Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

[HellVOps]

 

 

1

44 minutes ago, GinHikari said:

What I want to point out instead is, not many people know Wolf is weak to Paracesis.

Again, in the vid wolf had NO ARMOR at lvl70 and a full party. 

Of course, he will go down fast. Your build seems to go for redcrits(+riven?), other weapons can do it as well so nothing special there.

Wolfs in-game faction is neutral in the codex, even if we know that he got "upgraded" with some sentient serum we don't know if paracesis bonus dmg is in effect.

 

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Have you not noticed the weapons you're equipping...  do you happen to have a riven on your rubico prime, pyrana or catchmoon (honestly not sure why people like this), they're all very popular weapons to have rivens on. 

Frost prime can be rather tanky with the right build too...I know my icy avalanche build is.

I've got a rubico prime and it is actually radiation based along with a crit chance riven, I just don't see a reason to use a sniper rifle on the star map when there are multiple enemies, where it makes sense to be able to kill more than one at a time, so I prefer rifles and to a point shotguns.  Rifles are just not a good weapon against the wolf, my riven'd tenora (takes it over 100% crit chance) was giving about 80 damage per bullet the last time I encountered him with it and that was with radiation on the build. 

I've also tried archguns, fluctus, larkspur, imperator vandal (all forma'd etc) and with radiation.... none of them were particularly effective on the damage front either, although the imperator vandal did work well on his 3 buddies.  I think we both agreed previously that archguns should do more damage.

Melee in a lot of cases is now condition overload based, especially with melee 2.99999 allowing faster switching, from a high status secondary or even primary.  And while I do actually have a hybrid condition overload and blood rush plague zaw it's only partially useful against the wolf because it doesn't take status effects.  All a bit mute if I'm not actually running a melee though.

No riven on either Rubico P or Catchmoon, same with my Gram P when I use that. My Pyrana P, Plague Krip and Cyath have rivens though, but I've barelygone full melee with Wolf outside of Excal Umbra and Valkyr P and I dont use my Pyrana P more than against Lephantis or Leph Jr. during Plague Star. And the reason why people like Catchmoon is because it is a crit based and not status based version of Arca Plasmor.

I'm not sure what Frost Primes tankyness has to do with anything, Frames dont really matter with Wolf at all except if you replace your weapon with an exalted frame. I've killed him with several frames, all from a forma in process Nova P to focus farming with Enox. 

I cant see why people are so against picking a sniper as part of their kit. Yeah they arent great versus crowds, but you also have access to massive (some of the best) AoE on secondaries or your melee anyways. I barely use my primaries anymore, been like that since I got Atomos and Lesion and stayed that way through several secondaries and melee weapons that I've prefered. Currentlly I'm running rubico P on most frames and this started well before Wolf even was a thing, but I barely use it.

Archguns are a waste imo and I've never hinted on ever using them. With really great mods they can work but they arent worth the investment unless you really dont wanna give up a frame or weapon slot at all to fight wolf.

Blood Rush is enough to turn any hybrid into a deadly crit weapon. Just have a build without CO for the star map, you wont notice a difference. 

The easiest thing is still to just get a Kavat with sharpened claws, it does most of the difference on the Wolf. That or a quick melee with shattering impact.

[LSG501]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

The easiest thing is still to just get a Kavat with sharpened claws, it does most of the difference on the Wolf. That or a quick melee with shattering impact.

I actually did try the kavat (both my kavats have like 8 or 9 forma on so it's 'fully kitted' including sharpened claws) approach early on and in my experience the AI was just so useless it never seemed to attack the wolf... I will admit I didn't try the hunter command mod though, but not sure how well that would work anyway seeing as slash status doesn't work with the wolf.

[SordidDreams]

11 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

the issue is that he does not give that feel of danger back into regular missions. it just adds in annoyances and currently a hard a rush to get him to spawn and drop his items that are specific to him. if they really wanted to add an elements of random danger then they shouldn't of added items that make the player look forward into counters with this character. 

it would be like if alien's isolation rewarded you the gun to kill the aliens if you danced with death with the aliens a few donzens of times. the sense of danger dies and the so called danger looks more appealing. 

Eh, I feel that annoyance and challenge are a matter of opinion. I find him pretty challenging, and I'm okay with a bullet sponge boss that requires good gear to defeat. The only change he needs in that respect is to not prevent players from finishing missions if they can't defeat him. So either make him leave more reliably (currently he supposedly only leaves if everyone dies) or allow extraction same as when the G3 invade.

I agree that the rush to spawn him and get his drops is a problem, but I think it's more a problem with communication than with the boss as such. People rush to get him and his loot because they think he's only going to be here for a limited amount of time; it's only recently been confirmed that that's not the case, he's here to stay. So in that respect he's the same as Stalker, multiple layers of low RNG available indefinitely, i.e. not something you're supposed to farm for specifically. I think people would be a lot less bothered if DE had been clear from the beginning that he and his drops are not going away after a couple months.

