Crossplay: A failure that sacrificed the enjoyment of PC players to the altar of trendiness

[Vahenir]

A partial fix to this would be to make the cross play setting actually be useful. Right now if you turn it off you're stuck with people on your platform that also have it turned off, so its pretty much the same as going solo. It should just limit hosts to those on your platform. If there's a client through cross play that typically doesn't matter. Spawn rates aren't screwed over by that.

Now myself i would prefer if they turned it off entirely and divided between PC and console. So all consoles can play together and PC is on their own, so they can actually do quick patches again. Having to wait literally months for fixes because of console certification taking forever is terrible. Pretty sure this would end up being better for most people as PC would get quick patches and consoles would benefit from PC serving as a beta so when the patches go live on console they are less buggy overall. It also leaves more options open to optimize the, then, two versions of the game for the different control schemes.

[Marvelous_A]

I mostly play SP (which always has the highest possible spawn rate) so I don't really notice any spawn rate issues. In non-SP mode the scaling spawn rate has always been awful. I barely even encounter any console player, and pc players with horrendous internet quality always exist.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Marvelous_A

[sly_squash]

• Crossplay ruined recruiting chat because of the stupid numbers scheme spam.
• Crossplay ruined clan recruiting because recruiters get spammed with requests from people who should know I obviously can't invite them anyway (how are we gonna share a dojo if you know crosstrade isn't enabled...)
• Crossplay ruined fast void fissure runs because they're still loading while we're waiting at extraction.
• Crossplay ruined kuva floods because apparently it's fashionable there to force the entire squad to extract while they're farming out siphon because all you care about is a worthless requiem relic when in 10 seconds we could've all had 2.5-10k kuva as well.
• Most recently, crossplay ruined profit taker runs during double credit events because there's laggy orb vallis and then there's console host laggy orb vallis.

[LillyRaccune]

Personally I wish we could have an Automatic mode for Crossplay/Not-Crossplay. Allow system diagnostics to judge if a player should be cross-platformable or not.

 

On 4/7/2023 at 7:56 PM, Tiltskillet said:

You forgot one from the PC perspective:  We're now on a console cert schedule for major bugfixes. :/

Is this really what PC players think? I know for a fact that pc still gets major hotfixes for bugs while console players have to wait for the next big update. The console channels of this forum are filled with bug reports where DE staff are replying "yes we have a fix, but you need to wait until next update because Certification".

I am wrong.

On 4/8/2023 at 3:40 AM, Yamazuki said:

Yeah, there definitely aren't anyone on PC that falls under this category.

I do. My wifi sucks right now. I am stuck behind doors that won't open and on the rare chance that I am made host, everyone complains about how laggy the game is and they leave as soon as possible. Before my wifi died, I was normally #1 or #2 to get to extraction, now I'm always last.

Edited April 12, 2023 by LillyRaccune

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

On 4/7/2023 at 4:56 PM, Tiltskillet said:

You forgot one from the PC perspective:  We're now on a console cert schedule for major bugfixes. :/

Is this really what PC players think? I know for a fact that pc still gets major hotfixes for bugs while console players have to wait for the next big update. The console channels of this forum are filled with bug reports where DE staff are replying "yes we have a fix, but you need to wait until next update because Certification".

Hey Lily, do note where and when that was posted.  And that none of those bugs have been fixed on any platform.

There are bugs that get addressed in hotfixes, but every platform gets those at the same time.  AFAICR, that's always been the case.  The thing that's changed is PC is now waiting on console certs, whereas before we would get those fixes earlier than console.  (And allow DE to use PC as a test "server".)

All part of the beauty of us all playing the same version of the game together at all times now.  [';;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;pp

That last part my cat just added somehow by walking on my keyboard. I think that may be one of the most brilliant things I've ever seen, so I'm leaving it, lol.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

15 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Someone on console claiming that Ulfrun's Descent can keep up in the Steel Path, for instance, is likely having a very different experience with it than someone with PC spawns

I've stated multiple times now that SP has much, much higher spawn rates than normal missions, even on older consoles.  That being said, Ulfrun's Descent is trash.  I actually made a whole thread about how bad the ability is.  I think that boils down to what people actually see as effective or fun.  There is also, again, an implication here that console players are less skilled because they are dealing with an "easier" game.  In SP we already have higher spawn rates.  Not easier there.  In fissures or survivals, we have lower spawn rates.  That actually means that you need higher, more efficient kill speed, since you have barely enough enemies to keep life support up.  This means that console players that are decent at the game usually end up more aggressive, because we're used to having to really struggle to keep LS up.  Every group has had different experiences, yes.  But this notion that console players are all slow and useless is becoming extremely grating.

