Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

5 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

We'd still have the Itzal nerf.  The question Rebb brought forward may have started with "K-drives fun vs Archwing practicality" but it really ended with Scott saying, "Itzal >>> everything else by a wide margin."  It's the new dual zoren roflcopter, which many of the old timers here should know eventually got addressed and resulted in bullet jumping as a great equalizer.

I don't mind if an adjustment is made, truth be told yes, we do use Itzal over all other Archwings a lot. However I'm not forgetting that just now during Buried Debts you had an Amesha meta for defending the fractures. During Razorback Armada when people farm Salacia, Neptune you see mainly Amesha for defending the objective and Elytron for nuking enemies.

If you tell me that Itzal overshadows other AW's that much, fine, do nerf it. But don't do it solely because it outshines other Archwings in a single mode (open worlds) and on just one instance (method of travel), and when blink is just an accessory (Itzal's base speed tends to be the main cause for use, blink is a crutch). And let's not forget that blink is the Loki of AW's, it rellies on that tactical advantage for space survival.

Scott wants to nerf it? Fine, wait for Railjack to be out and see what rework it may need. Because I'm 99% sure Amesha and Elytron will be meta when it comes to space battles in general and I'll even go as far as betting Odonata and Itzal will be overshadowed a bit. Different tools for different purposes, all in all. Because apparently he's the only one who thinks this and the other devs were quick to assume he was joking, and then tried to disagree when Scott proved to be serious.

Sometimes we're just wrong, and acting on hype and rashness is not the solution.

Edited April 6, 2019 by (PS4)Pauloluisx

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Just going to post my thoughts on this. Probably an "unpopular opinion" but oh well...forums are for discussion.
*Equips Flame Repellant Mod & Arcane Ice (Rank 3)*
________________________________________________________________________________________

Honestly, the easy fix for this is simply to remove/block Archwing powers when in Atmosphere.
Done.

Nerfing Itzal's blink cripples the Archwing for it's actual designed content...IE: Archwing.
Yes, I know most folks on these forums don't play Archwing. I do play Archwing, and I've leveled (and even Forma'd) my Archwings multiple times.
I've learned the differences, nuances. & etc for each Archwing. Itzal is very well designed, it's kit is very well balanced.
Blink is critical for movement when in Penumbra (Cloaked), also the very light (Amesha like) Armor of the Archwing is justified by the fact that the Itzal can blink out of bad situations.

The Archwings are debatably very Trinity/role based.
Elytron - Tank (Warrior/Berserker)
Takes heavy hits, locks down areas, & when needed can dish out some massive burst of DPS. (That Nuke is amazing.)
Somehow this Archwing's kit has really started to suck dps wise since PoE. The #1 is great for annoying enemies & getting their attention.
The #3 is good for locking down an area but unless thep layer stacks the dmg it really only prevents enemies from charging in/kills trash, the #4 is amazing in Archwing missions but laughably weak everywhere else.
Itzal - DPS (Rogue/Theif)
Fast, Nimble, deals large & consistent DPS, avoids taking damage (like a Rogue) whenever possible.
Blink + Penumbra is how it avoids damage the majority of the time with Fighter Escort serving as decoys & a damage buff.
All of this Archwing's kit is around avoiding damage while dishes out damage. Cold Snap ifor example is effectively used as both CC (Augment) & dps.
Odanata - Off-Tank/DPS/Support (Paladin...ish?)
Jack of All trades really, but tends to do better as an Off-Tank as it's dps is impo more consistent due its #1 being a fiery version of Volt's shield for the team (Augment), it's #3 being very solid & reliable dps that also clears out trash in droves, & it's "Win Button" #4 that does amazingly/surprisingly high dmg/OHK everything.
Amesha - Healer/CC/Support (Priest/Cleric)
Not much to write about, it defends, it distracts, it heals.
 

The nerf to Archwings in Atmosphere gameplay has already made the bulk of their powers useless, you really can't fight in Atmosphere either because the Grineer & Corpus have perfected Anti-Archwing weaponry that instantly destroys the Archwing, and they are all perfect shots when it comes to fast moving aerial targets as they NEVER miss.

