Teshin Gameplay is how Warframe Gameplay supposed to be.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2021-07-18 at 2:27 AM, 0_The_F00l said:

Cool as the gameplay was with actual gameplay and not just button mashing at mach 3 speeds ,

it would not be to everyone's liking , this feels more like a spin-off game by itself (like a DLC if that can be applied to live action games) that I personally would enjoy.

It really did look engaging and much more impactful too. I wish we get regular missions where we can play as any of these characters when we want to.

This DE’s response to the player base saying how important Story and cinematic are; campaign story elements that still require gameplay and thus count as content.

A friend came in the room after 4 years and saw it and couldn’t believe how far the game had come.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

13 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

The AI can't do anything when we're blazing through maps like rockets and wipe everything in 50 meters around us though, so it makes sense

10 minutes ago, dodyouserious said:

after watching that i realized how op warframes are and how grounded our enemies are, were like a god or hacker to them lol

And go figure, that's exactly why people enjoy playing this game.

Like I said before, if you want something slower, grounded and boring. Go play any other shooter on the market.

[(NSW)Greybones]

12 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

And go figure, that's exactly why people enjoy playing this game.

You'll need to be careful speaking for others

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

5 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You'll need to be careful speaking for others

Try telling that to the rest of the people in this thread.

[Redthirst]

55 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

The only real issue is the braindead AI which are as stupid as posts like the one the OP made.

The good-old "don't balance the game, just improve the AI" argument. As if better AI would change anything in game where you can kill an entire room of enemies with a single button.

[Dreddgrave]

22 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

~All That~

Do you think I willingly put 4.5 thousand hours into this game by only going through Mastery fodder? I use the weapons I enjoy, I scrap the ones I don't. Not even taking into consideration that I changed my display name this year and my stats might be broken, like how my forum account reset...

A power fantasy is one thing. Having most of the game play like you're using Rise of the Triad's God Mode power-up complete with yawning sound effect is another.

Y e s. They do. In comparison to tanks, sure you can bring widdle baby Mirage along, just don't bump into her too hard or she'll shatter into millions of pieces of shiny technocyte. I guess you could be invisible too but that's not going to be much comfort to the paper mache pod you're supposed to be protecting. Nobody else brought a Frost or Gara because this is a pub and everyone wants to be Mesa. I guess that'll work but oops, all the gameplay got auto-shot into oblivion. Or Disco Balled, or Cysted or Bled dry.

I would love if Vex Armor got nerfed, then DE might buff Chroma's 1 or 4 into something useful!

Banshee might be able to stub her toe without collapsing if Sonar didn't stack.

Etcetera and etcetera. Why have these severely over-tuned damage buffs instead of, God forbid, balanced damage with the buffs being a bonus.

Instead of needing 900k Iron Skin stacks on Rhino or 3k armor x 2 and status immunity on Inaros enemies just don't pile on damage like mayo in a southwestern salad?

Funny how tanks have the easiest free access to energy out of pretty much every method. One mod, maybe two if you're impatient and the energy bar becomes actually redundant. Lavos would have been fine with energy because the tubby chud has a heal on his 1. Maybe everyone should have cooldown based infinite abilities.

What veteran players have been asking for has been pretty clear from the start if you think about it. Something fun. ESO wasn't fun because it was too demanding to allow everyone to just let the waves come so it got optimized. That and overtuned nukers, the absurd XP gain and the forced cooldown on anything spammable kind forced the meta, didn't it? Now it's just used to speed level weapons, can't even do frames cause they have to be 30 already...

Did you know Eidolon hunts were supposed to replace raids? It's funny because everybody hated the idea! Huge annoying bullet sponges that dropped random bloody arcanes that you need stacks of to get any meaningful benefit from. At least the Orb Mothers have two fights so far instead of one repeated three times a night.

Arbitraries! Drones turns off powers and random Warframes and weapons have 300% more strength, regardless of if you have them or if Power Strength is a relevant stat for the frame! I seriously don't see the appeal in these, you at best pray for an endless mission and just grind Arbi Bux for prizes that'd make an arcade sticky-hand appealing.

Railjack. Launched as a frustrating, broken boring mess. Now it's just an easy, boring light spill. Speaking of Railjack and touching on grinding, look up the drop table for the Ambassador. Sexy rifles, not even gonna try for it. I have some dignity.