 

16 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I can only hope DE iterates on crossplay further.

I hope so as well.  Better hosting and joining mechanics that don't leave out the large amount of players on older hardware would be nice.  And since outside this forum I've met a lot of cool non-xbox players, having cross-friends/clans/etc would be nice as well.  And if they fix console spawn rates (which is already demonstrably possible) then the only consoles that would suck to have as host are older ones.  And a lot of them don't want to host, they just can't do anything about it.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Man, if only they would let us choose to host or not host.  Like we've been asking for over several years.  I've seen so many Switch players say here and in-game that they would never choose to host.  This one change, that we've asked for repeatedly, would solve a lot of the headaches with cross play.

We should NEVER have that option because trolls exist. Railjack pilots know this all too well. People can really ruin good things so DE has to think from a wide view.

@taiiat Made a great suggestion to allow older consoles/PCs to be set to resist being host machines. This could be extended for all systems and give players the option to not be the host instead of having the option to always be the host. This limits trolling/confused players while enhancing the overall experience for everyone.

[sunderthefirmament]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

In SP we already have higher spawn rates.  Not easier there.  In fissures or survivals, we have lower spawn rates.  That actually means that you need higher, more efficient kill speed, since you have barely enough enemies to keep life support up.

This wasn’t my experience with console hosts on SP conjunction survival. I think the life support drains at a rate proportional to spawns, or at least I noticed that life support wasn’t decreasing very quickly despite their being nothing to kill. It might vary among consoles.  And it’s also going to be colored by our own perceptions and what we’re used to. 

[Packetdancer]

18 hours ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I played crossplay with Playstation players on Final Fantasy XIV for years and whenever the game had a bad bug they would stomp it out in days instead of months, crossplay wasn't really interfering with gameplay.

Is it something about maybe dedicated servers being able to handle users connecting with different versions instead of peer to peer, is it maybe a huge company like S.E. just being able to force the update on Playstation whenever they want or what is Warframe missing?

A little from column A (a lot of FFXIV's hotfixes are server-side ones), a little from column B (Square-Enix has a little more leeway than smaller companies, in part because if there was a massive game-breaking bug in a major MMO and SQEX said "Well, we have a fix, but Sony is preventing us from rolling it out" it would not look good for Sony).

Mostly column A, though.

[taiiat]

4 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

We should NEVER have that option because trolls exist. Railjack pilots know this all too well. People can really ruin good things so DE has to think from a wide view.

@taiiat Made a great suggestion to allow older consoles/PCs to be set to resist being host machines. This could be extended for all systems and give players the option to not be the host instead of having the option to always be the host. This limits trolling/confused players while enhancing the overall experience for everyone.

to be clear, the game already has a feature for this technically - you can set your 'Device Type' to 'Laptop' which will make yourself less likely to be chosen as Host when the game is performing Host elections.

but something much stronger is needed, that setting is more of a suggestion.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2023-04-07 at 5:19 PM, Kaiga said:

Now that crossplay has been out for a while, it's time for DE to face the music of what they've produced: 

-Lowered spawn rates for no reason

-Terrible connections, host migration and slow loading performance 

-Unfamiliar, unresponsive players lagging behind in controlability and player performance 

-Hotfixes held up by cert on every console

-Non-crossplay being dead from it being turned on by default.

 

It is safe to say that the game experience was made objectively worse for the majority of players, in order to accomplish some long awaited bandwagon obejctive, accommodating the increasingly obsolete hardware limitations of last-gen consoles at the expense of the experience overall.

Cross-save and account transfers are the only way out of this mess.

Cope

[(XBOX)Shodian]

You can always turn crossplay off if it's not working for you.

 

 

[LillyRaccune]

22 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Hey Lily, do note where and when that was posted.  And that none of those bugs have been fixed on any platform.

Tried looking up a number of bugs that proved I was right... but no. My bad. I fixed my post, don't want to spread wrong info.

22 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

[';;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;pp

That last part my cat just added

Accidentally brilliant!

It goes above and beyond traditional cat "genius".