So blocking Archwing abilities on land would both remedy the "balance" issue Blink causes all while preserving the balance between Archwings for Archwing gameplay.
With Railjack incoming I DO NOT want the Itzal being nerfed over content that it barely has an effect over.
Archwings will always beat K-Drives because they can fly, and boosting even the slow Elytron is faster than a fully modded for speed K-Drive.
No terrain to block/slow players down, no enemies (in the air), Breakneck speed, no downsides.
K-Drive sadly while useful for fast travel of short distances is more of a gimmick, as damage/weapons they lack the needed punch to be useful. The mods just don't do enough damage, they get destroyed too quickly, and players are ragdolled off them by taking a snowflake to the face.

DE needs to BUFF K-Drives, Block Archwing Powers, and call it a day. No Nerfs needed.

[(PSN)Page8988]

4 hours ago, justin0620 said:

I can envision if K- Drive goes ridiculously fast, players are gonna hit walls or not be able to control it.

 

That's a hefty "maybe." I've had almost no problems with a K-Drive modded for maximum speed and the Magus Drive Arcane (which doubles the speed of the K-Drive briefly, for those who don't know.) For more crowded areas, simply not boosting is sufficient.

I'm aware Itzal is the main target here, but a few improvements to K-Drives as a whole could kill the discussion and please the community. My thoughts, as for reasons I'll keep to myself, I have attempted to shoot things while moving on a skateboard before.

1. Allow the use of primary and secondary weapons when not boosting on a K-Drive. Impose a moderate accuracy penalty, significant recoil penalty, and reduce resistance to being knocked off the K-Drive considerably when doing so. Maybe have recoil from weapons actually "push" the K-Drive opposite the firing trajectory in a logical manner. Maybe allow the swinging of a Melee weapon, "Dynasty Warriors on Horse" style.

2. Increase the base boost speed significantly, I'd say around 50%. Feels safe enough that it's controllable as-is, but is still a significant improvement. 

 

The "Issue" with Itzal is that it's explicitly designed to be the fastest Archwing. In Open World that's all that matters for an Archwing. Trying to engage in combat is futile because we just get shot down by PROJECTILE INCOMING every fifteen seconds anyway. In Archwing missions proper, though they're not fun content, each model Archwing has a role it fills. But again, in open world, literally nothing on an Archwing matters except movement speed. Honestly if we didn't get shot down so easily anyway, there might be a place for an Odonata shooting from up high with his Volt Shield and missiles, Amesha setting up defense drones and restoring energy, and bombarding the ground with Elytron's big 'ol missiles. Maybe some kind of flying attack support enemy that's a hassle to engage from ground, but flying up there to say hello is easier/more effective? But none of that works, Archwings are for getting around. So we default to Itzal, because it's the best at doing what Archwing is for in open world. 

Sort of sounds like "Aquaman's too good in the water, so we gonna nerf him." It's what he's for.

Edited April 6, 2019 by (PS4)Page8988

[Alpha56]

If they do that people will just use zephyr in every open world, so less diversity by a good margin.

Insteed of having the same vehicule that was made fast by design, people will all use the same warframe.

So it could be really worse.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Alpha56

[Xavori]

Dearest Scott,

Let me begin I truly understand your angst about K-drives and archwings not named Itzal being, well, forgotten.  I too wonder at times why I don't care about my K-drive. 

Of course, the most obvious reason is that leveling up yet another faction just to get access to the exact same thing I got from a quest line is a ridiculous idea.  I've already got 3 Syndicates I build faction for sitting in my computer in my ship.  Then I have to scan things for sadist computer because I want stuff he has that while stupidly overpriced for the amount of time you spend collecting faction with him, there is no other way to get.  Then I have to work on Cetus, Quills, Sol U, and Vox, and Vox is just a massively boring grind as the only way to get standing is farm torioids.  At least with the others you can mix and match your rep gains.

