Catchmoon is being nerfed...

[DrivaMain]

11 hours ago, Soullessxv said:

We need to see a nerf to arcane energize as well since we are nerfing things.  This one arcane gives you an unlimited energy supply. And make it so only one arcane of that type can be equipped at once. 

 

45 minutes ago, Soullessxv said:

Of course I am mad it got nerfed.  I spent countless hours blowing countless kuva, using lots of plat on different catchmoon rivens, and now all is just a waste of time and money.  So why bother playing this game investing in anything else when it will probably get nerfed?  I would rather play something else instead of wasting time here.  Buy a riven for 800p then week latter they nerf item and riven cant even sell for half price now, how would you feel?

 

Doesn't even matter anymore, ill just delete all my crap and move to another game.  Oh wait, already did...

[Rahlence]

Awww, somebody is upset their crutchmoon is getting nerfed.  They need a hug.

 

[RobWasHere]

13 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I would like to see what the MR27 Arcane Usage spreadsheet looks like, and then ask DE why they are nerfing one of the 'best in slot' items and not the others.

However, I'm not going to say that they need to get nerfed. I only want DE to be held to account for inconsistency.

Let me guess, Guardian and Grace would be like, 30-50% uses? No reason to bring anything else outside Eidolons where you bring Nullifier/Sniper Reload.

[(PSN)thegarada]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

I'd say the only Arcane to really need a nerf is grace and then it'd be more of a change it to a flat number and not a percentage due to how busted it can get with Inaros and likely the upcoming Grendel. Energize would be the next on the list but i don't think it's like really broken. maybe lower the amount of extra energy it gives by a bit.

I find this somewhat funny, considering that magus repair is like million times stronger than arcane grace. And since it does not go on the frame, but on the operator, you can equip another arcane that adds more survivability or damage. None of them need a nerf.

[Raikh]

Way to nuke your point OP. Spite surely provides the best feedback.
The fact that you invested the energy to come to the forums and try to cause an uproar due to a change that affects like half the high MR playerbase is just plain sad. Even more so if you actually quit the game over this. Being upset over changes is ok but that behaviour is just pathetic.

Just for arguments sake though. Catchmoon is one out of 100ish secondaries. Among those 100 we have probably 20-30 who are pretty good overall and not just weapons outclassed by others.

What do we have for arcanes that are usable? Energize, Grace, Guardian, Avenger are probably the 4 good allr-ounder ones. Avenger is even sorta specific as you ahve to take damage to activate it, still listing it as it provides a pretty substantial dps increase to all of your weapons and scales multiplicatively with Blood Rush for melee weapons. For those who don't know Avenger is 30% additive crit chance, not a multiplier like normal crit mods.

For niches we have Nullifier (Eidolons), Velocity (Mesa), Trickery (Ash), Fury/Strike (Melee/Ash), Ultimatum(Finisher) and even those are super niche or very specifc to a Warframe or build.

Additionally you can have 2 Arcanes equipped, which will automatically increase how many people run Energize for instance, since you can still use a niche or other general sue arcane in your second slot. Additionally arcanes can vary from Warfram to Warframe. You don't really have sue for Energize on Inaros for instance. While you simply slap Catchmoon on every loadout and thats it.

So we have way less options, can run multiple arcanes but only one secondary. OFC people are going to run a specifc arcane with super high percentages. Its unavoidable. Most arcanes are plain useless or undertuned. Recently added Arcanes are just very bad and only clog up arbirtration droptables. Nerfing catchmoon leads to a meta diversity as there are other good weapon simply outshined by catchmoons pracitcability and ease of use, not even straight up damage. Arcanes on the other hand after nerfing the popular ones would leave players with a false choice, because most of them are just irrelevant. Irrelevancy is not a good choice maker, even if statistics mgiht show a more diversified use of arcanes.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Raikh

[844448]

3 hours ago, Soullessxv said:

Of course I am mad it got nerfed.  I spent countless hours blowing countless kuva, using lots of plat on different catchmoon rivens, and now all is just a waste of time and money.  So why bother playing this game investing in anything else when it will probably get nerfed?  I would rather play something else instead of wasting time here.  Buy a riven for 800p then week latter they nerf item and riven cant even sell for half price now, how would you feel?

You need riven for that? My catchmoon doesn't use any riven yet still wiping out high risk index enemies with a few shots.

Besides, it's just some reduction in range, it's not like they reduce the base damage or something else

Perhaps you want to try my Plasma Cutter catchmoon combination and build?

[SneakyErvin]

7 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Arbitrations can be considdered as the hardest content in the game, if majority chooses primary Catchmoon to beat this content, the messege is clear.