Spoiler

 

[trst]

43 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

You can always turn crossplay off if it's not working for you.

 

 

"You can always turn co-op off if DE ruins it."

It's literally faster to abort missions until you get a non crossplay host than it is to find matches with crossplay off.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

1 hour ago, trst said:

"You can always turn co-op off if DE ruins it."

It's literally faster to abort missions until you get a non crossplay host than it is to find matches with crossplay off.

Okay then just do that.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

so does anybody know why letter 13 decided my post about crossplay complaints isn't fit for general discussion and instead of transferring it to the appropriate sub, locked the thread instead?

and then you see many others make the same type of thread about the same type of subject on general discussion and it's suddenly fine?

[TheArmchairThinker]

Funny that this was the thing people want and now it's a "failure"

A little tip, if you don't want to have console to host, invite those players. Anyone who invites will be the number 1 (host) while the rest will join the host so if you're confident you have a good PC, invite your teammates

[MagPrime]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

so does anybody know why letter 13 decided my post about crossplay complaints isn't fit for general discussion and instead of transferring it to the appropriate sub, locked the thread instead?

and then you see many others make the same type of thread about the same type of subject on general discussion and it's suddenly fine?

My psychic link to @Letter13 has been severed for years, might be better off asking him directly. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

30 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

My psychic link to @Letter13 has been severed for years, might be better off asking him directly. 

lol, no i meant maybe i said something extra intense that i don't remember?

all i remember that i said "Crossplay is awful" in the post title, then explained why in the thread.

i don't know, maybe awful is a strong word to describe it, but it was indeed frustrating.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

For what its worth, I know myself a bunch of my console friends have been loving finally being able to play with our pc friends 

[Tiltskillet]

1 minute ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

For what its worth, I know myself a bunch of my console friends have been loving finally being able to play with our pc friends 

Oh, totally.  I don't think many people believe cross play was a bad idea.  Most of the criticisms seem to be about implementation.  I hope a lot of the issues are temporary, but I don't think DE has said much about it, so it's understandable that there is some concern.  I'm concerned, anyway.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

 

Accidentally brilliant!

It goes above and beyond traditional cat "genius".

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I have to admit, I deleted one character out of that string that made it completely obscene.  And nobody would have believed it wasn't just me ghost writing for my cat, lol.

[WILDBILL212]

After reading the first page of responses, I'm now thinking I need to do my own comparison of playing with my PC with cross-play disabled.

Like others here, I'm tired of all the rehosting and what does look like a different number of enemies with the exact same mission (which apparently is related to who is hosting the mission).

I think one solution to this is to allow more control of how public squads are created. Add a few more options besides public, invite only, friends only, solo. Split the public into a few types like: 1) Public with cross-play, 2) Public with me as host, 3) Public, no cross-play. Normally I leave the cross-play enabled, but for missions where it makes a significant difference in game play, I'd likely want to not use it.

[(XBOX)AchilDeed]

There is no crosssave without crossplay. 

[Wiktoryk]

Thanks to several posts on the topic,it is not unknown that crossplay brought negatives for PC players.Issues like lower spawnrates with console hosts,slower load times and less frequent updates are not balanced out by slightly faster matchmaking and the ability to play with friends on another platform is only beneficial to those who have them.

It will be better when remaining social features get included,but there are actions that can be done now.Enabling matchmaking regardless of crossplay would be very good.A solution would be to adjust based on team's settings-if all currently grouped players have crossplay enabled then anyone can join,if someone has it disabled then that person can only join a group that doesn't already have players from other platforms and the group they join would no longer accept other platforms.It could be adjusted so that those players would be preferred as fillers for groups(and have to deal with longer matchmaking).

Chats shouldn't be restricted based on matchmaking rules.It makes no sense that you cannot chat on region and Q&A with people who have different crossplay rules.What makes even less sense is that trade chat functions properly.

Console players shouldn't have lower spawns.Current gen can handle regular spawns perfectly fine.

It would also be better if crossplay wasn't enabled by default.I have interacted with several people who don't look at settings and so would never know that they can disable it even if it was annoying to them.

Changes will not happen,at least in a reasonable time,without an incentive for DE to do so.I am proposing disabling crossplay to all players who are not satisfied with its current state.Despite very restrictive matchmaking,I was able to match for SP dailies and with more players making the switch,it will be possible to get close to what was before crossplay.Many players playing without that feature will likely be a good sign to make changes.