Then there is the whole vertical problem.  See.  Y'all put mountains and cliffs and such in the game.  Makes sense.  But it also means that being stuck on the ground is terribad for getting from point A to B.  So again, bleh to K-drive.

But that doesn't explain why the Itzal is used while the other archwings are not, does it?  It just explains why nobody bothers with your stupid k-drives once they have archwings.  To answer that, let's start with the less obvious.

The Amesha's abilities just plain suck.  The 1 sounds cool.  It block damage instances.  This would be awesome if it was a certain amount of health or the like because while an instance might be 50000000 damage blocked, it might also just be 5 damage.  And since it's instance, if you come under heavy fire made up of lots of instances, well, this was a waste of time.  The 2 doesn't work.  I know what it's supposed to do.  I'm sure it does it if you stand perfectly still next to your pretty bubble.  BUT YOU SHOULDN'T BE STANDING STILL EVER IN THIS GAME.   So ya.  It doesn't work. 3 is garbage.  Status effects don't matter when using archwings, and there are no nearby enemies.  4 would be cool except as a general rule, you max your energy in moments.  And then it quits working.  So in short, the Amesha is garbage all on its own.

Moving on to the Elytron.  The Elytron is amazing.  I lurve it.  Or I would lurve it except that archwing missions suck.  Archwings are a pain to fly in space, and I say this as someone who spends way too much time playing Titania which means I spend a whole lot of time flying ii practically every environment y'all have created.  I lurve Titania's flying.  I hate archwing flying.  Still, if archwing missions weren't annoying, the Elytron would be wonderful and my choice for actual archwing missions.

Which brings us to the Itzal.

The Itzal does everything well.  Those annoying incoming warnings?  Ya, just teleport and gone.  Need to set up a careful shot because you have some riven popping to do?  Ya, just go invis and take your time aiming.  Need to defend something?  Ya, just call out your lil' guys.  Seriously.  This is the perfect archwing for any job.  Especially...

The Itzal's most important ability, tho, is getting from point A to point B.  See, Scott, the thing is, NOBODY WANTS TO WASTE 5 MINUTES GETTING TO THE FUN.  If I wanted to enjoy the scenery, and y'all did an amazing job on the rework of the plains, I'd be walking.  In fact, I've spent an inordinate amount of time doing just that checking out how awesome the plains look now.  But when I'm running missions, I'm not stopping to check out the intricacies of shadows as the bush moves in the wind.  I'm trying to get to the waypoint as fast as I can because that's what I want to be doing at that time.

You are not going to win any friends or influence any people by FORCING us to waste precious time doing nothing but getting to the next objective.  This isn't Lord of the Rings where the entire story is the journey.  This is Warframe where the entire story is, uh, not really important.  We're here to shoot things and collect loot so we can shoot things in more interesting ways.  And it's not like the journey could be interesting given the game engine.  Y'all just don't have the tech in place to create a 20 minute interactive adventure that occurs as people move through a location.  For starters, given how fast Warframes can move, you'd need to build a 2000km long map to give yourself 20 minutes of travel time to tell the story.  Besides, nobody is here to play that game.  That game is sitting in elsewhere in my Steam library for those times when I don't want to just shoot things creatively.

So as you ponder nerfing the Itzal, please keep in mind, what you are really pondering is adding tedium and forcing players to play the way you want, not the way they want.

Now if you want players using K-drives and the other archwings, you can do that.

In the case of K-Drives, fix everything.  I tried a race and couldn't figure out where I was supposed to be going.  I could prolly find a youtube video to explains this, but meh.  I have too many other things to be doing.  I spent some time doing a few tricks.  Tricks I think are cool and complicated get little reward.  But if I just grind back and forth on a pipe doing a flip or spin occasionally, I can get to 3k standing easy.  This is exactly backwards.  Finally, give up on having the k-drive be an alternate mode of transportation.  It's a fun diversion, not a way to get from point A to point B.  Any attempt to change that is going to drive players away as they get sick of driving an extra 10 minutes around mountains they used to just fly over.

