity, nothing to add to it. We already had guns that, in order to get a functioning build on them, we needed to have a polarity on every slot, up to 9 Forma, and now we have another 16 point mod to throw in the mix.

Not only does that kind of Forma setup end up really expensive for the average player, it also locks them into that build with no flexibility in case they want to try another. They have to re-forma just for a difference Elemental combo.

If your build for your weapons only takes you 5 forma and you can flex to other elements, that's great.

But guns, in terms of investment into them, with Forma, Exilus Adapters, and now Arcane Unlockers (on top of your potato farm), are so far behind Melee that can do equivalent damage and effect, if not better, with as low as a Zero forma build and a potato. Those you just slap on a Stance and you have enough capacity for a build that can scale up to Steel Path in moments.

A power check mechanic is there to prevent over-functionality.

That's a laugh a minute on a set of weapons where only 20% of them achieve equity functionality, ever.

Mod capacity is a power check mechanic for both melee and ranged weapons,

And i do agree that there is more modding freedom (kinda) on melee than on ranged weapons due to means to add capacity by stances (one of the reasons melee is better at average for damage dealing), but melee have their own concerns at the same time.

But the point at hand is builds in ranged weapons , if you go and compare melee to ranged there will be very glaring issues that makes one better than another beyond just mod cap.

The galvanized mods are variants of existing mods so you cant have them in place of existing mods. The outlier is the status mods which provide additional functionality and are not a staple in most builds.

I will also call you out on the mod capacity per mod ,

there are only 2 mods that take 16 capacity,

Galvanized hell , Galvanized chamber whose base variant takes 15 capacity anyway, which formad takes 8 capacity. so you are really not losing any capacity if you have formad for those two for much more potential damage.

Galvanized diffusion takes 14 as compared to barrel diffusion 11 capacity , so that is 7 vs 6 once formad. one extra mod capacity for nearly double the potential effects.

All rivens are 18 capacity at max rank (irrespective of it being melee or ranged).

Now if the complaint is "but forma is too much effort" or "i cant blindly add this mod in my existing build",

well then suck it up buttercup cause that's the cost and theres not much that can be done , but complaining about "it cant fit" that's a weak argument.

There are already weapons i have invested 7 to 8 forma even before the galvanized mods came in and most weapons i have can manage with what alreaddy exist or may need one additional forma at most.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

The only way to bring the actual bullet shooters to the level of the launchers and beam weapons is to give them some way to kill more enemies at once. 

[FishMcCool]

On 2021-07-20 at 10:54 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

I don't know, I've had some surprising ones cross my desk.

A lot of people point at a few Kuva weapons for their 'powerful' weapons, like the Bramma and the Nukor. But I tried putting the new Galvanised Chamber and Galvanised Aptitude on the Kuva Quartakk. Along with the Primary Deadhead arcane

Could you please try and avoid getting my beloved Kuva Quartakk nerfed? It's flying under the radar, let's leave it there! (and yeah, galvanised mods and primary deadhead are amazing on it)

[SenorClipClop]

On 2021-07-20 at 6:35 AM, LokitaUmbra said:

if my weapon kills with the normal diffusion I don't need more multishot because it will continue to kill , The same applies to the new arcana that require you to kill, so I want more damage when I'm already killing without needing that extra damage .

Uh... yeah?

The whole point of Galvanized Mods is to provide scaling. You're saying they're bad because you're doing things fine without the scaling? This suggests to me that either you haven't tried the Mods yet, or you're playing in missions that are low enough level that weapons don't benefit from scaling up.

I did a comparison test just now of my Boar Prime's status build, with and without Galvanized Savvy (a max rank Shotgun Savvy subbing in on the latter). I hate to say it, but the test subjects were Lvl175 Corr. Heavy Gunners, overdone but they are a decent barometer of raw damage potential. Anyways:

• The build with Shotgun Savvy (non-galvanized) kills a Gunner in 21 shots, just over a full magazine. Then the second one I kill takes... 21 shots, just like the first. Third one, 21 shots. Three L175 Corrupted Gunners down with 63 shots.
• The build with Galvanized Savvy kills the first Gunner in 22 shots (slightly less Status). The second one (I have one stack now) takes about 12 shots. Then the third Gunner (2 stacks now) takes between 7 and 9 shots, average 8. Three L175 Corrupted Gunners down with 42 shots. Just over a full magazine less than the build without scaling effects.
• But let's go further. One does not fight exclusively tanky units in a real mission, after all. If I add two Lvl 175 Corrupted Butchers into the mix, I can get to max stacks with  just two shots. Two Butchers down in two shots, then those three Gunners drop in 7-9 (avg 8) shots each. Three L175 Corrupted Gunners down with just 26 shots (or just 24 if you don't count the Butchers).

Just by swapping Shotgun Savvy with Galvanized Savvy, I was able to cut shots to kill on high-level tanky enemies by more than half. But go ahead and keep thinking that Galvanized Mods are a joke.

[(PSN)KCGrimReaper15]

On 2021-07-20 at 12:07 AM, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

I'm finding galvanized mods to be quite good on steel path. Maybe you just need to meditate on your builds. 

Ding ding Thank You that is people problem there not modding there weapons properly & because of it there not seeing a difference..

I've been using the mods & they been very effective & actually melting enemies much better then before the mods were a thing 

And I don't have them maxed & still notice a big difference The crit ones with requiring headshots are only ones I've not tested 

The others are a game changer.. + boost your weapons stats..

people will claim there builds are fine but honestly if your not seeing improvement you messed up your builds somewhere..

