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Xaku's survivability depending of evasion stat is clearly something that a lot of people find useless and too dangerous.
But the only suggestion to replace that, is pure damage resistance..
I think both are wrong ideas for Xaku.
The evasion stat, is not 100% logic with the theme.
Baruuk can "ignore matter", Nyx perturbs enemy mind..
But projectiles go through Xaku without hitting them...
Seems highly improbable and unrealistic to me, and in the context of Warframe, it is quite something.
I think Xaku needs a better way to survive, one that is really customed to them.

Here are some improvised ideas:
1) Xata's whisper could give a temporary damage reduction, linked to the void damage we are doing during it's time.
2) Vast untime, could generate an aura of slow time.
Projectiles would be slowed at a safe distance, and enemies would be slowed at very short distance.
3) The passive could be entirely changed to something similar to Inaros.
Xaku would be broken on the floor, capable of regenerate themself by absorbing enemies we'll pull to us like Hydroid in his puddle.
The operator could exit Xaku to kill enemies near them, and the corpses would be immediately used for Xaku. (Only one chance for the operator)

1) Seems too simple, 2) could feel like an obligation to always be in skeleton form, and 3) would require new work in animations and effects.. but it's my favorite ^^
And the three aren't simple tweaks.. It's the community warframe, power and passive have already been voted on.. I know..
But really I just feel sad Xaku has only "evasion" to survive.
Evasion, and "kill before the enemy sees you".

Edited by Azvalk
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On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Including AOE damage reduction as part of Xaku’s Passive. 

Ok. That's nice but we need more or something else. 

Quote
  Cumulative probability 1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y )
  Hit chance (0.0 < x < 1.0): 0,25
     
enemy number probability of enemy hits you  
1 0,25  
2 0,4375  
3 0,578125  
4 0,68359375  
5 0,7626953125  
6 0,8220214844  
7 0,8665161133  
8 0,899887085  
9 0,9249153137  
10 0,9436864853  
11 0,957764864  
12 0,968323648  
13 0,976242736  
14 0,982182052  
15 0,986636539  
16 0,9899774042  
17 0,9924830532  
18 0,9943622899  
19 0,9957717174  
20 0,9968287881  

So after 9 enemies that tries to hits you at least will succeed with 90% chance. With strong enemies and 10+ enemies (which is not unusual) someone will kill you.

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies

Well, buff is nice.... some people need it (I like to stay "neutral").

Still chance is based on weapon (somehow bad) and not visible bubble because it doesn't take energy color (super annoying).

 

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Allowing Grasp of Lohk to be recast. 

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:
  • Increasing the speed at which enemies are disarmed so that it occurs earlier in the casting animation. Also increasing the casting animation speed overall. 

This will make disarming much easier. If the speed is very fast then you don't "need" big range. Go to group of enemies, steal guns, repeat.

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:
  • How it will work: Any existing Grasp of Lohk weapons will simply be replaced by the new cast up to the maximum amount of targets.

If this is gonna replace more with less weapons (for example, you have 5 weapons, you activate the ability, you now have 2) then it will make the ability slower.

To make the usage of it fast make it at least 2 things:
- always steal weapons (disarming when applicable)
- always reset the duration of the ability
- Grasp of Lohk weapons should be replaced only if they are fewer than the weapons that are currently stolen (so you cannot replace 5 weapons with 4)
 

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Increasing the casting speed of Deny. 

Good.

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Adding synergy between Deny and Grasp of Lohk that increases Deny’s damage output.

  • How it will work: The number of weapons orbiting Xaku from Grasp of Lohk act as a damage multiplier for Deny’s Void beam. For example: If you have 4 weapons orbiting Xaku, Deny’s damage will be granted a 5x multiplier. 

Well... that's expected. People want more damage and just kill things. I'm not one of those people. Sadly no "enemy suspended in the air" thing.

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Removing the Energy drain and keeping it a duration based ability. 

That's ok however we still:
- cannot see affected enemies
- need to be recast because you want more enemies to be affected and you don't even see them
- I don't see any change in their speed at base

 

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Adding Synergy between The Vast Untime and all of Xaku’s other abilities. 

  • How it will work: Emphasis on “Untime”, when Xaku is in their skeletal form their other active abilities’ duration will become frozen in time. Once The Vast Untime expires, the duration of those active abilities resume.

I think someone posted it in the Protea thread. She would get more benefits from this, in my opinion.
Not sure if this "frozen in time" is needed.
- ability 1 -> high duration & low cost makes it easily recastable
- ability 2 -> might use it while moving from different group of enemies; otherwise, in my opinion, the ability wants you to recast it to disarm enemies. It doesn't need duration but low energy cost & high cast speed.
- ability 3 -> only Gaze would benefit from it; Deny doesn't need duration; Accuse might need it... but you kill enemies faster than your timer, hence not needed.
 