[GinHikari]

I don’t have a Paracesis riven. It’s red critting because I am stacking Sacrificial Steel with Blood Rush. Most crit melee can deal red crit damage as long as you stack both crit mods on it.

Whichever the case, I have been running this build for a few days. It would still kill Wolf within 2 minutes regardless of armor.

[Boysapunk]

I'm just gonna leave this here. The Paracesis in this vid had no riven on it.

[maddragonmaster]

52 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Eh, I feel that annoyance and challenge are a matter of opinion. I find him pretty challenging, and I'm okay with a bullet sponge boss that requires good gear to defeat. The only change he needs in that respect is to not prevent players from finishing missions if they can't defeat him. So either make him leave more reliably (currently he supposedly only leaves if everyone dies) or allow extraction same as when the G3 invade.

I agree that the rush to spawn him and get his drops is a problem, but I think it's more a problem with communication than with the boss as such. People rush to get him and his loot because they think he's only going to be here for a limited amount of time; it's only recently been confirmed that that's not the case, he's here to stay. So in that respect he's the same as Stalker, multiple layers of low RNG available indefinitely, i.e. not something you're supposed to farm for specifically. I think people would be a lot less bothered if DE had been clear from the beginning that he and his drops are not going away after a couple months.

i honestly don't care about the bullet sponge bit as i have played monster hunter before i know how to have patience in a fight. how ever i don't have the patience to jump in and out of missions for hours on end and picking missions that can easily be rushed as i never seen him spawn pass 3-4 minutes.  and oh i would mind if he stated if someone didn't mention reducing his spawn rate and restricting him to one planet.  which makes me even more in a dang rush to get his stuff before it becomes even more of a nightmare to get.

stalker, wolf nor any of the assassins to my knowledge never had any persisting dread or danger ever since. one. they had gear to collect,  two defeating them becomes second nature when you fight them a good number of times with a good build. so they are bound to run out of the fear factor and end up as a annoyance factor or a meh factor sooner or later.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Actually I was here when second dream came out, can't remember him being 'too hard' on release but to be fair I wasn't a newbie then so had experience etc on my side. 

Oh ok. Well basically since as you know we had no operator his adaptive armour was a real pain. Most non-top tier players had to equip weapons of 2 different damage type and ips types in order to deal with him adapting to your weapons attack. In short, it forced you into a loadout unless you had access to the most powerful gun at the time, the Sancti Tigris which you and I most likely used to blow him away with sheer damage. 

[--END--Rikutatis]

5 hours ago, ZedrinBot said:

This rattleguts can kill level 150 corrupted bombards in about 2 seconds with corrosive, about 1.5 with radiation.

I'll switch it over to radiation while nightwave is active, but given how damage works, that's not going to be much faster. The wolf has absurd amounts of health that does not make sense for his scaling or level.

I do not know how else I can get this across to you. This isn't an equipment problem, it's a poorly designed mob because DE doesn't know how to balance for the wild fluctuations in damage that this game revolves around.

Stop pretending like this is okay and justifying poor design choices, otherwise we'll keep getting them.

 

1 hour ago, Ced23Ric said:

Maxed Rad (see above) mutli-forma'd Kitgun with Arcane Avenger R3, blasting at peak RoF/charge, hitting every shot, with orange crits. I'm not sure, bud, what could I be doing wrong?

If you guys read his Wiki info we wouldn't have yet another thread on this matter. He has 60%+ damage reduction, alloy armor and full immunity to status. This means that a rattleguts kitgun modded for corrosive is one of the worst choices for fighting him. His dmg reduction + armor means a low dmg fast firing weapon is almost useless. You want a high dmg per shot weapon, fully modded for radiation (preferably with 90% mods, not dual stats) and crit based, not status based. Snipers, melee, etc..

It's the same meta as eidolons really. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by --END--Rikutatis

[SordidDreams]

9 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

oh i would mind if he stated if someone didn't mention reducing his spawn rate and restricting him to one planet

I mean, that's just speculation. Who knows what's going to happen.

9 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

which makes me even more in a dang rush to get his stuff before it becomes even more of a nightmare to get

That's something I don't get. People are simultaneously complaining that his drops are too rare and too crap, and that he himself is too rare and too tough. I mean, surely if he and his stuff are so terrible, isn't it a good thing they're at least rare?

11 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

stalker, wolf nor any of the assassins to my knowledge never had any persisting dread or danger ever since. one. they had gear to collect,  two defeating them becomes second nature when you fight them a good number of times with a good build. so they are bound to run out of the fear factor and end up as a annoyance factor or a meh factor sooner or later. 

