Wall running, can we have it back?

[SmokinDice]

I frankly never understood the decission to replace super cool ninja-like wall runnig with weird little hops that make even less sense physically.

with the same technique you gave us with the hops you can let us move around walls now, you can just replace the animations again with running, left and right, up, and make it maybe even a little smoother still.

Running looks way cooler than little bunny hops.

[Mr.NoodleHair]

I don’t know why they replaced wall running either. I wasn’t around back then but I think I heard it was incredibly unreliable

[(PSN)robotwars7]

IIRC they changed it because wall-running meant you had to have perfectly flat, smooth walls, otherwise you'd snag on something and it would stop you. most tilesets have uneven walls with stuff attached to them now, so they changed to to wall-hopping.

I totally agree that the old proper wall-run looked WAY better, and I'd love for them to bring it back, but unless they can make it so that you actually run on any wall, it's probably gone forever.

[trst]

It was replaced because the running animation would sometimes cause you to get stuck on map geometry. It's partly why older maps had the designated wall running sections (any place with white scratch marks along the wall) and all of them were made completely flat. The issue wasn't remotely as bad as they made it seem but the hopping is still way more versatile than running was.

They did mention looking into going back to the old animation years ago. But I assume it's so low priority to begin with due to most players not even using the mechanic to begin with when all but a few rooms in the game can be traversed with normal bullet jumping. And any place where it is useful it's just to get one hop to reset your bullet jump.

[Megalomaniakaal]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I totally agree that the old proper wall-run looked WAY better, and I'd love for them to bring it back, but unless they can make it so that you actually run on any wall, it's probably gone forever.

It's probably doable but involved, basically the animation statemachine would have to have both the running and the hops in it, with the hopping used for the 'bumps' and transitions on walls. Meaning the wall colliders would also have to be custom made, likely actually involving a separate navigation mesh for it with 2 types of navigation areas, one is the flat running part the other for the hops.

 

Note that this means that unlike the current general purpose system where any wall like surface can be hopped and latched onto in this proposed hybrid system only designated nav-mesh areas would be traversable and latchable. Unless they also keep the current one as a fallback for the rest. But man thats a lot of technical debt so I doubt that's going to happen.

[(NSW)Greybones]

The wall hop works pretty well personally because there’s so few times where simply moving along a wall is a good idea; there’s so many micro adjustments to be made and jumping from wall to pole to wall (or whatever), that a straight wall-run would most likely be extremely choppy-looking as different animations play.

While I get that a wall-run may look cooler on paper, the hop kind of represents the touch-and-go nature of moving around the area just to stay alive; I doubt the wallrun would be used very much in the first place outside of novelty’s sake anyways, since most of the time people build so that the bare minimum of effort is needed to survive, and wallrunning would be kind of pointless effort running counter to the philosophy at play

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

39 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

IIRC they changed it because wall-running meant you had to have perfectly flat, smooth walls, otherwise you'd snag on something and it would stop you. most tilesets have uneven walls with stuff attached to them now, so they changed to to wall-hopping.

I totally agree that the old proper wall-run looked WAY better, and I'd love for them to bring it back, but unless they can make it so that you actually run on any wall, it's probably gone forever.

Better question is why did they create maps with such uneven geometry that didn't support gameplay?

Too many tile sets seem to hate parkour. Might make sense lore wise in that the enemies design the maps with deliberate snags, by that just detracts from the fun.

[_junguler]

it was very awkward to perform specially on a controller, it looked weird too, i prefer the current wall hoping way better.

[ReddyDisco]

1 hour ago, SmokinDice said:

Running looks way cooler than little bunny hops

Depends on the frames and assthetics 

[Megalomaniakaal]

@ReddyDisco Ah a cultured response

 

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

IIRC they changed it because wall-running meant you had to have perfectly flat, smooth walls, otherwise you'd snag on something and it would stop you. most tilesets have uneven walls with stuff attached to them now, so they changed to to wall-hopping

What irritates me is this Snagging Issue is still present on Newer Tilesets despite the fact that by now DE knows how easy it is to get snagged on to anything in this game...

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

Yeah, the wall running was replaced so that they could do it on non-flat geometry.

The hops allow us to move way more freely because the contact with the geometry is only point-to-point, it's not based on continual latching. There was also the fact that we couldn't run more than about double our body height vertically, and they needed a new system to replace that and allow us to climb all the way up walls.

