Why I don`t like steel path and the helminth system

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Dis-bloody-claimer: You guys are meant to have sense so I`m not giving one.

 

Steel Path

·       This will cause things to get nerfed.

·       I don`t like that kind of difficulty I prefer difficulty where you have to think before you act (enemy AI).

·       People making stupid comments like “if this ability can`t kill enemies in steel path then it`s garbage” when we all know there is a complete difference between a lvl 100 bombard and a steel path version.

·       To me it`s just boring.

·       People banging on and on about it.

 

Helminth System

·       This system makes other warframes irrelevant e.g., Valkyr and Trinity.

·       It messes with the theme of the warframe.

·       This exacerbates the damage meta even further.

·       This will cause nerfs in the future.

·       People will complain if DE decides to rework a frame by removing an ability to make it good the that frame.

·       This will give DE less reason to go back and look at a frame that need a look over (Hydroid, Nyx, Revenant, Ash).

·       People are using it to “fix” a warframe when really that warframe should get a look over.

·       People making dumb comments like “you don`t like an ability? Just use helminth”.

·       People keep on banging on and on about it. 

 

I was disappointed when DE shown steel path on the devstream, I was expecting it to be an in-game simulacrum where players have the ability to choose the level of any mission whether it was a normal mission or a syndicate mission and this would make sense since DE scot was complaining that ppl were using the simulacrum too much at least with this ppl can choose the level and it would fix the issue he had with the simulacrum, but instead it wus just a boring increase enemies damage and survivability up to 1000 just a bad game mode.

As for the helminth system, I never liked it ever since it was shown at tennocon last year, the amount of bloody times I heard someone say “you don`t like an ability? Just use helminth” I would be flipping rich.

I had a suggestion year back to have the ability to swap warframe passives to me what would have been a cool idea for example Ash`s passive on Equinox what would be fun a heck but I was told that that would be too op but I bet the ppl that said that to me aren`t saying that about the helminth system and if my idea was released, I bet those same ppl that said that would use it.

The biggest thing I have an issue with both of these it that it feeds into the damage meta to the point where thing are going to get nerfed and with pp, keep on talking about it will cause things to get nerfed, however the only thing I’m glade about the helminth existing is that it shows what frames need a rework, revisit or a QOL.

 

Spoiler

This shows the abilities that are subsumed the most.

 

This shows the warframe abilities that are replaced the most. 

 

My personal favourite which proves my point about this frame despite what ppl say and think.

Spoiler

 

For steel path I only do it coz of the arcanes and the essence and for helminth I just use for fun but If DE decides to remove steel path and helminth I won`t shed a tear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DsUBZza47s

 

[elmetnuter]

Valkyr does not the Helminth to be irrelevant. She sure can take Bombards strike straight to her face all day long without flinching but that is all.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

There's only a problem if you make one out of thin air. 

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

Dont play steel path then if it's such a problem, and if you were wanting a simulacrum add on, that wasn't the point of putting Sp in the game. Newsflash, Sp isn't going anywhere and it serves a purpose. It's not for you then if you find it such a problem, but I and many others play Sp exclusively for most things. Helminth is a different topic, but this honestly looks more like the game isn't adapting to YOU, so YOU want it to change. Not how it works.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

20 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Valkyr

War cry requires higher strength and some duration the augment makes it even better which is not something that can be applied to every Warframe.

Helminth is more of an add on to your build, you remove something that doesn't work or you don't use and put something that will help your build not focus completely on the ability you just introduced might as well play the original warframe if you're doing that.

20 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Trinity

She already kind of was before helminth

[TheGuyver]

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/1219-feedback/

[trst]

If things get nerfed for SP then they are grossly overpowered in all other content. If you don't play it then this means nothing for you. And players have always acted dumb when it comes to comparing builds and using SP for that is just a continuation of a trend we've always had.

Helminth doesn't make Trinity and Valkyr irrelevant. Trinity is made irrelevant by the abundance of health and energy restoration methods open to all frames and Valkyr is made irrelevant  by her abilities. And most of your other comments on Helminth more or less just plain wrong.

 

And really if you don't like SP then don't play it. Nothing is forcing you to as the upgrades from it are irrelevant outside of it. And if it ever did lead to nerfs it they wouldn't impact anything outside of SP due to how trivial the entire game already is.