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:
  • Note: This will not apply to Helminth abilities and abilities from other Warframes from Helminth subsuming. 

That's sad. When I read that I thought about endlessly use Revenant's Reave. I could have so much fun.

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing The Vast Untime:

Still no movement speed boost & higher starting slow effect (25% is not visible, let's at least start at 50%). After it deals some damage we don't see any change.
We can have duration on what? Enemies might be already death. Aura around player would be nice.

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On 2020-09-11 at 4:02 AM, ABlindGuyPlays said:

Then they shouldn't have amde the VOID DAMAGE GRANTING ABILITY the thing it gives to helmenth. If they aren't going to give the VOID DAMAGE ability the ability to deal with eidolon shields, or amalgams, etc? Why have it be void damage? Pull a revenant and have it be adaptive damage. There you go PROBLEM SOLVED THANK YOU DE PAY ME.

Well, it’s still “supposed” to be balanced. It seems they gave Xata’s Whisper to Helminth because they have the interest to make Xaku be the “Warframe that gives it’s Void gift to others”. That’s why the percentage of the Void damage boost is smaller than others. Because they know that people won’t use Xaku (that much) against Eidolons, they will face Eidolons with a Prime Chroma holding a Prime Rubico (both 6-forma’d), filled to the brink with Maxed Primed Mods and a Vex Armor capable of raising damage to the millions.

They are (doing their best and sometimes failing about) thinking on the long run and the big picture about players trying desperately to break one of the last things in the game that are truly hard (and unique, that’s important, as you all remember Steel’s Path): Eidolons. However, since it is in our interest to make Xaku have power, and theirs is to make Xaku have power within reason, we will invariably butt heads. I do still think they should make Void damage affect Eidolons and Amalgams, since players probably spent years being told about Void damage being the weakness of Sentient enemies only to be nope’d right at their faces. If they think that will be too strong against them, then half the percentage dealt against Eidolons and Amalgams, from 26%, to 13% of Xata’s Whisper, while keeping Operator’s Amp’s be the main players on damage dealing against Eidolons.

Of course, unfortunately, Amps… do leave something to be desired somewhat. Even the ones made by Onkko Quill have not a particularly steady performance. (Making Onkko sell daily specials would help against the problem a bit) I think they should implement some unique list of mods for Amps, since the Arcane Enhancements on Amps seem to be focused on supporting and complementing the survival ability of Operators, instead of bettering the damage, fire rate, percentage of void damage, percentage of status effect and more strategic stats. Alas, we are talking about Xaku.

I do still think Evasion, much like the Void proc ailment, should have something added to it by the developers to make it distinguishable (and its own flavor of useful), instead of just being erased in favor of Damage Reduction. Like in a previous post of mine, making each evaded attack add up to a buff in shape of a timer that has it’s seconds “consumed” (say, 7 to 10) when you get hit by lethal (and capping the maximum duration of that timer to 30 secs or so) damage would make people value it’s “soft” guarantee of invulnerability in favour of the invariable slowing down of your demise by Damage Reduction. The developers do seem to want to keep evasion as a live factor within the game, and I don’t see a problem with that, but they have to give Evasion some differential if they want to make players see it with good (or tolerable) eyes.

Whatever they do to the Void proc ailment, it probably is recommended to take into consideration that it should help the viability of the Operator mode. A unique proc where it could grant energy regeneration per hit (sans eidolons) against the player (at the rate of 1 energy per level of proc, up to 10 energy per hit against the player) would make the element very appealing to players, and make them like the element since it gives an universal boon that is very rare and very precious. But they can see my suggestions in my previous posts if they wish.

In a last note, I am also on the bandwagon of making Grasp of Lohk range bigger, after some testing did reveal it to be somewhat short against dealing with opponents. After all, armed enemies in general run away from you to shoot you, so you tend to get less weapons in a pinch.

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Yonesis, I like the concept of evasion...my only tweak is that maybe it builds up either more evasion, or maybe something like adaptation where you build up damage resistance with every shot dodged....but keep it capped within reason...like the 75% evasion is also 75% damage resistance after build up

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Good changes, but still not enough. Some feedback to consider.

Grasp of Lohk

  • Base range increased from 8 to 12 meters.
  • Duration is doubled from 12 to 24 seconds.
  • The spectral guns should be more aggressive.

The Lost :

1. The Lost : Deny.

  • Change the straight line energy beam to a cone. Straight line beam attack does not do well in a horde shooter like Warframe. There is a reason why I swapped out Sol Gate for something else.