And now, seriously grinding! You grind in other games to get fun stuff. In Warframe you grind so you can grind so you can wait so you can grind. None of the grinding activities are fun and there are no fun activities to use your grinded stuff. The best end game we have is hitting MR 30 so you can drop boosters in relays so other people can make it up this chasm a little faster than you did.

and do you really wanna do that for Lenny Loki, that 12 squeaker who was peeing himself laughing while he Switch-TP'd you into a pit or behind the outhouse over and over again.

Do you play Conclave? Do you play Crucible? Which one had people in it?

Lunaru? Gambit?

Case: Rested.

By design MMO-esque public events are social gatherings. People gather around, show-boat a little chat here or there and generally it's an inoffensive good time. Warframe has... Missions. That it, really. The closest thing Warframe players have to social gatherings is when Baro's in town. Otherwise it's just deathly silent matchmaking screens before you see at most three other people at a time. It's confessionals, everyone's too focused on the task at hand and are too tense to really open up outside of necessity.

Also Destiny or Elder Scrolls public events are bite-sized and spread out instead of a two-day to week-long constant grind-fest.

Dismantling is great, ESO does it too. If I could actually use all the credits/endo I got from weapon parts/mods/ayatans/frames I might not complain. Like, I'd almost prefer getting the some of the materials back instead of just credits for a lot of things because credits are uselessly easy to get elsewhere and have like two use factors.

I can't see the bloody things half the time, I can't see what I'm aim AT the other half and most of them have the sound and physical effect of a spitball. Even if something like the Corinth Prime sounds like God slamming a car door, compared to my Strun Wraith I'm kicking pebbles.

Champions pretty much go back to normal and you'd ideally have two other people with you when you encounter one. Also Champions don't have giant bubbles, pulsing, beeping or otherwise, that stop you from functioning near them. Neither do Psions or Dregs.

Destiny, Borderlands, ESO, most games really, have a baseline difficulty that keeps you awake at the wheel. Warframe has an AFK timer that lasts a minute and disable mission rewards. The other games are usually capable of killing you in that amount of time unless you're in a safe zone. The kind of place that is gated off from the missions in Warframe.

Yes, everything does need to be nerfed. Let's start at Zero and work our way up from there because it's obvious from the past half-decade of floundering that patching what we've got isn't working.

Warframe's the only game of it's kind... to have these problems. No other co-op game do you just forego teammates and probably be better off. At least then you can have some action without resorting to auto-pilot. Most games of it's kind respect you enough to not need auto-pilot.

[(PSN)max141064]

6 minutes ago, Dreddgrave said:

Do you think I willingly put 4.5 thousand hours into this game by only going through Mastery fodder? I use the weapons I enjoy, I scrap the ones I don't. Not even taking into consideration that I changed my display name this year and my stats might be broken, like how my forum account reset...

A power fantasy is one thing. Having most of the game play like you're using Rise of the Triad's God Mode power-up complete with yawning sound effect is another.

Y e s. They do. In comparison to tanks, sure you can bring widdle baby Mirage along, just don't bump into her too hard or she'll shatter into millions of pieces of shiny technocyte. I guess you could be invisible too but that's not going to be much comfort to the paper mache pod you're supposed to be protecting. Nobody else brought a Frost or Gara because this is a pub and everyone wants to be Mesa. I guess that'll work but oops, all the gameplay got auto-shot into oblivion. Or Disco Balled, or Cysted or Bled dry.

I would love if Vex Armor got nerfed, then DE might buff Chroma's 1 or 4 into something useful!

Banshee might be able to stub her toe without collapsing if Sonar didn't stack.

Etcetera and etcetera. Why have these severely over-tuned damage buffs instead of, God forbid, balanced damage with the buffs being a bonus.

Instead of needing 900k Iron Skin stacks on Rhino or 3k armor x 2 and status immunity on Inaros enemies just don't pile on damage like mayo in a southwestern salad?

Funny how tanks have the easiest free access to energy out of pretty much every method. One mod, maybe two if you're impatient and the energy bar becomes actually redundant. Lavos would have been fine with energy because the tubby chud has a heal on his 1. Maybe everyone should have cooldown based infinite abilities.

What veteran players have been asking for has been pretty clear from the start if you think about it. Something fun. ESO wasn't fun because it was too demanding to allow everyone to just let the waves come so it got optimized. That and overtuned nukers, the absurd XP gain and the forced cooldown on anything spammable kind forced the meta, didn't it? Now it's just used to speed level weapons, can't even do frames cause they have to be 30 already...

Did you know Eidolon hunts were supposed to replace raids? It's funny because everybody hated the idea! Huge annoying bullet sponges that dropped random bloody arcanes that you need stacks of to get any meaningful benefit from. At least the Orb Mothers have two fights so far instead of one repeated three times a night.