[George_PPS]

If you see "problems" everywhere, there will be MORE problems everywhere. SP is difficult, and it addresses the issues that some players found the normal mode too "easy". It is also another mode we can farm something. I personally enjoy easy and short content but don't mind DE to add "OPTIONS". It's the same for Helminth System. I like it but have not farmed or used it. And I appreciate that it is an "OPTION". I and many players like options and varieties of contents even though we may not be playing it just yet. I want to know how good my builds could be further improved if I choose to work on it. This is a great design from a psychological point of view. Good for inviting friends to work on them together. Designs of options are great. 

On 2021-07-30 at 8:11 PM, trst said:

If things get nerfed for SP then they are grossly overpowered in all other content. If you don't play it then this means nothing for you. Players have always acted dumb when it comes to comparing builds and using SP for that is just a continuation of a trend we've always had.

Helminth doesn't make Trinity and Valkyr irrelevant. Trinity is made irrelevant by the abundance of health and energy restoration methods open to all frames and Valkyr is made irrelevant  by her abilities. And most of your other comments on Helminth more or less just plain wrong.

And really if you don't like SP then don't play it. Nothing is forcing you to as the upgrades from it are irrelevant outside of it. And if it ever did lead to nerfs it they wouldn't impact anything outside of SP due to how trivial the entire game already is.

EXACTLY. 

[(PSN)Hotdog_Water666]

You have to understand in topics like these the fanboys will come out and say "the game isn't about you." Me and 4 other people want the game to be harder so it should. Imo they need to stop listening to the vets because they have proven from my time on these forums to be the biggest jerks. This is someones opinion and DE needs to hear it if they feel that way. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Hotdog_Water666 said:

You have to understand in topics like these the fanboys will come out and say "the game isn't about you." Me and 4 other people want the game to be harder so it should. Imo they need to stop listening to the vets because they have proven from my time on these forums to be the biggest jerks. This is someones opinion and DE needs to hear it if they feel that way. 

Except steel path doesn't affect the main game, you can completely ignore it

[Miser_able]

21 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

the amount of bloody time I heard someone say “you don`t like an ability? Just use helminth” I would be flipping rich.

except that that is a perfectly valid suggestion.
if 90% of the playerbase likes an ability on a frame, and the other 10% does not, then the 10% can just replace it with an ability they do like. and boom, 100% of people are happy. but if DE decides to change the ability to what those 10% like, then only 10% of the players will be happy.

[(PSN)Hotdog_Water666]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Except steel path doesn't affect the main game, you can completely ignore it

What does that have to do with what I said? You can ignore open world, railjack, relays too. That doesn't mean I can't want them changed to be more in the style I like to play.

[Miser_able]

23 minutes ago, (PSN)Hotdog_Water666 said:

What does that have to do with what I said? You can ignore open world, railjack, relays too. That doesn't mean I can't want them changed to be more in the style I like to play.

and what about the people who like them as they are and dont want them to be changed?

[Kaotyke]

24 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

and what about the people who like them as they are and dont want them to be changed?

Those dont exist. Have you forgotten? There are no people around here. Only NPCs with no will of their own or we would have a Skynet Sentient situation here. All they do is follow an algorithm to ensure they have a variated amount of responses.

Boop Bipp.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Hotdog_Water666 said:

You have to understand in topics like these the fanboys will come out and say "the game isn't about you." Me and 4 other people want the game to be harder so it should. Imo they need to stop listening to the vets because they have proven from my time on these forums to be the biggest jerks. This is someones opinion and DE needs to hear it if they feel that way. 

It goes both ways. DE needs to hear from people that aren't salty about everything, because most of the times players that are satisfied with the game won't run to forum to rant about how great and engaging a feature is. So commenting in a salt post is a just a counterpoint., especially when that opinion is in GD

[RazerXPrime]

[(PSN)robotwars7]

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Steel Path

·       This will cause things to get nerfed.

Steel path has been out a while now, and nothing has been nerfed with the specifically cited reason as "steel path". usually it's exploitative player behaviour in one form or another that does this.

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

I don`t like that kind of difficulty I prefer difficulty where you have to think before you act (enemy AI).

a lot of us do, but the main issue is that not only is better AI something that takes time to implement, but it's kind of redundant when we can literally lock down an entire room and prevent them from moving or fighting back: doesn't matter how big-brain smart you are, you're still getting trapped if you touch Bastille or Strangledome for example.