 

For example trying to convert  critical chance weapons into status weapons when the Crit chance weapon can reach 100%+ and status has 0% chance of reaching 100% status chance with any build 

 

Then you don't need to add status chance you should be modding for critical chance & critical damage.. because it's a crit weapon 

Otherwise the weapon won't perform to its full potential even with the new mods..

Same rule applies to status chance if your weapons can get to 100%+ status chance then why turn the weapon into a critical chance weapon unless you can get both to 100% it makes 0 sense..

So build it for status chance if it's a status chance weapon 

Same with crit chance like Soma Prime is a critical chance weapon u want to build it for high critical chance & critical damage 

 

The Kuva Nukor is a status chance weapon with right build you can get 200%+ status chance so why build it for anything other then status your not gonna reach the weapon full potential

Try it I hope you will see the improvement good luck.

 

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

The only way to bring the actual bullet shooters to the level of the launchers and beam weapons is to give them some way to kill more enemies at once. 

So, turn every gun into an aoe weapon?

I'd rather not tbh.   I have a wide choice of aoe guns already.   Same goes for beam weps.  And of course, melee still exists.   I'm quite happy having a choice, my auto rifles etc do just fine in most missions.   Its only really in survivals that the enemy density can overwhelm them, in which case I switch weps, use my melee and secondary etc.

I don't want my tiberon to be competing with my envoy, or, conversley, my envoy competing with my quartakk.  Diff weapons, different mechanics, different strengths.  Thats good imo.

[Aldain]

On 2021-07-19 at 5:35 PM, LokitaUmbra said:

barrel diffusion gives us 120% multishot in rifles

That's the pistol mod, the Rifle mod only gives 90%.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

"On kill" is a bad trigger, and yes galvanized mods promotes meta AoE weapons.

It does work, no it's not fun past the 5 first minutes you laugh hard with "Bramma goes boom" 

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2021-07-21 at 11:09 AM, 0_The_F00l said:

Now if the complaint is "but forma is too much effort" or "i cant blindly add this mod in my existing build"

No, the argument is about Equity.

Let's take the fence and box example; There are three people, one short, one medium, one tall, and they need to see over the top of a fence.

Equality is to give them all a box to stand on. But it does not solve the problem, because the tall person could see over without a box, and the short person standing on a box still can't see. The medium person can see with a box, so their problem is solved. In modern society, 2 out of 3 ain't bad, but that's kind of the problem as well.

Equity is to give the short person two boxes so they can see over the fence, the medium person one box, and leave the tall person as they are. Now all of them can see over the top of the fence, and the problem has been solved.

This is the thing that needs to be sorted out between Melee and Guns.

Melee has mechanics and base functions that Guns do not. Melee has increased mod capacity, Melee has Follow Through (making every melee an AoE or Cone-of-Effect), Melee has mods that work off the combo counter (which is another function that melee has over Guns) to scale up their functions over time.

DE has attempted to buff guns. While they have partially succeeded, by giving them mods and Arcanes that increase functions based on kills (rather than on hits), what they have forced on them is more investment needed to achieve that. While the mods are powerful (unlike the original post's claims), the difference between Guns and Melee isn't so easily bridged.

On the actual topic of the Mod Capacity, though, let's have a little walk down mathematics lane:

Melee has, with a stance on the matching polarity and a potato, 70 mod points available. They then have 8 slots. This means that the average slot can have a mod that costs 8.75 points. And what is the highest cost, with the right polarisation, that any mod has in the game? It's Rivens with 9 after Polarisation. Which you can only have 1 of on your weapon. And not one single other mod in their build has more than 8 after polarisation.

Meanwhile, There's Guns.

Guns have 9 slots, and only 60 mod points available. That works out at 6.66 points per slot. You may start to see the problem here.

Even worse. Guns didn't need the Galvanised mods to have this problem. It existed before them.

Guns have Serration, Galvanised/Split Chamber and a Riven right out of the gate that cost 7, 8 and 9 respectively after polarisation, leaving the rest of the build (6 other slots) requiring an average of 6 points each to fit the build.

While it's possible to do that, there are other mods that players want to use, like Internal Bleeding, like Primed Firestorm, like Primed Shred/Bane/Cryo Rounds, all of which cost greater than the average and push down the points available for the remaining slots.

So yeah.

Mod Point Limits are a thing to check the power.

My point on the matter is that this is a joke because Guns currently don't have the power. And Melee, which currently has the power, also has greater mod point capacity.

DE didn't address that in this update at all. They slung more mods at us.

And while I will argue against OP's point that the Galvanised mods are useless, because I've found plenty of use for them, I will also argue that this update didn't do anywhere near enough for guns.

Also that using the 'power check' argument on this is stupid, because what power are they actually checking? Not melee's power, not Warframe's power. Only guns, which don't have the power compared to either of those things anyway.

[vegetosayajin]

They are not a joke ...but close to one. :D
They were a bandage before release, they are a bandage now after testing.
They do make weapons stronger but not nearly enough and the point about single target weapons complete useless still stays.
The whole update was because of sp and it didn't do it's job, like I said and many others have - they made melee little more annoying to use but still the best choice and 1-2% of primaries and secondaries "usable".
Next time listen to the whole conversation, not just some points.

[Softballbryan]

Things go boom better with new mods and arcane. Me happier now.