why are most people against pvp being in Warframe?

[VenTheWeeb]

it seems like a lot of people don't want Conclave to improve and/or just want it removed from the game completely. like I get that pvp games always have more toxic players but pve games can have them so Warframe already has those players like sure you can argue that it will get worse because somehow improved conclave = attracting more of these players but is that really gonna ruin your experience like you can just mute them. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

I just want that conclave console on my orbiter to go away, you enter the game and it's there staring at you. I had to cover it with a Teshin statue

[Hearsay]

Because very few people who play Warframe enjoy PvP.  And considering that PvP takes a lot of constant care and attention it is seen as taking resources that could have been directed towards working on parts of the game most people care about.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

People can't even handle fighting the enemy AI....they had to be nerfed. They couldn't handle getting killed by a lich.....how're they gonna handle getting beat up repeatedly by some premade group full of trinities, wukongs, and nidus'?

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

It doesn't work very well for the game. So players tend to not do it.

[trst]

It's not toxic players (unless people call "meta" toxic which is extremely ironic) but the barriers of entry that players don't want to cross. Both the learning curve and the player-made unpopularity of the mode made it hard, but far from impossible, to get into.

Though none of that is accounting for the players that want to see the mode burn just because they either hate PvP or refuse to cross the hurdles to enter. While thinking it's some massive waste of dev resources when it isn't getting dev attention in the first place and/or they want the skins from the shop and refuse to play the mode for them.

But really the players that have long since made up their minds on conclave likely won't ever be swayed by improvements to the system. Either from a dislike of PvP to begin with or from good old stubbornness.

[PublikDomain]

Partly because it's become a meme/self-fulfilling prophecy. If enough people say "Conclave bad" then other people will repeat the meme, even if they've never tried it, and the meme becomes reality.

The other part is that Conclave is actually bad and few people like it. But it's not because PvP as a concept is bad, it's because DE's implementation is shallow and half-hearted. And with enough people repeating "Conclave bad", DE doesn't have a reason to give it any attention and make it not bad.

[Duality52]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They couldn't handle getting killed by a lich

Only problem is that players were dying to a slot machine/dice roll. That is outside of the player's control, especially since the Lich got downed. If the Lich did down a Tenno, then it's fair game.

On topic, but the Conclave is undoubtedly more toxic than anywhere else in the game so far. The gameplay in Conclave is binary: either you get streamrolled or you streamroll everyone else. Additionally, one particular player decided that Universal Medallions should not apply to the Conclave. That "decision" did more harm than good.

[JackHargreav]

Because it #*!%ing sucks.

It's that plain simple. If you want pvp to actually be playable you really have to restrict what the player can do including parkour.

I had fights in pvp where we were just jumping around non stop until finally one of us got killed. And this went on for almost two minutes.

But the entire point is to be this badass unstoppable space ninja but sometimes pirate and other times dragon or whatever warrior. Which is not what you are in pvp.

Also the game is focused heavily on pve.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

The game wasn't intended for PVP from the ground up. The speed and movements you can pull off make that fact even more apparent. It's just not going to happen.

[trst]

3 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

Additionally, one particular player decided that Universal Medallions should not apply to the Conclave. That "decision" did more harm than good.

I'm inclined to think the opposite. If they did allow them to be used then people would be off farming a 5% C rotation drop in Disruptions. Of which for those who refused to touch Conclave at all would need 240 of these to reach rank 5 followed by 50 per skin and 30/100 per armor piece.

I guarantee all the complaints seen about the medallions not applying to Conclave are a slight fraction of the complaints we'd have seen from people forcing themselves through such a grind.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Because Conclave is poorly balanced and Warframe overall is not really designed for PvP.

Trying to cater to the PvP crowd doesn’t mean much if the thing that’s catered to them isn’t good enough.

[vanaukas]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

People can't even handle fighting the enemy AI....they had to be nerfed. They couldn't handle getting killed by a lich.....how're they gonna handle getting beat up repeatedly by some premade group full of trinities, wukongs, and nidus'?

Preach it.

Dog days showed this with the ONLY quick enemy (Garesh IIRC)

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

7 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

Only problem is that players were dying to a slot machine/dice roll. That is outside of the player's control, especially since the Lich got downed. If the Lich did down a Tenno, then it's fair game.

On topic, but the Conclave is undoubtedly more toxic than anywhere else in the game so far. The gameplay in Conclave is binary: either you get streamrolled or you streamroll everyone else. Additionally, one particular player decided that Universal Medallions should not apply to the Conclave. That "decision" did more harm than good.

The other only problem is that dying hurts people's feelings. That was what other players have said in response to liches. A guy literally said players in general shouldn't have to die because it makes them feel bad and the point of the game was to have fun.

In PvP, players will die to the slot machine and dice roll of random matchmaking. They'll get embarrassed or hurt and stop playing, because DE can't program the deaths out to make them feel better.

[Lored]

Conclave is an example of a failed attempt to introduce PVP into a PVE-focused game.