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

People making stupid comments like “if this ability can`t kill enemies in steel path then it`s garbage” when we all know there is a complete difference between a lvl 100 bombard and a steel path version.

that's mainly just metaheads that insist on min-maxing everything that talk like that. if something isn't viable for steel path, then I'll swap to something else that is. 

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

To me it`s just boring.

ok, so that's a subjective opinion. believe it or not some people find it interesting: I particularly like when the Acolytes show up.

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

eople banging on and on about it.

then ignore any conversation pertaining to Steel Path. it's a part of the game, so most people are gonna mention it at some point. maybe you could try to interact with more newer players? they likely won't even know what Steel Path is or care about it.

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Helminth System

·       This system makes other warframes irrelevant e.g., Valkyr and Trinity.

no, the kit of these warframes is what makes them irrelevant. Trinity isn't that bad IMO since she's the only truly dedicated support frame, but Valkyr definitely needs looking at. it's just a shame that we aren't getting any reworks for a while, and I imagine some people will defend the current kits with excuses like "just subsume X" or "wait for an invigoration". of course, Helminth should NEVER be a substitute for a rework, but DE has a habit of using Band-aids as permanent fixes.

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

It messes with the theme of the warframe.

maybe not everyone worries about themes too much? personally I like to try configs within a theme, like putting Tesla Nervos on Volt to replace his crappy 1. plus some frames are all over the place thematically, Khora springs to mind, as an originally Spider-themed frame that became the crazy cat-lady frame. 

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

This exacerbates the damage meta even further.

pretty much anything that gives you the ability to damage enemies will exacerbate the meta even further. back when we still had trials, CC frames were by far the most dominant: sure, you'd still have your Ash and Mesa players on nearly every team, but usually there HAD to be at least one CC frame like Vauban around or nobody was going anywhere. the reason "use all the DPS" is the meta now is because DE keeps making modes that focus on killing everything as quickly as possible: Granum Void, Sanctuary Onslaught & ESO, certain open world bounties etc. if you look at modes that focus on something else like defection or Eidolon hunts, DPS isn't as important there (and Trinity becomes relevant lol), and other frames get to shine: it's just hardly anyone tends to play modes that don't involve mass killing by comparison.

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

This will cause nerfs in the future.

I'm starting to think you're being a little paranoid about nerfs. you shouldn't be, unless they come out with a Dev workshop, or something is gamebreakingly powerful in an unintended way.

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

People will complain if DE decides to rework a frame by removing an ability to make it good the that frame.

if they replace an ability with another, better ability, I don't see a problem. that's another reason why Helminth works (but I would still much prefer actual reworks over relying on Helminth 100% of the time, and I think some Helminth lovers might feel the same).

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

This will give DE less reason to go back and look at a frame that need a look over (Hydroid, Nyx, Revenant, Ash).

I'll give you 3 out of those 4: Hydroid and Nyx need full kit reworks, Ash's kit is mostly sound but some additional tweaks to his 4 would be beneficial (and by tweaks I DON'T mena getting old Bladestorm back, ew.). Revenant on the other hand is a pretty damn strong frame: an amazing tank/summoner with self heal and an OK-ish DPS with his ult (could be stronger IMO). again, Helminth is a band-aid, but it's a pretty good one, so I doubt DE will be in a hurry to look at these older frames, especially given their previous statements. the only thing that might do it is incessant community nagging, bordering on harassment, but that can backfire spectacularly, so probably not a good idea.

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

People are using it to “fix” a warframe when really that warframe should get a look over.

·       People making dumb comments like “you don`t like an ability? Just use helminth”.

I think the main reason people have settled for Helminth over reworks is because as I said, DE tend to prefer leaving bandaid fixes in place for the longest possible time and will only fix things properly if there's enough demand for it, they have enough time and resources to spare - which they currently don't with New War right now - and it's in the interests of both the game and the community (and it also has to suit their own vision of the game). the chances of landing all of these criteria are really slim, so Helminth is gonna be here to stay as the frame-fixer for a long time. people defending Helminth are doing so because they know hoping for real reworks any time soon is an exercise in futility.