And please stop trying to discredit or badmouth presented numbers, your arguments against them make no sense. Not only because you are a meta rider with Catchmoon being the most used weapon with most kills across all weapons on your account.

I'm no meta rider. The reason it is the most used weapon is because I cant be bothered to switch weapons between each mission. And most kills is easily racked up because the gun has seen most use in arbitrations, is an AoE and get kill count for every mob that also dies from the drone going kerblamo, aswell as also having been formad several times through active gameplay as opposed to the snoozing in Hydron that many prefer. This is a weapon that goes on every frame for the sake of being able to drop into arbitrations whenever I feel like on whichever frame I wanna go with. If there was no catchmoon, that area of use would have fallen on my primary in the shape of arca plasmor or ignis wraith probably, not because of the stats or damage, but because of the ease of use versus drones specifically. And it would have been the same there, left on, on all frames due to the freedom of just hitting up an arbitration without having to bother switching parts of the kit.

And if you havent understood yet, I'm not against nerfs hitting the catchmoon, I'm against knee-jerk nerfs that are taking the gun from one extreme to another. Balanced nerfs, even if it would take more than a patch to get to the right spot, is the way to go. This current "take off and nuke it from orbit" approach simply isnt the right one and never has been, no matter the game.

edit: With the coming changes I will likely just go back to Arca or Ignis Wraith while leaving single target damage to my secondary slot, kinda like how it was before i.e 1 ranged AoE, 1 ranged single target and 1 melee, it is just that the loadout slots for each specific ranged job will switch.

Edited October 30, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[Helminth]

So just because someone sinks time and/or plat into getting a full set of arcanes to get more energy it should be nerfed 

[Shinigami_Greed]

The lex prime has been my highest usage secondary for years.

Not even Catchmoon changed that.  And it was the only kitgun I made.

Praise be the golden magnum.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

I'd say the only Arcane to really need a nerf is grace and then it'd be more of a change it to a flat number and not a percentage due to how busted it can get with Inaros and likely the upcoming Grendel. Energize would be the next on the list but i don't think it's like really broken. maybe lower the amount of extra energy it gives by a bit.

Outside of Inaros the Grace arcane is utter S#&$e because the percentage is so low it is barely noticable on "normal" HP frames. Plus, who wastes frame arcane slots on Inaros for Grace when you have access to Magus Repair aswell as a Kavat, both being much more reliable sources of healing while requiring no RNG or plat to obtain.

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

Yeah, you start nerfing legendary arcanes and the Plains will be completely deserted for good.  Its the one pseudo-end game we actually have (especially soloing tridolons) so tossing out incentives to run them is ridiculous.  I used to think they were OP before I started farming them, and once you see how much work it takes to get a full set, they don't even really seem worth the effort if you aren't genuinely enjoying the hunts.  Especially since we have unlimited energy regen from zen, a zaw arcane that gives energy, and multiple operator arcanes (and the relatively easy to farm Arc Victory) for health regen that are better than Grace for all but a few select tanks.  So its not like Energize is required... I only run it on infiltrate Ivara; pretty much every other frame that needs energy that I play gets rage/hunter adrenaline slapped on, which even on a power-hungry frame like a utility/solo tridolon Oberon build is more than enough energy regen on its own.

Besides, your spite-nerf plea may be completely in vain.  Catchmoon is still going to be exceedingly powerful, and unless you were using it at 30-40 yards it isn't going to change that much, especially with a +proj speed slotted in.  Plus we have Magus Anomaly that will pull enemies in from 20m, so even if catchmoon were to be completely useless outside of 10m there are still workarounds, just have to work a tad bit harder for it.  I still plan to use it for arb drones and ghosting vom's on the plains as even with damage falloff it will still be one of the best secondaries in the game for this purpose.  (Though I do wish they'd fix the x27 amps that were broken a month or so ago so that they would actually 1-2 shot vom's again, but that's a different topic in itself)

[Educated_Beast]

I remember when synoid gammacor was the go-to weapon of mass destruction. 

Just relax, there will be another soon.  That is the way this game rolls.  Enjoy the OP weapon until the next comes out.  

[Aadi880]

Tbh, I use a completely different approach in arbitrations. The cronith's alt fire mode may not be strong, but the blast can directly hit the arbitration drone and take it down with not issues at all (arbi drones are not very tanky). I don't even need a secondary, and I could just take, lets say, a Synoid Gammacor or an Atomos. For me, this build works, I can last pretty long in arbi even with Titania (Oh God she really needs a rework).