2. The Lost : Accuse.

  • Can you please not let allies kill the converted targets? This ability suffers like enthrall. Everytime I convert them my trigger happy teammates annihilate them instantly.
  • Duration should be doubled from 12 to 24 seconds

3. The Lost : Gaze 

  • Effect radius should be 25 meters base. 
  • Enemies entering it should be slowed by 20% base.
  • Duration increased from 14 to 24 seconds.

With these changes to The Lost the effects are strong enough to justify the hefty 75 energy cost.

 

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2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Can you please not let allies kill the converted targets? This ability suffers like enthrall. Everytime I convert them my trigger happy teammates annihilate them instantly.

But Enthralled enemies live you something upon death.... maybe Xaku can do the same? Maybe it can convert other enemies?

 

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:
  •  
  • Duration increased from 14 to 24 seconds.

The specifically made his 4th freeze time to add duration... not gonna happen.

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For round 2, take a look at Xata's Whisper to make it more, interesting? It's one of the more uninspired abilities to come out with recent frames, no offense to the players who suggested it.

Some more interactions/synergies within Xaku's kit and something useful outside of it (e.g. more casting speed to allies within Affinity Range ala Accelerant)

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3 hours ago, quxier said:

The specifically made his 4th freeze time to add duration... not gonna happen.

What about Helminth builds that replaces Vast Untime? An ability should not be 100% dependant to other abilities. Who thought that 14 seconds for an ability that cost 75 energy was a good idea? Vex Armor, Chaos, Roar, Breach Surge, and other 75 energy cost abilities has a much longer duration that this and in Xaku’s case you are supposed to spam it.

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2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:
5 hours ago, quxier said:

 

What about Helminth builds that replaces Vast Untime? An ability should not be 100% dependant to other abilities. Who thought that 14 seconds for an ability that cost 75 energy was a good idea? Vex Armor, Chaos, Roar, Breach Surge, and other 75 energy cost abilities has a much longer duration that this and in Xaku’s case you are supposed to spam it.

Only 2 abilities need more duration: Gaze & Accuse. Their 1st has enough duration (and is recast-able), their 2nd should be spam-able as well.
But I'm saying that they just make 4th freeze time so people would use it. Protea could use it... back to the topic. If they add duration to those abilities then "freeze time" would be useless, hence they won't change it.

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Vast untime should freeze buffs like arcanes, set procs, kavaats buffs, ...

At 5 forma, currently Xaku is not unplayable in SP but is not good either.

Edited by Galuf
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1 hour ago, Galuf said:

Vast untime should freeze buffs like arcanes, set procs, kavaats buffs, ...

If it was the case, then it would be GREAT.... but seeing that Protea set all things (buff included) to previous state I won't see this coming. Sadly.

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il y a 58 minutes, quxier a dit :

If it was the case, then it would be GREAT.... but seeing that Protea set all things (buff included) to previous state I won't see this coming. Sadly.

It would even make more sense as she goes back in time and he freezes it.

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On 2020-09-10 at 11:42 AM, Pandabarrel said:

These look promising, but Xata's Whisper still looks too weak. A 26% dmg buff is basically a free Helminth slot. Smite Infusion gets 100%, why not the same for Xata's Whisper. I don't see how this could be an issue when we can't use it on Eidolons.

Comparing Apples to Oranges there. Smite Infusion makes you able to make your allies stronger at the cost of weakening yourself with the loss of a mod slot. Xata's Whisper is a net personal increase in power with a specific elemental damage type that does not require a mod slot and has similar numbers to the only other ability to do this in the game, Toxic Lash. Slightly lower because Void is going to become a completely unresisted damage type with this update. Though the proc is crap so it probably needs to either have the proc changed or a bonus effect to really bring it on par with Toxic Lash.

Edited by Ceryk
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4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Remember Titania? Remember when DE only gave her evasion chance to survive and she sucked?

Remember when they added DR to her and it made her significantly better?

How is it that they learned a lesson only to make the exact same mistake again?

^^ exactly this...

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10 minutes ago, Ceryk said:

Comparing Apples to Oranges there. Smite Infusion makes you able to make your allies stronger at the cost of weakening yourself with the loss of a mod slot. Xata's Whisper is a net personal increase in power that does not require a mod slot and has similar numbers to the only other ability to do this in the game, Toxic Lash. Slightly lower because Void is going to become a completely unresisted damage type with this update. Though the proc is crap so it probably needs to either have the proc changed or a bonus effect to really bring it on par with Toxic Lash.

Notice how Smite also doubles as a solid nuke on top of being able to buff damage at the cost of a mod slot.

 

 

Xata's Whisper is "make gun shoot harder". That's "super jump"-levels of pathetic. Not an ability I'd expect DE to make in 2020. In fact I expected much more from them regarding 3/4 of her kit. Generic damage buff to her gun, generic speed/evasion buff while amplifying damage, 3 random arbitrary abilities. Literally none of her kit relates to the theme of being a broken frame brought back together. None of her abilities capitalizes on her ability to take herself apart. Just an uninspired kit overall.

