The new Circuit game mode invalidates Warframe parts grind, and I'm torn

[Silligoose]

3 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

So as far as I have understood, the new Circuit mode enables players to do missions in sequence and get rewards. Among those rewards are warframe parts and blueprints, including frames whose parts or main blueprints are acquired only through their respective quests. While on the one hand I'm glad that new players won't have to endure the grind for parts, I can't help but feel that DE kinda spat in the face of all the players that poured days upon days grinding assassination missions, spy missions, or defection (yuk) missions trying to get all the parts for the warframe they wanted. And it's not like Warframes have MR requirements. The only "requirement" relies on a certain planet being accessible, so you can farm the frame in that planet, but the whole thing is now bypassed with the Circuit mode, and the only limit would be the materials required for building the frames, as they can be exclusive to a planet.

Now maybe I have understood the Circuit mode wrong, and it only enables you to get those warframes if you have already farmed them once or something. But if that is not the case, then what about the frames that are obtainable through quests? Will the quest count as completed once you have made the frame or something?

So in summary, while I have always been a proponent of less grind and more substance, and DE is certainly trying to lessen it, I feel kinda bad that I (and the majority of the playerbase) had to spend so much time grinding, while new players will save a ton of time.

This reminds me of when players were given Necramechs with a new quest. I didn't mind that even thoughthey got to skip the grind I went through and I don't really mind players being able to farm frames via Circuit, even if means that they won't have to go through the grind I did for certain frames.

That being said, I personally do not think Duviri is a good starting point for players.

Spoiler

It messes with the flow and growth in player power experienced as one goes through the Star Chart, has too many RNG elements regarding builds taking away from the depth of the game that players can learn and has a storyline that boils down to it all being a dream.

Add to that putting new players through Drifter gameplay... If Warframe was an F1 racing game, Drifter content would be a side quest in which you drive a sedan stuck in a traffic jam towards the actual race. It is fine as a side quest, but a very poor introduction to the game, as it isn't representative of the main game and does not really even come close to demonstrating the strengths of this game.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

I was glad they put Nidus in there, I've been trying to get his neuroptics from infested salvage for months and they just won't drop. I was able to rank up 2-3 times and get them for basically free so I could feed him to helminth.

[Grommile]

56 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

If Warframe was an F1 racing game, Drifter content would be a side quest in which you drive a sedan stuck in a traffic jam towards the actual race.

Don't give EA ideas.

[stormy505]

Weird af gate keeping. The lack of respect this game has for player time is a big reason I don't recommend it to new players. The circuit just makes some of the more obnoxious old grinds way more manageable and also guaranteed for players.

Speaking of. Can we do something about some of the awful weapon grinds like the hema?

[(NSW)Greybones]

I find it not really a problem, since I lucked into the drops just by doing the missions for the fight or build-testing or leveling things or whatever instead of exclusively cracking my skull against the brick wall that is RNG trying to get specific items out of it.

That said, it does make me feel like the focus will be less on updating or tweaking boss designs, which makes me sad. So many of them can be great with minor adjustments (though some need overhauls like Jordas). Though that said they do still focus on things that the majority of players aren’t interested in, so I’ve got some hope

[Arbalest2]

Purely subjective, but for me the various grind for warframes was one of the first hooks that got me to love this game.

If that varied grind was replaced by a weekly mode I likely would have quit before getting into the game. 

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

Agree. The game is jacked. It took me forever to grind for Octavia. I got her a second time in about 90 minutes. Really unfair to those of us who earned all the non prime frames the hard way. Protea systems is the last I need for all non primes and circuit really turned that system on its head. You have to wait a week but ridiculously more easy.

In fact I will probably wait for protea unless farming tenets gets me that last drop first.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

- not everyone will wnat to do circuit, even if they started in Duviri, and if theywant access to later quests and Steel path, they'll have to do normal nodes and quests anyway.