Also, you are all sleeping on the Gaze chamber. All of you!

Gaze>>>all

[Ferbsol]

Sounds like a gigantic terrible move and seens like u only saying it out of anger cause cathmoon getting nerf. Try other kitguns or the staticor if u want an aoe thing ,they are all about the same and cathmoon was mostly use cause arbitrations and arca rivens got killed. Go get energice cause i imagine u dont have it u will enjoy it.

[Aldain]

3 hours ago, Shinigami_Greed said:

The lex prime has been my highest usage secondary for years.

Not even Catchmoon changed that.  And it was the only kitgun I made.

Praise be the golden magnum.

Praise be the Lex Prime.

My only hope is that the pexilus slot has a recoil reducer mod available, that is the one thing I always wish I had room for on mine.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

1 hour ago, Aadi880 said:

Also, you are all sleeping on the Gaze chamber. All of you!

Gaze>>>all

For real though, Gaze is dope 🤘

[Skaleek]

The answer to all of you feeling sleighted for investing resources into the catchmoon: Invest resources into every weapon and frame. You will always be on top of the meta. That truly is how i keep my sanity in Warframe. I've got about 110 rivens spread across secondaries, primaries, archguns and melees (less so melees), and every weapon and frame in warframe is owned and fully forma'd (currently working on aura forma for all).

This truly is the only way to be immune to balancing in WF. Get to work, its a long process. Took me about 4 years to do it. Once you're up to date all you need to do is keep up with the latest releases, which isnt too bad actually. Prime access farming is always a drag but it refills my relic supply. Aura forma's are horrendously overpriced to build (4 forma is some BS), but im slowly working on it, i think ive got like 30 BP's now.

Example: I had a tiberon riven before the regular tiberon got reworked... It had damage/crit damage -zoom. Now its a top tier riven for a top tier gun. I said to myself: one day they will make a prime variant with crit and this will be good. It was good, and now its getting nerfed every patch. Stay away from meta investments. Acceltra Rubico Fulmin are all gonna hit the floor, then rebound back when new, better weapons come out.

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

35 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Praise be the Lex Prime.

My only hope is that the pexilus slot has a recoil reducer mod available, that is the one thing I always wish I had room for on mine.

I'm pretty sure I saw stabilizer for rifles as a pexilus mod, and if they didn't make -recoil mods pexilus mods the community would continue to ignore them despite some weapons with -recoil being incredible (soma prime I'm looking at you.)  
 

The writing was on the wall for over half a year with the catchmoon, anyone who used it and modded it correctly with or without riven could see that it was a broken weapon.  Point, shoot at crowd, crowd dies, it sends bolts to other enemies that deal 20K+ in damage apiece.  

[No1NParticular31]

Ok I'll give my 2c from a newer player perspective (160ish days). At MR 17 (mostly from leveling Frames), obviously I haven't tried every weapon in the game but I have tried quite a few. I use the Catchmoon a lot because it's the ONLY secondary that even SEEMS like it can kill as fast as or faster than melee that I have found, and is the only one I have potatoed. 90%+ of the secondaries I have tried have either have slow fire rate, long reloads, and small clips OR fast fire rate, with REALLY low damage, mediocre clip size and long reloads. If I have to dump whole clips into trash mobs to kill them, then stand there taking bullets up the a** for a long reload, that just isn't fun. They really are trash. If the Catchmoon becomes unusable, I probably won't even bother equipping a secondary because melee will be better 100%. Or maybe I will equip a secondary with 0 mods loaded to increase starting energy levels. I certainly will not be using it either way.

As a new player I don't have the funds or resources to potato and forma out every GD thing in the game in the name of experimentation to try and find something fun and viable. That seems to come later when I actually have stuff people want to buy to raise funds to buy stuff with. I literally have potatoes in 3 melee weapons, 3 Primaries and 1 secondary. I won't be wasting more in secondaries until I have a surplus.

I do use Fulmin a lot as Primary, but more in the assault rifle mode. In the shotgun mode, it has too few shots (6 shots) then a long recharge since it still recharges 1 round at a time up to 60 and fires 10 at a time. Now I hear they are looking to nerf this too just because of the shotgun mode? I also have potatoes in the Kohm (talk of it being nerfed too), and a Rubico Prime (too many people use this for Eidolons so they may as well nerf this too.)

Oh and they are nerfing melee as well? The two viable melee tactics are Crit spin to win and CO Status builds, both of which seem to be getting nerfed.

