Riven Disposition Procedure for New Weapons

[Crevab]

30 minutes ago, Xardis said:

Pls, stop basing disposition changes on purely popularity.

Your wish was granted more than a year ago

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

That's pretty awful.

Now we gotta wait 6 months to find out the real disposition of a weapon...

6 whole months... jc

[crimsonspartan1]

Slightly off-topic, but will kitgun rivens be useable on both primaries and secondaries, or will there be separate rivens for both?

The answer might be obvious, but i wanna make sure. Got a riven for all 4 chambers that i’m hoping to use on the new primary kitguns but if there are separate rivens for primary kitguns then that’d be somewhat annoying 

[(NSW)Flutterdrive]

how about changes to how riven stats work in general? because wasting 200000 kuva on one riven just to get #*!% all is just discouraging... 

[Asdryu]

This would be decent if the changes to dispositions happened somewhat regularly and, most importantly, methodically, rather than just once or twice per year.

Some changes just make me wanna shout "why" at the top of my lungs

[Dishonored]

sound good
but yeah having to wait for 3 month for the dispo change
after the weapon release is pretty long 

[Captain_Rocket505]

I'm not really sure the point of this, if primaries are meant to be better than secondaries then why not make the primary kitgun disposition equal too or slightly higher than the secondary one?

[Tyreaus]

59 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

This change leads us directly to another common piece of player feedback: weapons with very low dispositions are sometimes not worth equipping unless you get a very good roll, and if a weapon is way off of where it should be disposition-wise, it can take several waves of changes for it to reach an appropriate power level. 

Just to throw something out there: might it help to have Riven stats calculated after other mods, then rebalanced accordingly?

Rivens have a problem with fighting other mods, like 0.5 disposition rivens not reaching dual stat mod levels, and Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds overshadowing even higher-tier crit and status Rivens. It's the sort of problem that could be made worse if future changes to regular mods ever arise. But if Rivens adjust stats after mods, then they work with those mods, which opens up a pretty sizable breadth of what does work.

Just saying that, if there are complaints on some Rivens not being worth equipping, it might help to re-think how Riven stats are calculated. You could end up with some interesting combinations!

[Dark_Lugia]

vor einer Stunde schrieb [DE]Connor:

When we introduced separate dispositions for each weapon variant back in November 2019

I still strongly dislike this, since it makes some base weapons better than its prime version....

[MetalGrayFox]

57 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

This change leads us directly to another common piece of player feedback: weapons with very low dispositions are sometimes not worth equipping unless you get a very good roll, and if a weapon is way off of where it should be disposition-wise, it can take several waves of changes for it to reach an appropriate power level. 

I echo the sentiments expressed by people before me that dispo should not be based on useage. Can I get a clear reason for why rivens exist? Are they meant to be a band-aid mod for lesser used weapons? Or are they meant to be for those players who don't really have much else power to farm so rivens becomes that endless grind loop? Maybe I missed the memo on it so feel free to educate me.

If it is the 1st (band-aid mod), the dispo range needs a review, since even at highest dispo a lot of those weps are not really worth using (your stats will confirm this I am sure).

If it is meant to be the late-game grind for power on weps, then the lowest dispo needs a buff. As an example, an Ignis Wraith riven can roll with elemental damage and status chance along with a negative stat. With this type of roll, the 2 positives on the riven may barely be numbers above a regular dual stat elemental mod (7 drain btw). The stats could even be lower than a dual stat mod, AND you have a negative. For 18 drain.
I think that highlights how ridiculous the system is. Rivens need a massive overhaul and I am sorry to say Chief but these small changes are not it, not even close. Back to the drawing board please.

[-AncientWarrior-]

ok so basically the rivens will be crap useless to any new weapons .. got it.. so that removes kuva hunting for us.. hmmm that takes out arbitration, kuva requiem survival, kuva survival .. that leaves us what to do - codex scanning again - ? 

[Madway7]

1 hour ago, [DE]Connor said:

In order to prevent this situation, we will be changing this policy: going forward, all new weapons will be released with the minimum Riven disposition of 0.5. For The Deadlock Protocol, this includes the dispositions on newly added primary kitguns, in addition to regular weapons (secondary kitgun dispositions will remain as-is.)

Why not review your policy on only doing minor dispo changes instead?

Then when the dispo changes happen the weapon will get a (hopefully) appropriate dispo right away instead of this "we'll change dispo a little at a time" thing.

[_Illindi_]

A better outset possibly. If anything the so called 'god' tier rivens will matter but not a whole lot to most. Essentially your are ridding your self slowly of the system meant to bring 'bad' weapons up and 'good' weapons down. Considering how everything is the same with melee, we have 2 builds if the weapons has the stats for one or both really and considering how any primary and secondary weapons are basically relegated to 1 build... Yeah sure? It's not like it's going to bring out diverse builds anyway.

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, (PS4)NotNidus said:

I feel this is a terrible choice.

It basically means that good popular weapons will never have the chance to use a good riven as they will stay 0.5 forever.

Hence they never get a nerf either.

44 minutes ago, Caliboom said:

So that means we have to wait a literal year for the disposition of a new weapon that's weak to get boosted beyond 1.0? Setting the disposition of new weapons at 0.5 will not work unless you update dispositions more often, maybe on a monthly basis.