In the case of archwings, first you need to make the flying better.  I don't care if momentum is a real thing.  I don't care that space doesn't create atmospheric drag to make it easier to stop.  What I care about is that holy frak is archwing flying annoying.  And the missions...blech.

Hey, Scott, here's an idea.  Go run Jordas Golem 20 times.  Tell us how much fun you had.  Then get back to us on why we should be spending any time at all playing current archwing missions.

Finally, just accept that y'all did a great job giving players a tool to get from mission point to mission point quickly.  This let you create open world maps with semi-realistic distances between objectives without dumping a lot of tedium on players requiring them to do nothing but hold down the W key while getting to the fun.  This is exactly what you should have done, and you did it.  You should be happy.  Not muttering in devstream about wanting to nerf a great tool you gave to your players.

So in conclusion, Scott.  Please leave the frakkin' Itzal the hell alone.  Instead, fix all the reasons people don't spend more time with the other vehicles.  Instead of making the game less fun, you'll be making it more fun.

Sincerely,

Xavori

[Sundjasksya]

@DE:

do not nerf Itzal !

it is the ONLY viable Archwing in PoE and the Vallis, because all the other Archwings are straight up BROKEN!

Amneshas invulnerability mode for example DOES NOT WORK! if a rocket hits you you will loose your archwing, you are downed.

and itzals blink and invisability BOTH break the missile-lock.

=> this means: Nerfing Itzal does not make us use the other Archwings more. it only annoys the hell out of your community. 

 

 

again @DE: 

start playing your own game

stop nerfing things that are working well

start fixing all the thing in need of fixing -  like broken Archwing abilitys on all the other archwings in the open worlds?! or host-migrations?!

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Sundjasksya
a conclusio was added

[DreisterDino]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Lost_Cartographer:

The real point to nerfing Itzal is so that people equipped with the Amesha, Odonata, or Elytron aren't absolutely left in the dust.  The Itzal is light years ahead of them in terms of speed, and that's the problem. 

I can partially understand that it is annoying for people to get left behind, but i think there is no way to solve that unless we make everything the same.

Like people said, if Itzal gets nerfed, VoidDash might be used more often (which is even MUCH more of a time investment for players to max out than getting Itzal), or utility frames will get used, also leaving people behind.

 

Do we want it to be like in Anthem where after a few seconds everyone left behind gets teleported? I guess no.

 

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Yagamilight123:

its just DE angry because they made a skate that nobody use and now they try to force it into players

it might play a role, who knows. But its no surprise...like OP said, there are so many flaws with the system,

and to max out a K-Drive you have to spend soo much time only to notice its still inferior. (never done it, knew it would be a waste of time)

 

But the biggest flaw is that they didnt allow the use of guns on the K-Drive.

Seriously, how in the world would that be OP? You can use guns in AW, freaking Mesa exists,

shooting while travelling on a Hoverboard would never be OP, but maybe fun enough to care for that thing.

 

Edit: Also, each Archwing has abilities, but K-Drives are just a bunch of mastery fodder items.

Give those things cool abilities, mounted guns, just anything that is useful and fun to use and people will play with it.

Edited April 6, 2019 by DreisterDino

[WhiteMarker]

I wonder, did you ever try to fly away from rockets? Why do you have to facetank them?

And DE wants to change Itzal, because people just rush through open worlds. DE doesn't want that. (Remember Coptering? DE didn't want people to mindlessly rush through things with broken abilities)

[Benour]

Just grab nova and portal around like a boss, this itzal nerf will solve exactly NOTHING, zero, nada. Will take me maybe 10 seconds more to get from point A to point B with nova instead of using itzal. Or you can even use operator for travel if you dont mind using few energy pads here and there (yeah i have few thousand of them crafted). Obviously zephyr can travel also very fast and so can few other frames but they are more niche for travel (hydroid, rhino, excal, titania with aug) so they going to nerf them also? Since im pretty sure even the niche travel frames can "outrun" kdrive like nothing. 