What the hell is left? This feels like being pushed back to square one, since EVERYTHING I have invested in is either getting nerfed OR is in being looked into for nerfs. It must be nice to have played for years and have everything built out to swap around when random nerfs hit, but for new players just getting started now finding out what they did do is getting undone with nothing to back it up, is horrible.

One thing to think about. Every single MMO I have ever played starting with EverQuest back in 1999 (I have played a LOT of them) all had "Best in Slot" items. Every other game didn't decide to nerf these BiS items once everyone got them to keep people chasing the carrot. They released new harder content with new BiS items to raise the bar and keep people chasing the carrot of making their characters stronger. Novel idea huh? Why does DE keep releasing content of the same difficulty that already exists and then nerfing BiS items to get people to keep playing to REGAIN existing power instead of releasing harder content and more powerful items? It's completely ridiculous IMHO. This isn't even about the Catchmoon and nerfs, it's about common sense PROGRESSION that this game sorely lacks. Seriously if you can clear the chart, do Sorties, Arbs, and Eidolons, then what is even the point of trying to gain more power?

IMHO we have worn out the "Origin System" content. After "Old Blood" the next big release should be a whole new System of planets with harder enemies and new stronger gear, weapons, mods, etc. Somehow, my guess is they will just add more of the same content, nerf BiS items from "Old Blood" and expect people to just go get the new stuff for the sake of getting back to where they have already been. I think I may just have to pass.

 

[_Miyagisan_]

This thread is certainly amusing. Please, I require more salt.

[KnossosTNC]

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 hours ago, _Miyagisan_ said:

This thread is certainly amusing. Please, I require more salt.

I come back whenever I’m eating fries 

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

Why not use the sonicor it functions much like the arca plasmor.  Has a good riven disposition is easier to build and actually looks good.

It can be a beastly weapon in its own right.  And it inherently knocks enemies on thier butts with every shot.  Built in cc.

Edited October 30, 2019 by (PS4)Kakurine2

[Xenonthetenno]

10 hours ago, 844448 said:

You need riven for that? My catchmoon doesn't use any riven yet still wiping out high risk index enemies with a few shots.

Besides, it's just some reduction in range, it's not like they reduce the base damage or something else

Perhaps you want to try my Plasma Cutter catchmoon combination and build?

Catchmoon has falloff, so basically, range nerf leads to dmg nerf too

Yes it still will be good if you're looking for zero range shooter like bronko prime, but if you want something for arbitration drones, you better find a new gun

[PR1D3]

On 2019-10-30 at 8:21 AM, Rahlence said:

Awww, somebody is upset their crutchmoon is getting nerfed.  They need a hug.

 

Oh god that's actually pretty good! Crutchmoon, man. I'm stealing this. Remember kids, the more crutches you have the hard you'll hit the ground when they're eventually kicked from under you.

On 2019-10-30 at 1:37 PM, Skaleek said:

The answer to all of you feeling sleighted for investing resources into the catchmoon: Invest resources into every weapon and frame. You will always be on top of the meta. That truly is how i keep my sanity in Warframe. I've got about 110 rivens spread across secondaries, primaries, archguns and melees (less so melees), and every weapon and frame in warframe is owned and fully forma'd (currently working on aura forma for all).

This truly is the only way to be immune to balancing in WF. Get to work, its a long process. Took me about 4 years to do it. Once you're up to date all you need to do is keep up with the latest releases, which isnt too bad actually. Prime access farming is always a drag but it refills my relic supply. Aura forma's are horrendously overpriced to build (4 forma is some BS), but im slowly working on it, i think ive got like 30 BP's now.

Example: I had a tiberon riven before the regular tiberon got reworked... It had damage/crit damage -zoom. Now its a top tier riven for a top tier gun. I said to myself: one day they will make a prime variant with crit and this will be good. It was good, and now its getting nerfed every patch. Stay away from meta investments. Acceltra Rubico Fulmin are all gonna hit the floor, then rebound back when new, better weapons come out.

And this is the realest post on here. This is the philosophy I've had for years. I did the same thing with the Tiberon too. I had gotten my riven pre Prime for 50 plt. I love my burst fires and it was no exception. I have stockpiles of rivens for non popular weapons I like. Before the recent changes while people were lining up to give BJs to the Lens I was a Daikyu believer since it's launch. I have the conclave skin for it for gods sake. You can break your neck trying to get a riven for the Opticor, Fulmin, Acceletra, or what have you, meanwhile the 2 rivens each I have for the Seer and Kraken? Well Old Blood is about to be a little bit more interesting for me now. And watch. When Ivara Prime comes out, oh man. Would it be the greatest coincidence that Archer Prime brings the last Prime Bow?