 

1 hour ago, [DE]Connor said:

Prime Access balance passes will increase dispositions on newer weapons by larger values, when warranted.

This means a weak new weapon can go from 0.5 to 1.5 in 3 months. Buffs no longer follow the 0.2 pip rule, only nerfs.

[RoachyToasty]

Hey you know those people who have Rivens for weapons waiting for a variant?

[DrivaMain]

Fine, but can you reduce the dispo changes interval from 1 Prime Access to once every month? It will allow those unpopular weapons to rise up in the META quickly. Because this change is only a long time waiting game.

[Jarriaga]

11 minutes ago, MetalGrayFox said:

I echo the sentiments expressed by people before me that dispo should not be based on useage.

They are not based on popularity as of April 2019. 

I think DE needs to pin that post. It's been way too long for that misconception to still float around as often as it does.

[Sean]

I swear.... each riven change only seems to reinforce that you guys don't know what to do regarding rivens.
 

It was already a poor move to split up the variants of weapons to having different dispositions, but to now start things at 0.5 instead of 1.0?

...just really... why? It's bad enough that the actual riven disposition isn't shown in-game, but all of these other changes have only worsened them as a whole.

[AR3E]

It feels like we in some stupid show about trying to balance unbalanced game. Each new method should be worse and ridiculous.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

Keep in mind that it wasn't the players that created the weapons, you guys decided to introduce powerfull weapons on your own so that kuva liches were appealing and now you're fixing a mistake. It's fine but that wording gave me the impression that things just went outside your control when it is DE that makes the game

A single mod is not game changing, you can buff or nerf all the stats it won't make a difference.
A riven can be viewed as an all glorious thing that will certainly make you better, but the reality is that it's only a tiny fraction of the equation, you know this with catchmoon, because you kept changing the riven disposition and players kept playing as normal.

I understand the idea, but 0.5 at the start and then a 1.0 or more for certain weapons (like primary kitguns) will not be "game changing", it's a flashy statement for newer players but for me personally means very litle.

I support the decision, to me that change makes litle difference and it is indeed more conservative to avoid backlash from the players that kill enemies in the same amount of time after a disposition nerf (aka a change happened but in reality nothing changed).

 

You shouldn't only focus on riven disposition changes, if you guys read the forums, you'll see players adressing weapons, if they are to powerfull (no, not the bramma) or if they are mechanically weak and a trend you guys often do is to leave things, months at a time, in the same state and then when a prime access lands, the changes happen all at once.

An example was dethcube prime, as soon the prime access landed, numerous changes were made to dethcube, this entire mentality of buffing when you need to sell something and nerfs when things are no longer being aquired by the masses gives a bad taste in general, and you risk the same issue with primary kitguns, which i believe will be powerfull so that players even consider the investment, but for how long will that last until changes happen.

I also note, from my own personal experience that catchmoon isn't being used as often as before, yet it's taking a long time to even apply a single disposition chage to the riven

 

Overall, i apreciate the changes, but be carefull nontheless, don't think that just because you implement these changes that backlash will cease to happen and that you can go all in.

Very good points Kireeek

[TheLordOmega2]

Well that sounds bad.

First, it kills "new weapon hype", since (unless one of the new weapons is as broken as the Bramma) the disposition will be so low  being lucky enough to get a riven for one will be worthless, both in value and FUN. (and if the weapon is broken, a gutted dispo will not make it any less OP, as we've seen.)

Also, the separate dispo for variants is counter-intuitive, inconsistent and pretty bad overall (i have no reason to "upgrade" my beloved Aksomati to the prime version with the gutted dispo, for example, even if the prime variant is supposed to be better.), and rivens never were never "game changing" in the first place. The issue is that variants and rivens occupy the same core function of making a weapon that's fun but not powerful actually worth using, but seeing the stats of your riven change from one variant to the next really feels more like a kick to the shin than any kind of balance.

 

And keep in mind that kuva weapons were supposed to be endgame, so balancing them like other weapons is counterproductive.

[BladesStorm]

looks good, this could be the first step to regulate excesive prices of rivens in game, riven market in game is cancerous, please take a look. About rivens pls check RNG numbers , lot of ppl grind kuva and invest it on rivens and get nothing, this is maybe the reason of crazy/insane prices for one mod. 

Thanks for the improvement. keep going and stay safe

 

[Makunogo]

yass

[TheLordOmega2]

il y a 40 minutes, Tyreaus a dit :

Just to throw something out there: might it help to have Riven stats calculated after other mods, then rebalanced accordingly?

Rivens have a problem with fighting other mods, like 0.5 disposition rivens not reaching dual stat mod levels, and Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds overshadowing even higher-tier crit and status Rivens. It's the sort of problem that could be made worse if future changes to regular mods ever arise. But if Rivens adjust stats after mods, then they work with those mods, which opens up a pretty sizable breadth of what does work.

Just saying that, if there are complaints on some Rivens not being worth equipping, it might help to re-think how Riven stats are calculated. You could end up with some interesting combinations!

Having rivens be additive (and apply before other mods) would be a real game changer, and would probably achieve their original goal of making every weapon viable, but that's an huge can of worms.

[Voltage]

Just remove Disposition already. Every change DE makes to Disposition as a mechanic or Dispositions themselves will always be overall negative for the game. If you want players to have a more balanced arsenal with power, then stop releasing weapons like Kuva Bramma.