Somebody suggested 3 charges on itzal teleport with cooldown (idk 20 seconds?). Sounds good to me. 

Just my 2 cents, couldnt care less what they do with traveling really, im gonna "speedrun" bounties anyway. 

[(PSN)KresTias]

7 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

I wonder, did you ever try to fly away from rockets? Why do you have to facetank them?

And DE wants to change Itzal, because people just rush through open worlds. DE doesn't want that. (Remember Coptering? DE didn't want people to mindlessly rush through things with broken abilities)

DE wants us to waste our own time just for sake of backtracking? Nothing happens between point A and B.

Something like Plague star will be even more disgusting thn it is right now.

[Hayaies]

they could simply take away one of the hoverboard grabs and replace it with Shooting, look into allowing to use abilitys and buff the Speed mods for them and hoverboards would be hella apealing. the reason why they spoke on nerfing itzal is becuase somebody #*!%ing asked for hoverboard buffs! and they literaly answer was"no but we will nerf the better alternative you like, so the worse Option is less bad." can you be more tonedeaph in adressing something?

[taiiat]

so, i can get through this pretty quick(probably). the reason why people are using Blink (Itzal teleporting) is not because that's too good for some reason.
it's because all of the other mobility options, whether Archwing or K-Drive, do not offer any features to contrast with the one option.

only one Archwing is about Mobility, and Archwings CANNOT participate in Combat since literally every single Enemy has a personal SAM site in their pocket and there's emplaced AA around everywhere too. Amesha maybe if that invulnerability + Damage instance ignoring like Mesmer Skin will protect it from being shot down? haven't tried.

and even if you wouldn't get shot down every few seconds, how are you going to use an Archwing in Combat anyways?

• Itzal has Snap Freeze on Cosmic Crush, and yeah that's sortof useful (even though the Range nerfs for Landscapes makes it kinda hard to use that vs ground Enemies)
• Elytron.... doesn't do any Damage. non Archwing Enemies have much higher EHP in pretty much every possible situation, so how is Elytron going to do it's theme and be DPS. it just can't.
• Odonata can provide a decent Damage buff with Energy Shell to your ground Weapons, but there's plenty of Damage Buffs that a Player could apply and also have other Abilities too, while using their Warframe.
• Amesha has some pretty alright Support tools but.... just like basically every other Archwing Ability that uses Range in some way, it's been nerfed so much that it's hard to even use the Abilities outside of extremely niche situations. 

and K-Drives..... aren't built for being a transportation tool in the first place. they have one less Speed Tier than Archwings do, their Speed Mods calculate in a really broken way (seriously, why isn't Boosting a Multiplier to normal speed, if we get a Movement speed buff, we don't suddenly go slower when we press Sprint, so wtf) and are small in magnitude in the first place. the only thing about Hoverboards that is about moving fast at all, is one Spacekid Arcane which is a weird way to move faster.
they literally aren't made for moving quickly. so ofcourse when looking to move quickly, Players don't choose that. that's just duh.

 

so it all wraps up into one thing - that for Vehicles, only one Archwing provides ANYTHING USEFUL FOR MOBILITY AT ALL. all of the rest provide nothing for Mobility, so people don't use it for that. and they also provide little to nothing for Combat, so people don't use it for that.
this seems completely expected. this isn't even a """meta""" situation, it's that nothing else even competes for that in the first place.

 

so what is the solution? the solution is to have the other choices actually provide Mobility options in the first place.