 

 

Worst part is people mistake that as her being underpowered and thinks buffing her will solve "generic"

Edited by (PS4)GingyGreen
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47 minutes ago, Galuf said:

It would even make more sense as she goes back in time and he freezes it.

In my opinion she manipulates time (like Limbo manipulates "space") but she would be hard to implement and she could be too powerful. Hence, they give her "pseudo time rewind". Her whole quest is about it.
Xaku, on other hand, is about the void and a multi-frame aspect.

20 minutes ago, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

Xata's Whisper is "make gun shoot harder".

From what I see lot of people just expect it make more damage... so blame gamers as well.
However, Xata's Whisper is not only buff... its proc makes you pretty capable defender (not all faction types I guess). If none shoots you you are safe from a lot of damage.
 

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Been playing Xaku a little more lately. The changes are not live at this time. The following are major nitpicks, and are really just fine-tuning my critique.

The passive just doesn't work. Your base health pool is so low that every roughly one in four shots doing nothing to you isn't causing any tangible difference in your pitiful health pool. Level 30 enemies on Fortuna are hitting me for like half of my health with their pea shooters, so I'm really having to up my movement game. With Vast Untime up, I'm still taking a ton of damage. I wouldn't say adding flat damage resistance would be a good solution. I would argue this would be fine if it wasn't for 291 base health at lv30. I also make the argument that health and shield mods should multiply final health and shield levels, not level 1 values, but that's a topic for another time. Perhaps having more health alone would really boost the effectiveness, but overall this is literally just random and not a reliable means of damage mitigation.

Grasp of Lohk really needs that casting speed increase. The total cast time of this, and then the activation time, leads to three seconds of you only able to move. It really needs to be AoE around your cursor to fully get what it needs to work well. If it gets that change, it needs no change to range. Otherwise, it needs to be buffed numerically. The guns really fall off at level 20, to boot. Basing stolen gun count on range feels really odd. I really think limiting that when Loki doesn't have such a limitation is strange, but I can see why you would want to. I stand by my statement that your mods should affect damage on matching weapon types if you're going to limit our gun count. Void projectiles would get melee mods, not having a matching weapon slot equipped means you get no bonus. Womp-womp.

Xata's Whisper could stand to be a one-handed animation, like Toxic Lash. Not vital, but would be nice.

Gaze takes too long to deploy, and often by the time the tendrils even appear, the enemy is long dead, and I'm standing still. We'll have to see what round 2 brings, and yeah, I'll be hanging out in that post, too. Bring some chips, Danielle. :) GoL needs to ignore targets of this ability, because they current glue to them and it's very annoying.

Accuse is too random to be useful in my experience, and other than some minor chaos, this is not exactly a good ability no matter how you slice it. I'm really curious what edge cases you're seeing, because outside of pulling some aggro, there are almost no uses to use this in a squad. Even worse is that GoL guns won't target them, even if there are no targets. I do not see the point of an AoE mind control, and would rather prefer this be an AoE radiation proc. It would lead to the same function, but just be far more useful.

Deny will be better with the changes listed, but it's still just going to be "shoot beam for damage." I really hope that this could be changed to a wave that increases in angle with more Lohk guns. Also, 5 guns seems a little low for for a boost cap on Deny when you can grab 12 with 20% power strength, but again, need to do some testing.

Vast Untime's "release" has kind of an awkward step forward after a long break apart animation. I don't like it.

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Love all the changes. But still needs increase range on his 2nd and 3rd.

Also please do something about his appearance when he uses his 4th. He's too good looking to spend most of the time looking like that.

I would suggest making his parts move everytime he dodges a hit. 

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I made an attempt at a video to go over some ideas I had along with my response to the upcoming changes

Spoiler

 

1. I worry that Xaku's kit is getting cluttered up

2. Void status HAS to be reworked (it literally drops your damage due to no headshots)

3. Grasp of Lohk needs more range. it feels like a melee skill, and Xaku doesn't want to be in melee range

4. Despite being on the same ability button, The Lost has NO cohesion whatsoever between the 3 abilities. 

5. I feel like The Vast Untime has potential to be really good and cool, but certain parts just aren't hooked up the right way. Plus, I came up with a cool idea to pick up individual parts of Xaku's broken self to add damage reduction

6. In general, Xaku needs a Niche, a role. He provides nothing to a team. I want to push him towards a powerful debuffer role.

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On 2020-09-11 at 12:00 AM, [DE]Danielle said:

We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies - a long desired request for Void damage.

Nice. Then there shall be no few stubborn survivors left around Obelisks :3

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