Aldain Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I liken it to fixing a boat with Flex Tape, it might work, but I would rather just use a boat that didn't need flex tape to float. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_Grenabe Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) I just cleared out a lich I'd been ignoring, and was reminded of what a painful drag it is. Unfortunately, while the changes DE is bringing are absolutely essential changes, they don't appear to address the tedium and isolation of the lich hunt. It's largely going to be the same as it ever was. Avoiding a cheap death, deterministic upgrading, and knowing the weapon up front is great. However, those things strike me as low-hanging fruit--the easy fixes on the list of player concerns. There's a bigger problem in the system. Edited February 2, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CopperBezel Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said: liches are not a content island, change my mind an island means its not connected to the rest of the game, when clearly this is Valid point, I fell into the tug of the buzzword there. Mechanically it's playing high-level Grineer versions of star map missions and using items we get from kuva siphons and fissures (where, despite the "Requiem" name, only the uncommon drops are lich-related, all other rewards are universal) to fight a boss and get a shiny weapon we can use in regular content and exactly the same as anything else (or random appearances from a spectre in normal missions, or uh, normal plat in the trade chat I guess), while having a lich on your map means loot penalties in unrelated missions until you take care of them. They're not meaningfully connected to other lore, but they're intimately meshed into regular content. Edited February 2, 2020 by CopperBezel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 hours ago, (PS4)Hooligantuan said: Overall I don't care for the Parazon at all, from its utility to its model. Well, especially its model. It's such a chunky thing. There's nothing sleek and Warframey about it. Mostly agree. I like how they now have a dedicated "hacking" section where you can put your hacking mods because there's no way we were gunna bother wasting mod slots on our Warframe for them, but that's about it. The design is so hit-or-miss, I like the tapered rapier-like point but I don't like the hilt at all, it's just an obvious attempt to cram more Lotus symbol motifs into the game, so the Parazon only looks cool when it's hanging from a wire during the "Covert/Vanquish" screen (combined with the electronic slithering sound effect) Thankfully the existing melee facestabs and backstabs are still in the game, they didn't try to push the "new hotness" too badly 3 hours ago, (PS4)Hooligantuan said: I like the Liches. They prey upon one of the strongest features of the game, that often loses its shine over time - The Stalker. Remember early on, how weirdly exciting it was when this guy just showed up to hunt you down? As you played on and understood him more, that excitement wore out a bit, especially during that period you were trying to collect all of his weapons and the RNG was being uncooperative. But those Liches, they're like a refined, optional Stalker system. They boost the lore of the Grineer and the Queens, too. They carry weapons worth pursuing. They're procedurally generated. They include the helmet of the Warframe that killed them in their design. There are a lot of great ideas hung onto these Liches and they - even if just for now - remind me of the tension of being targeted. Stalker was already ruined when they added Shadow Stalker. An assassin with silent weapons who can pop in and out of invisibility is scary. Pyramid Head might be scary in Silent Hill 2 but he sure isn't scary in Warframe. But that's what DE turned Stalker into, a slow chunky tank who telegraphs everything he's doing a good hour before it can ever damage you, so you have no reason to fear him whatsoever. Liches aren't scary either, but that's only because we see too much of them rather than a fault of their mechanics. Liches are big tanks that actually tower over us rather than a normal Warframe with drag fins for shoulderpads like that will somehow scare us. And they're mostly slow but are capable of bursts of speed to keep us on our toes. Liches have some actual oomph to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_The_F00l Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I feel better about it. We can finally have a proper slave trade simulator where even the weakest slaves have some value. On a serious note: The grind will be less painful as its not to just get rid of the current lich but to actually want the weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myscho Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Only positive is that we can see weapon their drop, nothing else, murmurs are still grindy af Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomFruit Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Well, if the changes go through, they'll be almost at the state that they should have been on release. They've still got the problem that requiem mods run out of batteries, that there's zero explanation or lore tying any of this together and that T5 relics were pointless from the start (hand the mods out in a quest which explains things). My perspective? They shoved it out the door in a blatantly unfinished state covered in piles of bullS#&$ and let it sit there, festering, for a quarter of a year. It's going to be a very long time before I even think of looking at it - if I ever do in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I'll be happy knowing that I can pick and choose which Larvlings to go for rather than just rolling the dice every time, though i'll still just be going for the weapons mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreades Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Do they still have that annoying "I have one node on this planet so I'm going to steal your stuff on every other node!" mechanic? As far as I can tell the answer is yes and frankly hecc that noise, I still won't bother with them until/unless I'm in a place where I feel like taking a Lich in one sitting. Serious talk making them as annoying as possible in the attempt to make the mechanic endearing..... just makes it annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthraxicus Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 DE is attacking the wrong problem by removing the death on failed attempts. Getting randomly killed by the Liches for not guessing correctly a random set of random mods is not the major problem. The fact that the Liches require you to fail at guessing random mods in order to kill you, completely kills the idea of having a nemesis system. The murmur grind is boring and time consuming, plus the fact that it is completely detached from the rest of the game makes its problems even more glaring. The entire Kuva Lich system serves no purpose whatsover in the current state other than being a gimmick to acquire some old existing weapons with different stats. It is just that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesthier Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 13 hours ago, NigglesAU said: How do people feel about Liches now with changes in the works? Whelmed? I mean they were changes in the right direction but to me liches are still... Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)OneChicago51 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I want to get all the weapons at maximum bonus so i am very happy. Especially since i have not once had a bonus over 34%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Good changes so I'll get back to getting the weapons I want and max their element. So far aiming for Karak, Ogris, Tupac, Quartakk, Kohm and Brakk as keepers, then the rest will just be picked up and leveled for mastery. Will test the coming 3 weapons since the bow is new and I havent tried the other two yet, might keep one of those aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_Grenabe Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 25 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: Good changes so I'll get back to getting the weapons I want and max their element. So far aiming for Karak, Ogris, Tupac, Quartakk, Kohm and Brakk as keepers, then the rest will just be picked up and leveled for mastery. Will test the coming 3 weapons since the bow is new and I havent tried the other two yet, might keep one of those aswell. Yeah, I may grit my teeth and do a few more so I can boost my Karak, Kohm, and Quartakk. The quartakk doesn't need it (56% already) but, y'know, "Urge to Perfect: Rising." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said: Yeah, I may grit my teeth and do a few more so I can boost my Karak, Kohm, and Quartakk. The quartakk doesn't need it (56% already) but, y'know, "Urge to Perfect: Rising." I'm still trying to decide which element I'm going to get for a Kohm when I get one. I'll definently be running viral+rad since it is a slash based status weapon, just not sure if I'm gonna go rad, heat or toxin as the kuva damage bonus. I'm thinking heat because that would cover me both with and without a riven. Since if I do find a riven I'd likely try and get heat+sc so I can skip the 60/60 electric mod and rely on viral+heat with heat proccing more often since it can stack the damage portion. And it would give me the option to go with sc+other stats on a riven aswell while keeping viral+heat. Edited February 2, 2020 by SneakyErvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvenir Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) They addressed the grind your choosing what you want to grind for which in my opinion was placating a community at the boiling point. (gradual enhancement via valence transfer was a good idea, but larva's actually having a weapon pic appear above their head total "I'm sorry please forgive us") It doesn't change the fact that base missions are unrewarding (this is an entirely different discussion on revamping missions and their structure), non-void missions rarely drop relics or anything remotely rewarding for doing level 40-100 content. (why do you think people enjoy Requiem Kuva survival, you get 3 rewards kuva, cracked relics, and void reactant). Overall fighting a Kuva Lich to rank 5 is unrewarding, rewarding content is a Kuva Lich's rank being a multiplier for reward returns and "if a lich dominated a system for any amount of time" it's gathered resources. Kuva (more for end game players), credits, endo for beginner to mid level players and maybe even something like a reputation/reward system involving Palladino. Edited February 2, 2020 by Corvenir forgot a word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thegarada Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 17 hours ago, NigglesAU said: For me - more likely to try again. To me will likely be more people to random with - rank 5 is hard to kill for myself. Not really fussed about valance transfer altho knowing which larvaling to kill (for bonus etc) handy... Honestly, if level 5 is hard to kill, the kuva lich system is not meant for your current gear. I find level 5 to be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Fluffins Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 All good fixes, I am happy that Liches will see some improvements, I was afraid that they will stay in the same spot for a long time. However, these changes do not fix my personal main gripe with the system - that this is essentially still a gun farm, not a nemesis system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOOMPATRIOT Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Not playing it since release, not playing it now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falseliberty Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 The Problem I have with Lichs are is that it's a separate thing. Why can't he invade you multiple times during a relic run? or a defense run. or while the stalker is there How about sorties. Why is he not boarding your railjack? Lichs are are not striking fear into ya. Dam things should be like Mr. X from resident evil 2. You could be doing a rescue and you open the wrong cell and it's like "SUP BIT** ITS ME!" Also the Murmor system or whatever is boring. I thought it would be a much more interesting. For example you track down some officers and they drop pieces of a map you put together. Then board your railjack and track down the higher ups with the map for even more clues etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvisCaedo Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Good improvements to parts of the grind aspect and potential worthless rewards, except there still will not be anything fun about the lich system in terms of gameplay. So I can't say I'm feeling particularly interested in doing one again! Maybe I'll try to get the bow, or maybe even just grinding the larvalings for the one in sixteen chance of it will sound too tedious for me to want to bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbynaru Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I dunno, are they gonna be integrated in the main game or are you still supposed to hunt them down? Cause if it's the letter, I still don't give a f*ck. They need integration in the main game (both the Liches and the murmur farm), and we need to have more than one Lich active that can ambush us at a time, so that they have more of a personality/reason to exist than just be a weapons farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leavith Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I say people just like to cry about leeches. If they are a challenge you got people saying they to hard... If is RNG you got people saying is unfair If stuff gets remove you got people complaining that the only reason it even work is because of what got removed. A little less spoiled milk would be nice here in this thread. If you really feel strongly about stuff like this besides posting here go share it in feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seprent Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 16 hours ago, 844448 said: Does that change my current goal of converting as many female lich as possible? No? Then I don't have any feeling about it *me grabbing every lich that has a close combat/explosive weapons for my railjack crew* Nope not really for all it will do for me is speed up my acquiring of a railjack crew that will make the grineer regret boarding as their all radiation lichs so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0Despair0o Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I always wanted the Karak and Ayanga. I got the Ayanga but other than that I only got disappointment out of it. I refused to make a new Lich because I don't want to risk getting stuck with another failure. So now I'll be able to get the Karak and that fancy Bow and be able to die in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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