• so why don't Hoverboards have more Mods, some being for Mobility (and fix their Sprint vs base problem, make it consistent with literally everything else in the game, please god). or more slottable Equipment on top of that. there's many systems that the game has (Mods of different types, Arcanes, you name it) that Hoverboards could take advantage of, even maybe all at once to give Players those kinds of options.
  • and why don't Hoverboards have Afterburners, when Archwings do.
• you can say the same for Archwings, but for them the biggest issue would be that Itzal is really the only relevant Archwing on Landscapes anyways (with Amesha an honorable mention for sortof trying to be useful). if they aren't going to also have Movement Abilities (i don't expect them to, though you could do that i guess), they have to compete by offering something else. instead of the NOTHING that they currently offer.

i can't re-iterate this enough - the reason why the one Archwing is popular, is because nothing else offers anything of use whatsoever to peoples' Gameplay. while sometimes outliers are spiking way up high and it's easy to just chop it down, this is a case where it's that everything else is effectively useless whether it's for the same purpose or a different purpose. there literally aren't any other choices. any particular Equipment naturally does this or that better generally, so if thing B doesn't beat thing A at __, it can offer __ instead as something different that you might want instead. but in this case, the other choices offer nothing.

and on a different hand, when you're going to play in an area for 1000 hours, you've already seen the pretty stuff along the way everywhere, you're just following your objectives, and they were to go to this place, so you go to that place.
nobody wants to just hold W and stare at their screen for an extra 30-60 seconds, while twiddling their thumbs. that's not making the game better, nor is it more enjoyable in the first place. you're not doing anything in that time span, you're just translating your position to a new zone. there's nothing to do until you get there, so you focus on getting there.
again, it isn't more entertaining in any way to spend more time just holding a button and doing nothing. 

 

i don't wanna sound like a jerk but, if you make Itzal Teleport slower, you won't see Players using Hoverboards  or other Archwings more. because they still offer absolutely nothing. this is a case of a lack of features, not any feature being 'too powerful'. there aren't any other features.

Edited April 6, 2019 by taiiat

[Drachnyn]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb WhiteMarker:

And DE wants to change Itzal, because people just rush through open worlds. DE doesn't want that.

Ther is nothing to do between two bounty points. Slowing down achieves nothing and Kdrives would still be worthless.

vor 23 Minuten schrieb WhiteMarker:

(Remember Coptering? DE didn't want people to mindlessly rush through things with broken abilities)

DE instead made the current Parkour system so we could still be fast but without having to pick one specific weapon.

[Artekkor]

2 минуты назад, Drachnyn сказал:

DE instead made the current Parkour system so we could still be fast but without having to pick one specific weapon.

And that's good. But i (who just chimed in) don't see how they could replace Itzal. What, give teleporting to everything? Remove teleport but buff boost on all vehicles? Let me remind you that speed on Kdrives is actually dangerous because you can run face-first into a wall with it.

So i honestly don't see what they can possibly do. I just don't. Whatever they do will have a negative, absolutely anything.

So the community will have to clench their buttholes one way or the other, so everyone better get ready for that.

[Katinka]

I'm thinking the next best option after Itzal Teleport would be Operator Void Dash, if you have Naramon and Zenurik Waybounds unlocked for increased Dash speed and a larger Energy pool.  In that case there is really no reason for K-Drives at all as the only thing they offer is speed and they can't compete with an ability you'll always have with you (once you've unbound those two nodes and can use them regardless of your preferred school).

[NoggDog117]

This is something I've thought about a bit. A few friends of mine only use the best means of doing something in Warframe, and Itzal is the only Archwing they consider using, and it's only because the teleport gets you moving faster. All abilities you can use on your archwing are not at all balanced for ground enemies, even on Itzal. As it stands, Plains/Vallis Archwing is uninteresting and only serves the purpose of travel speed due to low damage output, all the while we know what those Archwings could do on the actual Archwing missions with the same build. It is a system that can use a lot of work.

[Drachnyn]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Artekkor:

And that's good. But i (who just chimed in) don't see how they could replace Itzal. What, give teleporting to everything? Remove teleport but buff boost on all vehicles? Let me remind you that speed on Kdrives is actually dangerous because you can run face-first into a wall with it.

So i honestly don't see what they can possibly do. I just don't. Whatever they do will have a negative, absolutely anything.

So the community will have to clench their buttholes one way or the other, so everyone better get ready for that.

