The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[iSiawPrime]

Will DE ignore 180+ pages on this thread like they did with Xoris 55+? My bet is they’ll completely ignore it, unless it’s nerf feedback.

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

Will DE ignore 180+ pages on this thread like they did with Xoris 55+? My bet is they’ll completely ignore it, unless it’s nerf feedback.

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix]

Reminder to switch Roar to Charge. Ty

[Nox_Terminus]

3 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

You know what?

Let's buff everything to roar level!

"The Origin System is ever-changing. Our enemies grow more stressful by the day. It is time to ease the burden of challenge. Forget what you have learned. Relax. To the victor, my esteem... and the spoils. I will be waiting. Will you walk the Noodle Path?"

 

DE, please just implement another star chart variant and multiply all skill numbers by 2, nono, by 5....ah damn by 10!
Doesn't matter it's PvE-game, does it?
Also, according to forum posters that isn't power creep and if it is power creep, then we learned that power creep is thing we should embrace, right? 
 

(Sorry, just my passive-aggressive reply to those "I leave WF forever!!" - statements.)

You don't need to buff everything up to Roar's level, you just have to make them actually useful. If it isn't possible to fix them they should be replaced with another ability from that Warframe.

More damage is a boring option, and in most cases its not even necessary.

Utility, mobility, support, these are the kinds of abilities that people want to be able to add to their warframes, the issue is DE chose some of the worst options of those types.

[-Augustus-]

3 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

The question though, if the original post had these abilities with already reduced value and MR 8 for the system, would anyone even be complaining now?

I would be with respect to the ability values, though they'd at least have shown more foresight by taking that approach. It's hard to claim Roar, War Cry, etc. would be gamebreaking when builds solely dedicated to these abilities are already able to buff an entire squad. I also find it unlikely anyone would stop playing Rhino or Valkyr or Wukong or Nidus or Mirage just because these specific abilities are available elsewhere: each has sufficient synergy with other abilities to keep me playing the frame itself (though admittedly Valk is a close call since the Hysteria nerfs). So, literally the only reason to nerf these things at all is a petty sense of 'well, we wouldn't want anyone enjoying this too much.' And the less they nerf them, the more the question is why s$#! on them at all.

 

I think the MR change is hilarious in light of DE's original statements, but I also don't have any paternalistic reason to protect MR 8s from themselves. If DE wants to give MR 8s the chance to burn resources and grind up frames, I really could not care less.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Thiadon:

Which makes it inferior to Eclipse which you get the full damage reduction benefit constantly without needing to use a mod. The mod for Null Star should cause the orbs to launch and do damage (percentage of health-based again to make it scalable). Recasting without the mod just refreshes the defense. The problem is that without molecular prime, and without the mod, there is currently no way to keep the defense buff up. Even with this change, Eclipse is still comparatively better because stepping into a different light instantly changes it to a damage increase.

Yeah, except Null Star needs only duration (and preferably negative range) while Eclipse needs strength and duration which makes both interesting for two different types of builds which don't even make sense an all or the same frames to begin with without butchering or being useless for the rest of their kit and/or stats. Which is what very few people also pointed out early on about these and other "OP"  abilities on the list that quite a few people complained about.

Even Inaros would have suddenly to mod strength and duration in order to decently run Roar or Eclipse resulting in less defensive stats and range which is one of the better things to mod on him aside from defense stacking. At which point one would have to ask themselves: "Do I really want to put Roar or Eclipse on Inaros? I might as well just play Rhino whose kit supports the needed stats better and is probably tankier anyways at that point." and then you look for something else. That's a common case once you actually check if your frame of choice can even properly run these "OP" abilities you intend to put on it. Some can, but some kind of can't or demand at least a compromise to be made in how you have to build for it.

Energy economy on frames to even be able incorporate some of the abilities into their playstyle is a whole topic too. Suddenly you need to adjust that too to be able to maintain Roar or Eclipse, because otherwise what's the point if you struggle to cast your abilities. A pretty common high strength, decent duration, negative efficiency Wisp comes to mind.

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

On 2020-08-12 at 12:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

THE HELMINTH: DEV WORKSHOP.

Tenno the time has come for our comprehensive Dev Workshop on The Helminth System (formerly known as ‘Helminth Chrysalis System, we reduced the name length for ‘Mouth’feel)! This Dev Workshop is subject to change, but here is everything you need to know about THE HELMINTH!

We debuted this system at TennoCon 2020 - rewatch here:

https://youtu.be/KoKO1nAk0MQ?t=1693

The Helminth System is an expansion of the Helminth room on your Orbiter - you may only know this room as an infested space that allows you to remove the Helminth Cyst. With the ‘Heart of Deimos’ Update, that’s all changing. The Helminth system enables you to customize your Warframes by infusing new Abilities in place of existing Abilities.

How does it work?
To participate in the Helminth, you must obtain the ‘Helminth Segment’. This is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate and is then installed on your Orbiter in the Helminth Room to begin your Helminth journey!

Once ready, there are 2 key things this System offers:

- You can replace 1 Ability per Warframe.
- Every Warframe can be Subsumed to permanently provide 1 specific Ability to Helminth.


Who is this for?
We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth.