I guess, but couldn't you say that about any enemy in any game? There's only a limited amount of enjoyment you can get out of fighting a given enemy, eventually it becomes boring and annoying. Which I guess is why games have more than one type of enemy.

[Ced23Ric]

11 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

 

If you guys read his Wiki info we wouldn't have yet another thread on this matter. He has 60%+ damage reduction, alloy armor and full immunity to status. This means that a rattleguts kitgun modded for corrosive is one of the worst choices for fighting him. His dmg reduction + armor means a low dmg fast firing weapon is almost useless. You want a high dmg per shot weapon, fully modded for radiation (preferably with 90% mods, not dual stats) and crit based, not status based. Snipers, melee, etc..

Did you read?

Rattleguts. Haymaker (lowest RoF, highest damage). Killstream (highest crit). Primed Crit mods. Primed Heat mod. Multishot mods. Multishot riven. 2.2k Rad/shot. I even posted the stats and the build. But I changed Jolt for Convulsion now, for another +300dmg/shot Rad, which is a ~12% increase in radiation damage. Think that was my mistake? The 30% less Electricity damage?

Or are you saying that Kitguns are generally useless here, and only Rubico-likes help? Because I did deal the damage. He's just tanky as heck. I've also seen the video of someone slashing him with redcrits for 15k and a Paracesis. Impressive. That's about the same or less damage than my Kitgun with orange crits, though. The Wolf scales by party-size. If you meet him solo, he's a giggly annoyance. If you meet him with four players and not everyone has a Wolf-hunting weapon equipped, he just doesn't go down.

[RX-3DR]

20 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

If you guys read his Wiki info we wouldn't have yet another thread on this matter. He has 60%+ damage reduction, alloy armor and full immunity to status. This means that a rattleguts kitgun modded for corrosive is one of the worst choices for fighting him. His dmg reduction + armor means a low dmg fast firing weapon is almost useless. You want a high dmg per shot weapon, fully modded for radiation (preferably with 90% mods, not dual stats) and crit based, not status based. Snipers, melee, etc..

It's the same meta as eidolons really. 

If it's a percentage damage reduction, it wouldn't matter if you're doing 200 damage on 5 hits or 1000 damage in a single hit. 60% reduction would still result in 80 x 5 or 400 x 1.

Only reason why Snipers and Melee are recommended is because they will eventually scale by combo multipliers to actually be able to overcome the damage reduction by sheer numbers.

[Softballbryan]

These criminals play a dirty game against us.... we gots to be more dirty then dem.........

[maddragonmaster]

10 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That's something I don't get. People are simultaneously complaining that his drops are too rare and too crap, and that he himself is too rare and too tough. I mean, surely if he and his stuff are so terrible, isn't it a good thing they're at least rare?

from my opinion i believe people are saying his drops are bad because it is too rare for the quality it is given.  the hammer is probably around decent since its update and mask is probably ok for operator mask but considering that in some cases operators seem unpopular it kind of defeats the purpose.  i honestly don't mind it but the rarity of theses items far out weigh their usefulness.

16 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

I guess, but couldn't you say that about any enemy in any game? There's only a limited amount of enjoyment you can get out of fighting a given enemy, eventually it becomes boring and annoying. Which I guess is why games have more than one type of enemy.

no not really since i have been told dozen upon dozens of times that these assassin based guys were design to create "tension"  trying to make it scare and what not or at least moderately spooky when i don't feel that or at least anymore. because it feels more of a scare or tension builder if your a fresh new player running around the solar map. but these guys are not build for new players they are built with experienced players in mind. 

this is the main focus of my irritation since it is so in front of my face i can't see anything else to complain about.

[CephalonDizzy]

16 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

Did you read?

Rattleguts. Haymaker (lowest RoF, highest damage). Killstream (highest crit). Primed Crit mods. Primed Heat mod. Multishot mods. Multishot riven. 2.2k Rad/shot. I even posted the stats and the build. But I changed Jolt for Convulsion now, for another +300dmg/shot Rad, which is a ~12% increase in radiation damage. Think that was my mistake? The 30% less Electricity damage?

Or are you saying that Kitguns are generally useless here, and only Rubico-likes help? Because I did deal the damage. He's just tanky as heck. I've also seen the video of someone slashing him with redcrits for 15k and a Paracesis. Impressive. That's about the same or less damage than my Kitgun with orange crits, though. The Wolf scales by party-size. If you meet him solo, he's a giggly annoyance. If you meet him with four players and not everyone has a Wolf-hunting weapon equipped, he just doesn't go down.

I think kitguns are one of the better choices overall since they are more usable than lugging around a sniper all the time.

HOWEVER:

The big reason why snipers work well is because the damage escalates very quickly as you build up your shot combo.  Similarly, combo multiplier on a crit melee + blood rush also builds up to a lot of damage. I'm assuming the wolf doesn't have any special mechanics that makes him immune to combo multipliers since I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere.

