Why is this nightwave challenge still in rotation? I thought DE was removing the terrible old challenges.

[Olovan]

 

This challenge is nothing but a massive waste of everyone's time and sanity. Even if you camp the goal the entire game the AI will still die or the enemy will pick up a token off the ground and if you take your eyes off the goal for 1 second someone will score a point. It would be bad enough if it only required you to maintain this stupidity for 1 round but it's required three rounds in a row!

Before someone says "Just cheese it with Limbo" the entire point of the Nightwave changes was that it was removing challenges that were unattainable to the average player or too time consuming. This challenge is both very time consuming to run 3 rounds with no mistakes and requires a hyper specific frame setup to utilize an obscure interaction between the scoring zone hitbox and the rift mechanic. That's not something an average player knows about and can be expected to accomplish.

In what world is "Kill 1 Silver Grove Specter" removed but this garbage is kept around? Please DE just delete this abomination from the face of the earth.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Olovan
fixing typo

[trst]

Not sure how joining a random Index and watching your own goal is supposed to be time consuming or "unattainable by the average player" but ok.

Also as far I can tell Day Trader was never mentioned in the patch notes plus it doesn't even match their criteria for being changed/removed. Since it's not grindy and you can do it however you want so long as the enemy never scores.

On 2023-10-18 at 10:58 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Revised Nightwave Acts
In the 4 years of Nightwave history, many Acts have come and gone. This update brings revisions to existing Nightwave Acts that have been reworked with two approaches: a) to reduce the grind required to complete some Acts, and b) to expand the ways in which players can complete them!

[Oldskinzz]

Not saying you're wrong, it can be quite difficult for a solo inexperienced player. But here's my advice... Do it in a team. Get into the matchmaking channel and form a team (less chance of grief) or take a chance and hop into a pub. Everytime this challenge rolls around I see lots of Limbos in pub index matches so there's a pretty good chance you'll land in a team that can do the job without too much hassle.

To put things in perspective, killing a silver Grove specter isn't difficult either but it involves going around scanning plants and there are people who dislike doing that in a war game... this is probably the group DE wanted to appease when they removed it. So to each his own, can't please everyone.

You also have the option of skipping the challenge entirely and you'll still get enough points to complete the whole NW by season's end anyway... I'm doing that for the stuff I don't like, such as Orb Vallis bounties.

[Voltage]

I can understand the annoyance here. However, there is some important math to consider.

DE added permanent weekly acts. Every week, you get 3 challenges that total to 13,500 reputation. These challenges are:

1. Complete 15 missions
2. Kill 500 enemies
3. Kill 30 Eximus

If you were to only do these 3 challenges and skip every other weekly and daily, you would need 23 weeks to reach Rank 30 in Nightwave.

Nightwave: Nora's Mix Vol. 4 was active between May 24th, 2023 and November 22md, 2023. That is 26 weeks long. 

You can very likely get Rank 30 from just ignoring every challenge besides the new permanent weeklies that are very accessible and easy to do on accident while playing the game normally. I am not even going into a deep dive of all the other challenges that are quite easy to do while playing normally.

And yes, "just use Limbo" is actually a fine answer. There is nothing wrong with the game rewarding for bringing the right gear for the task at hand. None of Nightwave's challenges are really "fun". They are chores for a progress meter. DE has graciously made it so relaxed to get Rank 30 that you can ignore a substantial amount of challenges and still finish a season, you just have to be somewhat active.

[sunderthefirmament]

27 minutes ago, Olovan said:

 

This challenge is nothing but a massive waste of everyone's time and sanity. Even if you camp the goal the entire game the AI will still die or the enemy will pick up a token off the ground and if you take your eyes off the goal for 1 second someone will score a point. It would be bad enough if it only required you to maintain this stupidity for 1 round but it's required three rounds in a row!

Before someone says "Just cheese it with Limbo" the entire point of the Nightwave changes was that it was removing challenges that were unattainable to the average player or too time consuming. This challenge is both very time consuming to run 3 rounds with no mistakes and requires a hyper specific frame setup to utilize an obscure interaction between the scoring zone hitbox and the rift mechanic. That's not something an average player knows about and can be expected to accomplish.

In what world is "Kill 1 Silver Grove Specter" removed but this garbage is kept around? Please DE just delete this abomination from the face of the earth.

I posted about it in mission feedback.  I was really hoping this tedious challenge was gone, but alas, it's back.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

44 minutes ago, trst said:

so long as the enemy never scores.

This is the problem part

[TheArmchairThinker]

A possible solution : Vauban

Put tether on walls with high range and turn enemies into pinatas. Stack them at one spot and enjoy blinding yourself and your teammates as a bonus

 

[YUNoJump]

The thing that gets me about the "no enemy score" condition is that it isn't really how you play Index, its an unnatural method. With the ally bots it's natural that the enemy scores a bit, but you don't need to worry as long as you score more and keep the timer up. Nightwave is partially designed to make you interact with parts of the game you don't normally interact with, so the weird side condition isn't necessary.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

26 minutes ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

This is the problem part

Except it's not a problem if you don't always try and tackle it solo.