Arbitraries! Drones turns off powers and random Warframes and weapons have 300% more strength, regardless of if you have them or if Power Strength is a relevant stat for the frame! I seriously don't see the appeal in these, you at best pray for an endless mission and just grind Arbi Bux for prizes that'd make an arcade sticky-hand appealing.

Railjack. Launched as a frustrating, broken boring mess. Now it's just an easy, boring light spill. Speaking of Railjack and touching on grinding, look up the drop table for the Ambassador. Sexy rifles, not even gonna try for it. I have some dignity.

And now, seriously grinding! You grind in other games to get fun stuff. In Warframe you grind so you can grind so you can wait so you can grind. None of the grinding activities are fun and there are no fun activities to use your grinded stuff. The best end game we have is hitting MR 30 so you can drop boosters in relays so other people can make it up this chasm a little faster than you did.

and do you really wanna do that for Lenny Loki, that 12 squeaker who was peeing himself laughing while he Switch-TP'd you into a pit or behind the outhouse over and over again.

Do you play Conclave? Do you play Crucible? Which one had people in it?

Lunaru? Gambit?

Case: Rested.

By design MMO-esque public events are social gatherings. People gather around, show-boat a little chat here or there and generally it's an inoffensive good time. Warframe has... Missions. That it, really. The closest thing Warframe players have to social gatherings is when Baro's in town. Otherwise it's just deathly silent matchmaking screens before you see at most three other people at a time. It's confessionals, everyone's too focused on the task at hand and are too tense to really open up outside of necessity.

Also Destiny or Elder Scrolls public events are bite-sized and spread out instead of a two-day to week-long constant grind-fest.

Dismantling is great, ESO does it too. If I could actually use all the credits/endo I got from weapon parts/mods/ayatans/frames I might not complain. Like, I'd almost prefer getting the some of the materials back instead of just credits for a lot of things because credits are uselessly easy to get elsewhere and have like two use factors.

I can't see the bloody things half the time, I can't see what I'm aim AT the other half and most of them have the sound and physical effect of a spitball. Even if something like the Corinth Prime sounds like God slamming a car door, compared to my Strun Wraith I'm kicking pebbles.

Champions pretty much go back to normal and you'd ideally have two other people with you when you encounter one. Also Champions don't have giant bubbles, pulsing, beeping or otherwise, that stop you from functioning near them. Neither do Psions or Dregs.

Destiny, Borderlands, ESO, most games really, have a baseline difficulty that keeps you awake at the wheel. Warframe has an AFK timer that lasts a minute and disable mission rewards. The other games are usually capable of killing you in that amount of time unless you're in a safe zone. The kind of place that is gated off from the missions in Warframe.

Yes, everything does need to be nerfed. Let's start at Zero and work our way up from there because it's obvious from the past half-decade of floundering that patching what we've got isn't working.

Warframe's the only game of it's kind... to have these problems. No other co-op game do you just forego teammates and probably be better off. At least then you can have some action without resorting to auto-pilot. Most games of it's kind respect you enough to not need auto-pilot.

Let me tell ya, you need a vacation from this game.

take a few years off, you're breaking your mind.

[Hypernaut1]

54 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

lol. The enemies in Fortuna aren't difficult. Just annoying with the amount of nullifiers and knockbacks they use.

They're still mindless and drop like flies with the right loadouts. 

... The excuse people make when enemies are actually difficult. 

Literally anything that can be considered difficult will be met with a counter of "that's not what I meant by difficulty" whine. 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

... The excuse people make when enemies are actually difficult. 

Literally anything that can be considered difficult will be met with a counter of "that's not what I meant by difficulty" whine. 

No, I'm serious. They're really not difficult.

They may disable my abilities constantly and knock me around Fortuna like a ping pong ball. But they still can't kill me, regardless.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

A.i and enemy design isn't even that bad honestly. The problem is that the enemies have been nerfed too much because players hate to lose and WANT mindless fodder to shoot. 

All this talk of Warframe being too easy didn't mean anything when fortuna was released and people kept whining about how hard it was. 

If the enemies actually had their abilities tuned to be effective, Warframes would definitely be more challenging, even with our mobility. 

Fortuna was still BS. Warframe's issues with lack of balance doesn't just make everything too easy. It also means that what few avenues exist to make it 'hard' aren't doing so in an engaging manner.