Kdrives would need a lot of work to be even considered. Falling off needs to be removed and the speed needs to be massively improved alongside handling of the board. Then the Archwing cancelling missiles need to be removed and the abilities of the other archwings need to be buffed aswell. 

The main problems are:

• DE has nerfed Skywing abilities to the point of being trash, so only the being-fast option remains.
• Kdrives are the worst mobility option out there with insane grind to get anything remotely fast, randomly falling off because of a weird hitbox and just being slower than everything else.

If they just nerf Blink literally nothing will change about how much the other archwings are used or how much kdrives are used because Itzal is still the fastest and no other archwing brings anything worth using to the open worlds.

[Jinzanami]

its not just scott dont be naive, you think he dropped that itzal nerf in a devstream out of nowhere ? for how many years do you think they know each other ? this idea had to be discuses  for months or years and scott was the perfect person to get the word out because hes a meme in this community on nerf matters, they're just testing the water.

and you can go to the plains/valleys right now and see for yourself how fun and amazing is to walk on foot or with kdrive to do bounty's, itzal blink just ease things up and DE dont like that from the look of it, they want us to spend more time playing walking simulator just so they have more current players in-game wasting they're time for absolutely nothing.

DE are hiding behind the beta tag so bad and its need to be stopped, they have no repsect for our time or money when it comes to they're bottom lines, and gotta stand up for ourselves.

[taiiat]

18 minutes ago, Katinka said:

I'm thinking the next best option after Itzal Teleport would be Operator Void Dash, if you have Naramon and Zenurik Waybounds unlocked for increased Dash speed and a larger Energy pool.  In that case there is really no reason for K-Drives at all as the only thing they offer is speed and they can't compete with an ability you'll always have with you (once you've unbound those two nodes and can use them regardless of your preferred school).

Void Dash is a high Mobility option, yeah. i was only referring to the two Vehicle types that we have, as those are the main 'competition' in any type of feature (vs using Itzal for Blink), not just Mobiilty. and well, they lack in offering any features, regardless of what they are.

Edited April 6, 2019 by taiiat

[Ssalem]

Both the Plains of Eidolon and especially the Orb of Vallis is just simply way to huge, and k-drives are too slow, we have timed missions to get to, spiders and eidolons to reach. Plus, everyone and their mother is equipped with anti-archwing missiles.

If you nerf Itzal, I'm just gonna take my max range/efficiency Nova and sh*t all over the Plains anyway, and get through it in 5 seconds flat.

The issue 👏isn't 👏 Itzal

Edited April 6, 2019 by Ssalem

[XenMaster]

Enemies has hitscan. There you go.

[WhiteMarker]

You know what's funny about these threads? At this point there are just a meme. So why would DE listen to you guys? óÒ

[stormy505]

I remember watching brozimes video about this. Where does it end? After they nerf itzal they will go after archwings as a whole, then mobility abilities, then operator, then bullet jumping. Cause, news flash DE, all of the above are faster then kdrive. 

[16Bitman]

Just keep nerfing everything until only Atlas with hobbled dragon key is left, then remove bullet jumps and sprinting.

[EvilChaosKnight]

1st. If we didn't have these f-ing tiny insta-death missiles going through protection abilities spammed by basically every ground enemy, there'd be a reason to use other archwings too for what they offer. A huge shocker! Let us use the damn archwings for actual missions and combat in open world, and suddenly speed is no longer the only factor which matters. And let us use our archguns (with Gravimag only I suppose) on open world archwings. Just sayin'

2nd. K-Drive is never going to be as good as operator mode with some waybounds, let alone flying in archwing, Zephyr, Nova and such. K-Drive is a ground crawler which doesn't even let you fight. It's basically a fun side-activity of "Lotus Hawk's Pro-Sk8er", nothing more. And considering that archwings in fact come later in the progression overall, IMO it's fine. Otherwise you might as well make an argument that AkLex Pr or AkStiletto Pr should be nerfed because they outperform AkLato and Mk1 Braton.

Edited April 6, 2019 by EvilChaosKnight