[trst]

47 minutes ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

This is the problem part

Except that "problem" has nothing to do with their criteria for reworking/removing acts. And it's literally overcome by ensuring you either kill the enemies before they score, keep them CC'd so they can't score, and/or just joining/forming a group that's semi-competent.

None of this is something the average player should be struggling with. And even if you are you can always just skip the act.

[0_The_F00l]

All nightwave acts are intended to sink your time. So that's not a surprise.

You just need to decide if it's worth it.

A well coordinated team can still manage this, a solo player will be let down by the Ally AI more than anything else.

I don't think 3 times in a row is fun though ,it has a very high frustration if you loose after sinking a certain amount of time through no fault of your own.

I haven't done index in years and I don't plan to do it now , this will likely be ignored by me unless some friends happen to be online with at the same time.

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by 0_The_F00l

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

46 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Except it's not a problem if you don't always try and tackle it solo.

24 minutes ago, trst said:

Except that "problem" has nothing to do with their criteria for reworking/removing acts. And it's literally overcome by ensuring you either kill the enemies before they score, keep them CC'd so they can't score, and/or just joining/forming a group that's semi-competent.

None of this is something the average player should be struggling with. And even if you are you can always just skip the act.

Giving the solution to the problem whilst ignoring the problem

Good DE move guys.

Lead by example but not by action, thats what grandpa the war vet would say

Or

The problem is a difficult to obtain goal that requires cheesing the game or boring the player with menial tasks,

instead of challenging both.   please note the challenging part

Get 70 index points and be ahead of the opposition by 30 points - a Real Solution

Edited December 13, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[Sojufueled]

Now that I know NW is gonna run for like a year and a half, I just skip these.

[PollexMessier]

I use a low range Gara for these. the enemies can't get through her glass wall so you can just gate them from their bank.
As long as you refresh it between rounds and camp it to make sure no enemies break it it's basically a guaranteed win.
Granted, this is a cheese strat.

A coordinated team can handle this easily tho. 3 players camping the enemy bank at all times while one runs to bank their points is more than enough to keep the enemy from banking. The issue is actually getting players to coordinate like that.

I don't think it's too bad tho. What I'd like to see is just the damn useless specters removed from index so all you'd have to do to accomplish this is not die and make sure no enemies pick up other enemies' points. The specters are always a detriment and I don't understand why they're even there other than to bully players for not having friends.

[sunderthefirmament]

8 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

A possible solution : Vauban

Put tether on walls with high range and turn enemies into pinatas. Stack them at one spot and enjoy blinding yourself and your teammates as a bonus

 

I’m still too traumatized from a friendly Vauban ruining this challenge for me a few seasons ago by his Vortex pulling an enemy with a single point into the goal. I don’t trust tethers to move enemies predictably. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I would much rather have a Limbo on the team. 
 

8 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I don't think 3 times in a row is fun though ,it has a very high frustration if you loose after sinking a certain amount of time through no fault of your own.

I think it would be much more in line with the new NW philosophy to reduce the requirement to one round with no enemies scoring. But I would still prefer that DE remove it.  We’ve all got our least favorites. This one is definitely mine. 

[-Krism-]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Except it's not a problem if you don't always try and tackle it solo.

I did this challenge solo, so even that isn't really a problem

[Tsukinoki]

48 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I would much rather have a Limbo on the team. 

Limbo?

Just use fracturing tectonic atlas.  AI can't pass through the walls and won't attack them.
3 can block off the goal if placed in a box shape around the platform with the back of the goal being the fourth side, and then you're perfectly safe to complete the missing relatively quickly as you can focus on offense.
Works even better in a team.

The only times you might have trouble is the hyena model because he does AOE and will occasionally damage the wall, and the raptor as sometimes it glitches through the wall due to it wiggling against the cieling of the goal.

But in a standard starchart I haven't had my walls drop below 80% health in 3 rounds.

10 hours ago, Olovan said:

In what world is "Kill 1 Silver Grove Specter" removed but this garbage is kept around? Please DE just delete this abomination from the face of the earth.

Because "Kill 1 Silver Grove Specter" relies on:
-Traipsing around the system looking for plants to scan (which if you need the frostleaf better hope that you don't have the RNG of spawning in an indoor tile on a corpus outpost or no frostleaf will spawn in that map....)
-Waiting for the right time of day on Earth to do specific scans...especially for the Nightfall Apothic that requires you scanning one plant at Day and another at Night
-RNG of the silver grove spawning in a map

And depending on your playtime its possible for one version of earth to be hard to get to most days.....which locks you out of some apothics all together.