- it's random which 3 frames get picked, there's a high chance it won't be the one you want.

- people have always said that DE need to reduce the grind; well taking a frame that could take countless missions to farm and making it so that you only need to do a few circuit runs for it sounds like one hell of a reduction in grind to me. 

- access to the parts via the usual means of acquisition have not been removed: if anything, you have more ways to get the same item, which can only be a good thing (to a degree: Forma BPs on every relic are kinda problematic.)

the only issue I see here is people thinking "I suffered, so you have to suffer too", when that's not how an evolving online game works. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

New players have no idea about the other side of the game until they clear Duviri. At that point, they will then experience the legendary game of Warframe that everyone else has enjoyed over the past 10+ years. They can pursue frames and rewards from two completely different game modes...and the vets all have that same opportunity.

It is a dual hook-up and it's a shame people have actually found a way to make it a negative feature.

[(PSN)rexis12]

As someone that spent well over a month, running C Rotations Disruptions for 8 rounds each time and failing to get Gauss until the 120 Rotation.

Yeah no, I do not mind having a much easier farm for newer players because as annoying as it might seem to see them get things much easier. I'd rather them enjoy the game than be frustrated at it.

Let them invalidate our efforts, if the efforts we put in were annoying painful and an irritating grind, I wouldn't want that on the rest of the Playerbase.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I sympathise a little, just personally disagree. I don't feel like DE spat in my face. Also, I get that its not always super literal, but I also personally find it too strange when people frame such conversations in this way. Players and Developers, Consumers and Businesses, its... its an exchange. I would advise getting involved in interactions if you sense potential for them to "spit in your face". Its not so personal, they want money, whether thats through engagement, your time, energy or you know actual money. Also not yours specifically, as much as they can. I mean, yours is great too, but if they could somehow magically make a billion dollars by sending the Stalker to kill your favourite in game Kavat... Bit of an abstract example there, but you get my point? 

Anyway I am personally pro player choices. I get your stance, just for myself, I don't care, I even like when newer players can get more choices than what I did, but also depends a bit on context. Circuit only offers 3 Warframe, and its predetermined. Also people could always just buy Warframes with money/Plat. If I personally started over? I'd probably still acquire most Warframes the normal way. Also, I actually like Disruption, Defection, Railjack etc so the "hard farms" wouldn't really be an issue. I might take the Circuit route for certain RNG Warframes like Khora, but on my actual regular account, I played a lot of ESO for the Braton Vandal and Lato Vandal anyway, and to Focus Farm, and also to get Radiated Relics. Oh mind you, ESO isn't SO, but eh, my point is, I'd probably do the Circuit version to mitigate RNG rather than view as a way to "skip". Also for myself, well waiting a few weeks, to get something, isn't that appealing. 

For others? Having the choice? Thats fine and great. I also think its a good way to help them get some Arcanes and Augments too, and its not as if the Circuit is without hassle or issues either. There is still a cost of sorts involved. 

[Hypernaut1]

16 hours ago, Voltage said:

 

It's the same weird feeling every time we get a Prime Warframe that is substantially easier to get compared to their base counterpart because of how trivial Fissures and earning Relics have become.

 

Even as a new player, crafting primes without needing the original always felt off. It took a while to get used to WFs idea of progression. 

16 hours ago, Voltage said:

 

 

[Voltage]

16 hours ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

You cannot be serious in this stance of an argument. Y'all... y'all know Platinum exists, right? Y'all know it takes less than a week itself to farm up enough platinum to just buy a Warframe outright, completely skipping the direct grind for the Warframe, yes? We already had a shortcut in game that completely bypassed the torturous grind some of these Warframes are behind without an 18 long week rotation to get the specific Warframe that you want to show up and farm Duviri for. A person can earn platinum well before the Warframe they want out of Duviri even appears if they are looking for Khora, Ivara, Nidus, Ash, Titania, etc. 

Just... this is an argument that has no leg to stand on.