Is playing as a lower-durability frame and getting oneshot by an Area-of-effect shotgun hard? Is having your powers switched off by a mini-boss that's gotten a nullifier shield hard? Is getting a bounce pad stuck to you so you're helpless to bounce around taking damage from each bounce until death hard? Yes, to all of these. Is it fun? No. It's just as cheesy as you deleting them with a Plasmor, except this time you're on the recieving end. Same thing as with the Railjack ground troops, specifically the officers. You had to use viral/slash on them, because the officers were passively immune to all forms of armour stripping (including stuff like Sarpa, if I remember correctly), and even then, they had resistance to slash procs, so they were just a slog to kill, usually needing several magazines pumped into their faces to kill, unless you had the latest power creep (Kuva Weapons) or just cheesed them right back with something like Limbo's Stasis.

It wasn't any more engaging or interesting to play. That's the problem with Warframe's balance issues. It's cheese or be cheesed.

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

On 2021-07-18 at 5:13 AM, (NSW)Greybones said:

Wouldn't the threat of death mean mission failure is a potential outcome? And that tougher enemies mean that fights last longer and, again, potentially lead to mission failure?

If that conflicts farming and grinding, we could have higher difficulty multiplied drop rates, drop chances and unique reward drops and multiplied affinity to balance out. High risk high reward. Mission fails could also give you some of your collected rewards so it is not a complete waste of time if you were farming

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

And if you want to travel like Teshin....you still have Valkyrs ripline lol.

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

And if you want to travel like Teshin....you still have Valkyrs ripline lol.

It would be cool though if our parazons could that though...

[Hypernaut1]

31 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Fortuna was still BS. Warframe's issues with lack of balance doesn't just make everything too easy. It also means that what few avenues exist to make it 'hard' aren't doing so in an engaging manner.

Is playing as a lower-durability frame and getting oneshot by an Area-of-effect shotgun hard? Is having your powers switched off by a mini-boss that's gotten a nullifier shield hard? Is getting a bounce pad stuck to you so you're helpless to bounce around taking damage from each bounce until death hard? Yes, to all of these. Is it fun? No. It's just as cheesy as you deleting them with a Plasmor, except this time you're on the recieving end. Same thing as with the Railjack ground troops, specifically the officers. You had to use viral/slash on them, because the officers were passively immune to all forms of armour stripping (including stuff like Sarpa, if I remember correctly), and even then, they had resistance to slash procs, so they were just a slog to kill, usually needing several magazines pumped into their faces to kill, unless you had the latest power creep (Kuva Weapons) or just cheesed them right back with something like Limbo's Stasis.

It wasn't any more engaging or interesting to play. That's the problem with Warframe's balance issues. It's cheese or be cheesed.

... The excuses people make when enemies are actually difficult.

High hp- bullet sponge

Enemy CC - cheese

Counter abilities - cheating

High damage - cheap shots

Good aim - aimbot

Hunts players down - psychic a.i.

 

It's all BS. There are counters to all those issues in Warframe. You just want the enemy to ACT difficult, but still fold to a wet napkin and barely be able to scratch you. 

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)WafflyLearner89 said:

It would be cool though if our parazons could that though...

Yea definitely, zipline is fun.

[(NSW)Greybones]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)WafflyLearner89 said:

If that conflicts farming and grinding, we could have higher difficulty multiplied drop rates, drop chances and unique reward drops and multiplied affinity to balance out. High risk high reward. Mission fails could also give you some of your collected rewards so it is not a complete waste of time if you were farming

🤔 Why not advocate for this idea to be applied to what we have right now? Many people are already afraid of mission failure and equip themselves to prevent it; maybe mission failure granting some of the accrued reward would compel people to move away from the guaranteed survival gear and reduce the fear of failure, and I'm sure many players would appreciate faster grinding if they decide to experience a harder Warframe

[Loza03]

9 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

... The excuses people make when enemies are actually difficult.

High hp- bullet sponge

Enemy CC - cheese

Counter abilities - cheating

High damage - cheap shots

Good aim - aimbot

Hunts players down - psychic a.i.

 

It's all BS. There are counters to all those issues in Warframe. You just want the enemy to ACT difficult, but still fold to a wet napkin and barely be able to scratch you. 

 

High HP can be a bullet sponge. Generally, this line is drawn depending on how engaging the enemy is to fight. If an enemy isn't engaging or interactive to fight, and only takes a long time (such as RJ officers at launch), then chances are it's a bullet sponge. This is one of most illusory of difficulty tactics, albeit one of the most fragile and sensitive, especially in a game like Warframe. Massive amounts of damage resistance that can't be removed or bypassed leading to TTK of some 5-10 seconds on a standard enemy in a horde fighter definitely qualifies as a bullet sponge.