 

Meanwhile day trader requires:
-A coordinated team
-Playing a gamemode where you kill enemies in a small arena

And even if you don't want to cheese day trader for a guaranteed pass it is doable in a well coordinated team, and if you have a full team and do normal starchart I would be surprised if the enemies get a single kill.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Tsukinoki

[sunderthefirmament]

2 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Limbo?

Just use fracturing tectonic atlas.  AI can't pass through the walls and won't attack them.
3 can block off the goal if placed in a box shape around the platform with the back of the goal being the fourth side, and then you're perfectly safe to complete the missing relatively quickly as you can focus on offense.
Works even better in a team.

If I’m already on a team, then I can just play Limbo and maintain my 2 and perfectly sized 4. I’ve got casting speed shards on Limbo now, so there’s virtually no downtime. With enough enemy radar on the build, I can also see exactly where every enemy is and whether I can refresh my bubble or not. This is, I believe, the one area in the game where Limbo is still meta. In other places, his CC has been devalued or hamstrung by eximi. 
 

There are plenty of ways to complete this challenge. But I still think it sucks, and should have been toned down or removed. 

[Vaml77]

This game mode is actually one of the worst things about warframe. But to achieve this, just play on the minimum difficulty level which is enough to win....using a wisp, vauban, gara, khora or frost is highly recommended to block the opposing team's path. Gara is excellent in this place....

I agree that it should be removed from nw and replaced with duviri missions which are much more interesting.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I just avoid that one. I've done it to help friends before, it's not a problem, I just don't like running the Index at all. you don't have to do every single act to hit 30, and this season has basically only just started, you have like a whole 3 months or more to get it done.

should they have removed this challenge? perhaps, but they didn't, so you gotta either avoid it or buck up and do it, the choice is yours. 

[Aruquae]

11 hours ago, Olovan said:

Before someone says "Just cheese it with Limbo" the entire point of the Nightwave changes was that it was removing challenges that were unattainable to the average player or too time consuming.

Anyone who says “Just cheese it with Limbo” definitely hasn’t used him there. 

Just an FYI for those who didn’t know, they still move while in stasis. Jerky movement yes, but they still move closer to the goal. If you can’t kill them there’s nothing you can do. Yet more Limbo slander from the devs 

I recommend anything gloom related, the slow doesn’t just randomly stop working unlike poor Limbo. Another thing would be Vauben. Not sure if this was a bug or not, but he can suck everyone into his vortex so long as he has energy. It’s beautiful 

[SneakyErvin]

I'd suggest just jumping into public with Citrine and swap her #4 for nourish while running a high ranged build. With the relatively low enemy count it means that a well placed crystal helps debuff and damage practically any enemy attacked on the map but most importantly around your goal, which slows them down severely thanks to her cold, heat and electric procs. You also cover most of your team mates with Nourish, plus you have an 50m damage absorbtion buff along with an absurd amount of health/energy orb spawns from your fractured blast. Oh and passive minimal reg for everyone heh. It wont have time to stack up properly for any significant amount though.

And if no one else wants to play goalie she is more than fine at that.

When I recently did it with her all I did was run around tracking the mini-map enemy markers and engaging/killing them with fractured blast and her crystal mostly. While staying close enough to our goal to keep track of potential spawns around it. Just make sure to clean up the shards and turn them in if needed, if others are close let them pick them.

Edited December 13, 2023 by SneakyErvin

[Dunkelheit]

I have never ever lost a single attempt of this challenge. Can't be that hard, can it? Limbo or Khora make short work of it.

[DarknessNightshade]

I've always hated this mission because it's more time consuming than it is difficult. 

The reward is disproportionate to the amount of time spent doing the task compared to others. 

Especially when that task is so niche that you can't do other challenges at the same time (like doing multiple kill quota missions/headshots/mission types at the same time)

For some examples of weekly tasks:

- Kill 20 enemies in 5 seconds (Fairly trivial with an AoE weapon)

- Feed resources to the wall (Takes literally seconds to walk there from booting up the game)

- Hack 10 consoles (can be done in conjunction with other tasks)

- Polarise a slot using a Forma (again, literally just a walk to the armory)

- Unlock 3 Relics (can be done in any fissure mission type, in conjunction with other tasks, possibly get a Forma BP on the way)

- Destroy a crewship with artillery (Takes a little longer to load into a railjack elimination mission but is still fairly trivial)

While you're sitting in Index trying to get 50-100 points on 3 consecutive missions, that can take 10-15 minutes to exceeding half an hour depending on team composition.

Nobody plays Index on Low because the rewards just aren't worth time spent vs High, unless you're super desperate for the Nightwave rep.

I think it is probably one of the worst weekly tasks compared to everything else.

[Hayrack]

1st time failed because players were focusing on useless killing and leaving credits near homebase.

2nd time failed on round 3 because of host migration bug.

3rd time failed on round 1 because of host migration bug.

4th time finaly managed to do this.

Sigh...