If you grind Platinum (which is more efficient for time) and exclusively buy your way through grind, are you really doing yourself a favor? Warframe is pay to win by allowing you to do this, but every purchase you make for items you can farm, you're paying to play the game less.

[Tsukinoki]

17 hours ago, Grommile said:

Eleven weeks (if they aren't repeating a week because of bugs) – only 33 frames are available in the Circuit rotation. Of the 39 base frames with variants available, six are not available from the circuit:

• Equinox, presumably because her blueprints don't fit into the loot progression (she has nine instead of the normal four)
• Volt, Wukong, Banshee, Zephyr, and Nezha, presumably because their blueprints can be obtained from Dojo research.

I stand corrected, and thanks for correcting me.

At that point you can't get 2/5ths of the frames from the circuit so there is even less of a leg to stand on for the others and OP to complain about.

I assumed you could get every base frame, but you can't.  Oh well, I never paid too close attention to the normal circuit outside of randomly picking a normal frame just so I could grind the SP circuit (as the SP circuit requires a base circuit reward to have been selected for some reason...).

This just means that the circuit is even less of a "shortcut" than I though.  You can only get 33 frames, you have to wait for them to show up within a 3 month period, and you have multiple hours worth of grind to get to rank 10 meanwhile just grinding the frame itself doesn't take nearly as long.

 

I honestly can't see why anyone would think that the new players have it so much easier than we did...it's utterly absurd.
It's still a grind, just a different grind.  And even then not for every frame since they aren't all available in the circuit.

[MystMan]

So basically the tl;dr of this thread is the Crab-Bucket effect.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, MystMan said:

So basically the tl;dr of this thread is the Crab-Bucket effect.

"If I can't have it, neither can you"

Pretty much it. 

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

On 2023-07-04 at 7:50 AM, Voltage said:

If you grind Platinum (which is more efficient for time) and exclusively buy your way through grind, are you really doing yourself a favor? Warframe is pay to win by allowing you to do this, but every purchase you make for items you can farm, you're paying to play the game less.

Ah, yes, please, continue to tell people how to enjoy their time on the game. Also, continue to be disingenuous as well. The argument was that it's much quicker to farm either Platinum, or the missions themselves the harder-to-farm Warframes are stuck behind than it is to wait on the 18 week rotation on Duviri, and that we always had a quick shortcut to a Warframe we do not want to farm hours for in the form of trading, not that it's quicker to buy all gear through the shop (even if true, not the point).  Most players fall somewhere in the middle where they buy things here and there instead of constantly, and farm when most reasonable. 

Furthermore, in most cases, people are either paying because of not wanting to wait, or not wanting to play content they do not get enjoyment out of at all. Most players are not whales. 

But, eh, Goal Post, yeah?

[0_The_F00l]

The  circuit is an alternative to existing grind ,but it is not a significant time saver or grind skipper.

While in the past on average you would spend maybe 3 hours to grind a frame , now you need near 4 hours if you do so casually.

What it does skip is a significant amount of rng dependency ,you know what you will get at the end of your journey which has been an annoyance for ages.

It also is very curated , so you can't just farm everything in a day. The time gate will either let you drip or force you to do the original grind anyway.

So I am actually happy to see this to mitigate much of the problems . Maybe we will see more niche frame users cause they are more easily accessible.

[(PSN)rexis12]

Honestly I'd understand it if it was, like, super Rare Arcanes and feeling a bit miffed st them just dropping R5 Energise as a reward (As SICK as that would be).

But it's just basic Warframes, with occasional rare Mods (One time I got Spring Loaded Blade, POG).

I wouldn't want people to be denied a chance to play a different Frame due to RNG continually screwing them over.

[Drachnyn]

Literally cry about it.

[CephalonCarnage]

The biggest problem isn;t the lack of grind but the destruction of the progression system. You can;t get Saryn as a starter frame for good reason, you should go fight for it. Now DE says "screw all that, the game is arena shooter and all rewards are available".