The most comfortable method I found, is using hunter's adrenaline with a crit melee with lifestrike, since you'll have very sustained damage and can almost ignore the three stooges that tag along with him. It's generally a useful combo to have, though admittedly not appropriate for all frames either

 

He's still a bullet sponge though. But hey, he drops awesome stuff like Northwind and Molten Impact!

Edited April 30, 2019 by RushBCyka

[FlusteredFerret]

Hmm. I've only got 1 forma on my Paracesis...probably not going to be that effective yet.

Only managed to take him down once so far, on Venus with my Braton Prime...and then only just...

 

[--RV--Earth]

i used to just use his health against him with magus lock down and he would have died after almost 2 pool worth of dashes. now they wont target him and he cought me off guard with only a melle melee weapon with nothing equipped other than it useful because warframe ability dont exactly work on him either, got him with tenno to about half his health before i died and he left after dieing only once so chaining the thing where he leaves would be nice

[WhiteMarker]

1 hour ago, Boysapunk said:

I'm just gonna leave this here. The Paracesis in this vid had no riven on it.

And what is this supposed to tell us?
You could use any weapon without any mods as long as you are running a Chroma.

[Guest]

Any crit melee using Bloodrush, Radiation and Sacrificial mods works good enough.

[SordidDreams]

28 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

from my opinion i believe people are saying his drops are bad because it is too rare for the quality it is given.  the hammer is probably around decent since its update and mask is probably ok for operator mask but considering that in some cases operators seem unpopular it kind of defeats the purpose.  i honestly don't mind it but the rarity of theses items far out weigh their usefulness.

I guess, but again I have to point out the same is true of the other assassins and their drops. And, I mean, wouldn't people complain about the low RNG even more if these items were actually good and useful?

30 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

no not really since i have been told dozen upon dozens of times that these assassin based guys were design to create "tension"  trying to make it scare and what not or at least moderately spooky when i don't feel that or at least anymore. because it feels more of a scare or tension builder if your a fresh new player running around the solar map. but these guys are not build for new players they are built with experienced players in mind.  

this is the main focus of my irritation since it is so in front of my face i can't see anything else to complain about. 

I dunno, I had a pretty tense fight with him just recently in a kuva flood. Between him, his little gremlins, the kuva guardians, sapping ospreys, and nullifiers, it was a pretty scrappy encounter.

[maddragonmaster]

between the bad luck with spawn rates and arguing with people that go "oh he isn't so bad, he was intended to be that way." my stress levels are through the roof.

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

you could also use other armor stripping options like sharpened claws or frames that can strip it like frost avalanche,mag polarize,oberon reckoning 

with enough power strength any of those frames can strip most armored enemies including the wolf. I personally use kavat with sharpened claws 😛

[Ced23Ric]

I got an irony cake for y'all. The long fight makes CC relevant, because maintaining a hold on the invincible molly tossers significantly simplifies the fight.

Then you just blast him until he falls over. So, a couple minutes.

[maddragonmaster]

4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

I guess, but again I have to point out the same is true of the other assassins and their drops. And, I mean, wouldn't people complain about the low RNG even more if these items were actually good and useful?

I dunno, I had a pretty tense fight with him just recently in a kuva flood. Between him, his little gremlins, the kuva guardians, sapping ospreys, and nullifiers, it was a pretty scrappy encounter.

i am overly fricking stressed don't argue with me on this dang thing. he is not good in any form of the way.

1 minute ago, Ced23Ric said:

I got an irony cake for y'all. The long fight makes CC relevant, because maintaining a hold on the invincible molly tossers significantly simplifies the fight.

Then you just blast him until he falls over. So, a couple minutes.

not much time for use sense he only spawns 6% of the time.

[Yoruno]

Give us some sort of wolf beacon-ish gear. But its not something you use to summon wolf like existing beacons, you use it to summon aid against wolf.

Imagine player stalker that's in work right now. Now have it not be stalker, have that player join a full party mission that wolf has spawned and that players inside has used a distress beacon. Just to stop being exploited for non-wolf plays, just condition the beacon to be usable only when wolf is in mission.

There was something like this in dark souls series where you can call for help from a player from certain group to deal with another intruding player.

 

Why would it be a good idea?

-it lets casually playing people to keep playing casually, grinding, farming, etc.

-it lets people that wants to farm/fight wolf focus on doing just that.

-it also gives players the an option whether they want to deal with wolf themselves or not.

 

[rant] I made two posts on reddit to see what people think about it before posting here since there's complaints daily about how tedious he is or how terrible his drops are but the reception... wasn't really helpful. boggles my mind with the lack of activity considering there's at least 3 wolf posts every day. anyways copy pasta. [/rant]