- Disgusting balance

- Deliberately slowed Standing farm

- Boring game mods

- Meager rewards for each match

- Unpopular

- Abandoned by devs

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, trst said:

I'm inclined to think the opposite. If they did allow them to be used then people would be off farming a 5% C rotation drop in Disruptions. Of which for those who refused to touch Conclave at all would need 240 of these to reach rank 5 followed by 50 per skin and 30/100 per armor piece.

I guarantee all the complaints seen about the medallions not applying to Conclave are a slight fraction of the complaints we'd have seen from people forcing themselves through such a grind.

And then DE could have fixed up the drop rates of universal medallions which would have given people something to do. Instead, the drop rates remain abysmal and no one grinds them because the one interesting use of that item was removed to placate a Tempest.

[Aldain]

17 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

Only problem is that players were dying to a slot machine/dice roll. That is outside of the player's control, especially since the Lich got downed. If the Lich did down a Tenno, then it's fair game.

Amen.

It is quite amazing how many people still purposely miss the problem people had with the Lich Backbreaker to this day even after it was removed.

On-topic: PvP isn't a problem per-say, the issue is that people actually don't understand just how niche "high execution" type PvP games are, GunZ for example is INSANELY niche, a dedicated playerbase to be sure, but that doesn't make it not niche.

You're not going to get new players into a game where they will be nothing but cannon fodder for hours and hours with no chance of getting better because of the small playerbase, and it is evident by how many times in such games people say nothing but "git gud" when they try to get help understanding things.

Most people don't want to just be cannon fodder to the 1%, so they just don't bother in the first place.

[Corvid]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The other only problem is that dying hurts people's feelings. That was what other players have said in response to liches. A guy literally said players in general shouldn't have to die because it makes them feel bad and the point of the game was to have fun.

Gonna need a citation on that.

I was paying very close attention to that particular subject, and the overwhelming majority of complaints were about the dice roll aspect. Even if there were people who objected to dying in general, you are being extremely disingenuous by presenting them as though they constituted anything more than a minute portion of the backlash.

[Sevek7]

There are a lot of answers here, with varied and interesting points about Warframe being "unsuited" for PvP for a number reason. Typically a combination of "Too fast, unbalanced, players don't like losing / challenge, etc..." These points all have some merit, but I think we're skipping over something obvious.

I think the actual answer is much more simple. Warframe's community at one point had a community around PvE and PvP. DE neglected the PvP side, so the PvP community moved on to other games. So the remaining community are PvE players who don't like PvP. Therefore, Warframe's current community are against PvP in Warframe.

I really do think it's that simple.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The other only problem is that dying hurts people's feelings. That was what other players have said in response to liches. A guy literally said players in general shouldn't have to die because it makes them feel bad and the point of the game was to have fun.

I miss the death animation, it felt as if something out there could actually beat us. I only discovered people hated dying to them on the forum, in game no one I met cared

[3rdpig]

I rarely play PvP and TBH I don't care about it as long as it doesn't affect the PvE game negatively. Unfortunately, it almost always does. The PvP community in every game I've played where there was one was vocal, toxic and was filled with other problems the community team had to constantly stay on top of to prevent it from devolving into a small crew of "elites" who drove everyone else away with their behavior. Also, the PvP players demanded and got nerfs that also applied to PvE and were never, ever satisfied, it was always "nerf this" or "nerf that". Some of that was the dev's fault for not properly figuring out how to nerf stuff for PvP without it applying to PvP. I've been in more than one game where it was removed entirely because the mental midgets who inhabited it weren't capable of socializing with other people without needing a cocktail of psychotropic meds beforehand.

[TARINunit9]

41 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They couldn't handle getting killed by a lich

It was a STUPID MECHANIC. Death is a consequence of failure, liches turned it into a consequence of SUCCESS. You accuse us of sucking so much, would you accept this in Dark Souls? Knocking a boss's health bar down to zero then getting killed by a dice roll?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, (NSW)VenTheWeeb said:

it seems like a lot of people don't want Conclave to improve and/or just want it removed from the game completely. like I get that pvp games always have more toxic players but pve games can have them so Warframe already has those players like sure you can argue that it will get worse because somehow improved conclave = attracting more of these players but is that really gonna ruin your experience like you can just mute them. 

Probably for the same reason some people just don't like Chocolate ice cream, "it's just not their thing". It's not really something that you can force on someone, and given the large number of games which do contain PVP, they've chosen Warframe's PVE. 

Had it seen a large amount of popularity, you could probably expect a healthy playerbase, constant improments, and updates. That seems to not be the case here. 🤷‍♂️

[Corvid]

32 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

Warframe's community at one point had a community around PvE and PvP.

Having been here from pretty much the start, I can tell you that this was not the case. Warframe's community was always primarily focused on PvE, with only a small but vocal portion asking for PvP. When PvP was added (and later on expanded into today's Conclave) it was only ever a niche among the playerbase that played it.

DE neglected PvP because players weren't interested, not the other way around.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Cause with how warframeis designed and plays its not suitable for pvp the game has and will always be a pve game. And most people see possible work for conclave as wasted development time that can go towards things the playerbase actually wants as reviving a mode that no one plays is waste when we could get improvement and fixes and the content that people came for