Its not so much a spit in the face of players who farmed frames the old way, but more a spit in the face of 10 years of warframe only to get this spoon-fed alternative that makes the old game irrelevant.

 

Its not just frames, but the arcanes, rare mods and other bits that you had to get through gameplay, some of which are end-game stuff. Now its just turn up, shoot a few things, repeat. Win. Then go play normal warframe with your mk-1 braton, only now you have a bunch of arcanes you can add to it. They made the well balanced beginning game into the OP end-game meta. Its incredible how dumb this is.

[HyperDiver]

En 3/7/2023 a las 9:53, inappropriatename5877 dijo:

1) You are mentioning things (focus, arcane, mechanics) I never once said I was irked about

2) It's not a "few starter frames". According to the wiki, there is a rotation of a total of 33 frames, which is more than half of the total frames that are currently in the game

3) I have to reiterate that I AM glad that new players don't get to endure the grind we had to endure. Being "torn" though is not about gatekeeping, but about expressing conflicting emotions about an event. I do not aim to gatekeep, but I still feel like the hours I poured into the game to farm the frames just went up in flames, in a sense.

The post is more like a mini vent of sorts

Your time with the game was literally untouched. The "thing" that "went in flames" is your perception of value your time had in the game. It's a game nonetheless, and thus your time's worth is entirely up to you. Objectively speaking what you just grinded for is entirely untouched, and the time you spent doing it is worthless anyway, since it is a game.

 

[kamisama85]

On 2023-07-04 at 7:50 AM, Voltage said:

If you grind Platinum (which is more efficient for time) and exclusively buy your way through grind, are you really doing yourself a favor? Warframe is pay to win by allowing you to do this, but every purchase you make for items you can farm, you're paying to play the game less.

Cannot really agree to this stance relative to the ongoing pay to win subject. If you're choosing to grind platinum as your alternate path to some item or cosmetic, then you are simply choosing a different grind. I know you along with many others have already emphasized time and again how much Warframe has a focus on grinding things out. As such, time and effort is still being applied to get this platinum (i.e. RNG farm on relics, listing the items, making the time to complete transactions, saving up the necessary amount). If a player is more comfortable with this approach, then I am glad they have a more comfortable method vs. the type of grind I prefer which is usually just long endurance hours against RNG odds or week after week incremental collection.

Duviri as a game feature serves as a master item catalogue for new players to try everything in the game right away and get a taste for everything that exists. Rather than invest in one weapon and one frame at the very start for lack of knowing there were better options, they are now afforded a broad exposure to all the offerings in this 10+ year game, FOR FREE. A major plus in my opinion.

Whether some veterans feel this cheapens their efforts or not, I think we can all agree that bringing new players up to speed as fast as possible is healthier for the whole playerbase in general regardless of the method they choose in the end.

[Zakalwe]

On 2023-07-04 at 1:50 PM, Voltage said:

If you grind Platinum (which is more efficient for time) and exclusively buy your way through grind, are you really doing yourself a favor? Warframe is pay to win by allowing you to do this, but every purchase you make for items you can farm, you're paying to play the game less.

What is this logic?

If a player figures out they can farm elsewhere and sell items to buy the frame they still played the game to get there.

That's just smart use of time. Time being the most precious resource all of us have.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

What is this logic?

If a player figures out they can farm elsewhere and sell items to buy the frame they still played the game to get there.

That's just smart use of time. Time being the most precious resource all of us have.

It's just a fact. You can choose to play the gameplay for the rewards or you can buy your way through most of those same rewards. You can sit in trade chat and warframe.market flipping stuff and just get most items. Whether that's worth it for you is obviously your choice, but you're spending time or money in trading/buying platinum to bypass playing the gameplay. I did this personally with Citrine's update. I found Mirror Defense to be a boring gamemode and whaled myself through almost all of the items offered from playing it.