23 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

People keep on banging on and on about it. 

again, it's a part of the game, and one way you could avoid it is by spending more time helping newer players: not only will you be doing something productive and helping enhance another Tenno's experience, but they won't talk about Helminth or Steel Path because they won't know what those are, or they'll only ask you once and you can tell them not to worry about it for now.

in conclusion, I think you need to chill out a bit, and while I do agree that Helminth shouldn't be a substitute for reworking frames that need it, reworks have always been few and far between and at least Helminth lets us band-aid frames that need it until the day Pablo or someone else at DE gets the green light to draw up a rework. 

 

 

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

It is mildly annoying how people put their foot down on how useful or not a thing is and it feels like they’re referring to it’s performance in Steel Path, since many players whose knowledge on the matter I would potentially respect have locked themselves in SP.

Though I’m not sure whether they are referring to Steel Path or whether they’re referring to how efficient a thing is for grinding or whether they’re referring to how useful it is for their having fun. It’s hard enough to expect qualifiers like “for me it’s not useful”, which would be absolutely valid since many players are at different points in their options available.

When I see players saying something is useless, it’s hard to find it informative or helpful since I’m coming from the angle of “What lets me kill/survive in the first place outside of SP and what merits does it have on its own instead of comparing it to vastly different equipment”, and I wouldn’t be surprised if others were looking for similar information. (Yareli’s a good one; outside of the K-drive thing which I can respect not everyone enjoys, I don’t feel like I can trust what people are saying unless they explain what they’re referring to, which is why I’m looking forward to finishing the quest and finding out for myself)

[JimmuTanno88]

I completely agree, it was unfortunate, at tennocon helminth looked so cool, but it really did turn out to be a pandora's box :/
With steel path, though I personally dislike it, I'm not sure its ever been used as an excuse for nerfs (although I could be remebering incorrectly?)
And as someone in this thread has mentioned, there will keep being a 'death is the best CC' meta until DE goes to the effort of making more CC content.

[Fallen77]

That _ was _ amazing.

This had everything !!!

Too lazy to read the comments atm soooo... that's a troll rright ?

[(PSN)Hotdog_Water666]

17 hours ago, Miser_able said:

and what about the people who like them as they are and dont want them to be changed?

Then they can make their own topic and say how much they love it. Everyone has an opinion and if more people want it one way than the other that's fine. But telling someone to pipe down because "this game isn't about you" is stupid. This game is about each of us individually and each individual should try to make the game into the game they want. 

 

15 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It goes both ways. DE needs to hear from people that aren't salty about everything, because most of the times players that are satisfied with the game won't run to forum to rant about how great and engaging a feature is. So commenting in a salt post is a just a counterpoint., especially when that opinion is in GD

So countersalting the salt. Nice. Like I said you can have an opinion but that doesn't make OP's any less valid and they are allowed to voice it. If anyone reads this understand most people are on these forums crying all the time. See the post about "vets" and helminth because boohoo I sold my old frames already. Don't be afraid to post your opinion and ignore the people who try to shut you down.

[SneakyErvin]

You dont want nerfs, atleast that is what it sounds like since that is your first point regarding why SP is bad. At the same time you want A.I based difficulty... 

How does that even add up?

[Miser_able]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Hotdog_Water666 said:

Then they can make their own topic and say how much they love it. Everyone has an opinion and if more people want it one way than the other that's fine. But telling someone to pipe down because "this game isn't about you" is stupid. This game is about each of us individually and each individual should try to make the game into the game they want. 

I didn't tell you to pipe down. I was just merely pointing out the hypocrisy in wanting content to be changed to suit your whims but getting upset at content being designed around other peoples desires.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Hotdog_Water666 said:

Then they can make their own topic and say how much they love it. Everyone has an opinion and if more people want it one way than the other that's fine. But telling someone to pipe down because "this game isn't about you" is stupid. This game is about each of us individually and each individual should try to make the game into the game they want. 

 

So countersalting the salt. Nice. Like I said you can have an opinion but that doesn't make OP's any less valid and they are allowed to voice it. If anyone reads this understand most people are on these forums crying all the time. See the post about "vets" and helminth because boohoo I sold my old frames already. Don't be afraid to post your opinion and ignore the people who try to shut you down.

Not at all, actually. 

If people want to get rid of bullet jumping and the movement system, they shouldn't try to make the game their game. They should leave the game.

[(PSN)Hotdog_Water666]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Not at all, actually. 

If people want to get rid of bullet jumping and the movement system, they shouldn't try to make the game their game. They should leave the game.

See what I mean about the vets?