What they've said most recently on the DevStreams is that they're working on a way to make the mapping of the wall-running be more... forgiving of the geometry, so that we can swap back to a more fluid running movement.

It's just not a priority right now compared to all the other things that they've promised to deliver.

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

Idea:

Make wall running come back but whenever your running into a snag you will automatically parkour/jump over it. That would be cool.

[PublikDomain]

4 hours ago, trst said:

It was replaced because the running animation would sometimes cause you to get stuck on map geometry.

And you still snag on S#&$ with hops :/

[Numerikuu]

I wish they'd bring it back tbh, only remastered. I've never, ever, liked the dumb bunny hopping. Would love for it to be something akin to what this guy has done with his recreation of Monster Hunter Rise in the Unreal 5 Engine.

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 hours ago, Lutesque said:

What irritates me is this Snagging Issue is still present on Newer Tilesets despite the fact that by now DE knows how easy it is to get snagged on to anything in this game...

 

On a hunch (which could be wrong), do you hold the jump button while moving along the walls?

[Lutesque]

21 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

On a hunch (which could be wrong), do you hold the jump button while moving along the walls?

Sometimes.... Depends on where I'm going....

Why ?

[(NSW)Greybones]

21 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Sometimes.... Depends on where I'm going....

Why ?

As a bit of unsolicited advice from someone who really enjoys wallhopping during and between fight clusters, I’ve found tapping to the rhythm provides a lot more control, even along stretches where I feel like I should be able to hold (there are valid observations that the level geometry has a lot of things to get snagged on, and some of them are along what looks like flat-enough areas). I used to hold the button everywhere because a few wallruns across other games use the button hold to stick to the wall, which doesn’t work so well for the often-uneven geometry of Warframe’s levels

edit: I hate giving unsolicited advice, but I cannot stand by while wallhopping could be easier and potentially more enjoyable to do for others if possible. Assuming the advice is even applicable, of course

[vanaukas]

Theoperator should have it, a short wall running for better tileset traversing instead just using void dash

[IIX_Vritrayan]

Yup I kinda missed the old wallrunning system tbh, I understand the geometry problem and why they replaced it, but can't it be changed?

Make the hop possibly a button tap, and the wallrunning animation a button hold. There's ways to go around it instead of completely removing it.

[Corvid]

18 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Better question is why did they create maps with such uneven geometry that didn't support gameplay?

Because back then wallrunning wasn't something you'd be doing constantly, and Warframe's movement was much more grounded overall. Most of your traversal would be running/sprinting, with wallrunning mainly being used to navigate specific "puzzles", as well as the occasional shortcut.

[Fallen77]

Il y a 10 heures, DealerOfAbsolutes a dit :

Better question is why did they create maps with such uneven geometry that didn't support gameplay?

Too many tile sets seem to hate parkour. Might make sense lore wise in that the enemies design the maps with deliberate snags, by that just detracts from the fun.

Because that is part of what they decided the challenge would be for that parts.

Whether or not the mechanic is as good as it could be, it is simply what they decided. "Oh, kuva fortress is gonna be cramped, parkour is gonna be tough to use there", that's what has been set for this kind of tileset, and that's up to us to find ways around those limitations.

There is no reason why every tileset should be perfectly convenient to us, that's the point of varied game design.

That's kinda the same with how people were complaining that Io was made less convenient for speed farmers, forcing us to actually use our mobility to go after ennemies spread out around the map, rather than just standing still in the middle for the entire game. It doesn't make it better or worst, it's just what the devs decided we would have to deal with.

[Hypernaut1]

They tried to keep wall running, and even showed us several examples of it. In the end, they weren't able to make it work. 

I wonder if someone can link to those old parkour 2.0 rework videos. They had some interesting ideas, before they settled on both jumping and wall hopping.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

There'd have to be some wall magnetism or momentum mechanic to keep us sticking to the wall while doing precision movement. Wall latch is close, but requires you to hold the zoom button (at least on console) and has a timer. Pretty much parkour 3.0. It would have to be a focused effort to it's foundation. 

More reliable ledge grabs would be a welcome addition too. 

[Tesseract7777]

It wasn't as good as it sounds. It was mostly annoying and got in the way of level geometry. 

It's nice to go all nostalgia, but lets face it, it just wasn't a good mechanic. 

It was a cool idea aesthetically to fit with the idea of ninja's, but was in practice horrible.