Enemy CC is a lot harder to pull off, but can be done well. Simply put, games are all about control, so an enemy being able to remove that control is incredibly impactful. Due to that impact, however, if it feels like the player has no counter or ability to dodge, the game can wind up being sloppy, or the player's agency is or feels removed. This usually requires good conveyance that the player is about to be CC'd - for example, Monster Hunter, a game which puts a huge amount of emphasis on player CC has it be largely be focused from the large monster that is the center of attention, and frequently has cues that it's about to happen. Many games, especially more recent ones, also have skill-based ways to circumvent this, which usually rewards the player with more damage.

Enemies being able to counter abilities is similar to above, and has similar needs. Likewise, it can be hugely impactful, and force the player to reconsider. Personally speaking, I consider the standard nullifier to be one of Warframe's more interesting enemies as a consequence. However, when that ability is applied to liberally - for example, powerful enemies getting flat 'immune-to-everything', or the spawn rates of ability-cancelling enemies being so that the majority of fights in a given mission disable abilities, then it eats into the player's agency. After all, ability-cancelling is literally the removal of tools the player has.

High damage isn't itself an issue. Good aim isn't itself an issue. However, when an enemy both has access to high damage and can consistently land hits on the player (often with limited ability to meaningfully evade, such as the attack having a wide hitbox or being hitscan) then yes, it's just the enemy cheesing you because there's little if any if any ability to counteract the large amounts of damage directed at the player. Again, this takes agency away from the player.

Hunting players down and 'psychic AI' are different things. A lot of game have AI that can hunt the player down or seemingly predict the player's movements without seeming psychic. In Halo, if an Elite loses track of you, the game will note what direction you were moving. Elites will often move in the direction you were going to try and counter-flank you. Which means that if you go behind cover, wait a moment, and then come back the way you came, you can 'trick' the Elite and get an advantage. In Warframe, however, the AI can straight-up just track you through obstacles. Granted, given Warframe's needs, it's reasonable that this is the case, and thus is why I didn't complain about it myself.

 

 

Stop being the sort of person you're complaining about and stop making excuses for the game. Just because counters to these issues exist like spamming CC yourself or abusing the broken damage system, doesn't mean that these counters are fun or make the game better. That's my entire point. It is cheese or be cheesed. The avenues that exist for making the game 'hard' also make the game worse. Therefore, something deeper is the problem and needs to be fixed.

[Galuf]

Teshin is a Dax. The only probable hint we have with the trailer is that content will probably be focusd on the dax.

[EdDiesel]

I personally feel sabotage and spy missions could be revamped to promote more engaging gameplay that matches the theme of the game mode. As it is currently you just race your way to the poi, hack, bullet jump past enemies as if they do not exist because your just there to complete a task and move on. No penalties other than being spotted during the vault attempt. The race your way through because its more efficient applies to majority of the game modes on the star chart which is ok I suppose but for Spy I feel it defeats the purpose of the mission theme. Hope they reconsider revamping some of there existing game modes in addition to providing some new ones in due time.

[Kaotyke]

Teshin Gameplay was Warframe during Update 7 movement with Ripline.

Refreshing to see again, new for those who never lived through that era. Nostalgic for those who did.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Teshin gameplay looks like every other action game.  If I wanted that, I could get it by playing any one of those games.

I don't want that.  I want Warframe's gameplay, so I play Warframe.

[Sahansral]

Teshin's gameplay looked way more grounded, gritty, impactful and fun than what we current have as a core loop.
It had this oldshool warframe vibe from the first couple of years.

The sound effects, the way melee connected with the enemies....everything about the weapons and the powers felt so good, so right.

As an Excalibur player, I was/am so envious. This is how swordplay should feel like!

The gameplay trailer made we realize that freedom of maneuverability, the vast amount of weapons, the power  creep over the years did come with a price.

Damn, I'm depressed now.

[(NSW)Greybones]

13 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Damn, I'm depressed now.

Enough to do something about it?

[TeaHands]

Looks like Teshin's gameplay had a real big effect on the community, guess you could say he made an impact, a Teshin Impact.

I'll see myself out

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, TomCruisesSon said:

Looks like Teshin's gameplay had a real big effect on the community, guess you could say he made an impact, a Teshin Impact.

I'll see myself out

Oh no you won't, you're getting thrown out for that one.