What are Resources / Secretions?
Virtually every Resource you’ve ever earned can be fed to Helminth - your stockpiles have a new home! This Feeding creates SECRETIONS, which allow you to utilize the Helminth for Ability customization.
Helminth has a diverse appetite - make sure you feed Helminth Resources they want to eat to get the best Secretion results! Your choices on what you’ve fed Helminth will determine its willingness to reward secretions - change it up for best results!
 

Permanent?
Infused Abilities are removable with the click of a button - they will stay within a given Warframe as long as you decide you want it!

Subsuming a Warframe is permanent  - only Subsume Warframes you are sure you do not want to play with. You can always re-earn or re-buy a subsumed Warframe.

 

Do Configurations matter?
You can deeply customize by only replacing Abilities on certain Configurations, as seen in the Demo! But we would like to expand this further to demonstrate just how deep you can go.

You can have 1 different Ability infused PER config!

So if you have Excalibur in the chair - you could put Shock on Configuration A, Molt on Configuration B, and Firewalker on Configuration C!

For example, if you wanted Shock applied to Excalibur on Configuration A but wanted Configuration B and Configuration C to stay default with Slash Dash, you can do so!

 

What does Ranking Helminth do?
As you feed and use the Helminth system, you will rank up! Each Rank unlocks something different - from a new power, to more Subsume Slots (max Rank Helminth = unlimited Subsume Slots), make sure you progress through the Ranks by regularly Feeding Helminth, Subsuming, and Infusing your Warframes! 

What are the Helminth Abilities?
Helminth Provides unique abilities of their own - these are subject to change before launch, but here is the current list:
 

"EMPOWER"

"Increase the power strength of your next ability."
 

“ENERGY MUNITIONS"

"Imbue your weapons with ammo efficiency."
 

"INFESTED MOBILITY"

"Increase your sprint and parkour speed."
 

"MARKED FOR DEATH"

“Stun an enemy, next damage you deal to it, will be dealt to all enemies around it."
 

"REBUILD SHIELDS"

"Instantly restore shields."
 

"PERSPICACITY"

"Your next hack will be automatic."
 

"COMPANION HEAL"

"Heal your companion and call it to your side."
 

"EXPEDITE SUFFERING"

"Hit enemies in a cone, affected enemies will have their Bleed and Toxin status removed and their remaining damage dealt in a burst."


What is Infusion?
Infusion is the process of injecting a Warframe with an Ability - whether it be one of Helminth’s own, or another Warframes. Every Warframe can receive 1 Infused ability at a time in any Ability slot (i.e you could place Shock on any of the 4 Ability slots). 

 

What is Subsuming? 
In addition to Helminth’s own Abilities, you can Subsume a Warframe to obtain 1 specific Ability permanently in Helminth’s memory (list below). We do not allow the Subsuming of any Prime Warframes, but you can Infuse Abilities on Prime Warframes! 

Subsuming is the act of permanently providing a base Warframe into the Helminth’s biology. 1 Warframe can be subsumed every 23 hours. The Warframe can be any Rank. 

What Abilities are earned on Subsuming a Warframe?

The following table outlines the current Ability a given Warframe will provide on the Subsume action. This is subject to change before launch. 

WARFRAME	ABILITY	AUGMENT	DEV NOTES
Ash	Shuriken	Seeking Shuriken
Atlas	Petrify	Ore Gaze	We will not create Rubble.
Banshee	Silence	Savage Silence
Baruuk	Lull	Endless Lullaby
Chroma	Elemental Ward	Everlasting Ward
Ember	Fire Blast	Healing Flame
Equinox	Rest & Rage	Calm & Frenzy	We will use Rest or Rage depending on your Energy Colour.
Excalibur	Radial Blind	Radiant Finish
Frost	Ice Wave	Ice Wave Impede
Gara	Spectrorage	Spectrosiphon
Garuda	Blood Altar	n/a
Gauss	Thermal Sunder	n/a
Grendel	Nourish	n/a	Keeps the heal and give Nourish Strike only.
Harrow	Condemn	Tribunal
Hildryn	Pillage	Blazing Pillage	Drains 50 Energy instead of 50 Shield.
Hydroid	Tempest Barrage	Corroding Barrage
Inaros	Desiccation	Desiccation’s Curse
Ivara	Quiver	Empowered Quiver	Tap Cloak, Hold Noise. Augment only affects Cloak and Dashwire.
Khora	Ensnare	n/a
Limbo	Banish	Rift Haven	Base Ability Change: Add ‘Cancel ability on Hold’ to let enemies out of Rift.
Loki	Decoy	Savior Decoy
Mag	Pull	Greedy Pull
Mesa	Shooting Gallery	Muzzle Flash
Mirage	Eclipse	Total Eclipse
Nekros	Terrify	Creeping Terrify
Nezha	Fire Walker	Pyroclastic Flow
Nidus	Larva	Larva Burst
Nova	Null Star	Neutron Star
Nyx	Mind Control	Mind Freak
Oberon	Smite	Smite Infusion
Octavia	Resonator	Conductor
Protea	Dispensary	n/a
Revenant	Reave	Blinding Reave
Rhino	Roar	Piercing Roar
Saryn	Molt	Regen Molt
Titania	Spellbind	Spellbound Harvest
Trinity	Well Of Life	Pool of Life	Base Ability Buffed - Now does small amount of heal over time over a large range. If you hit the enemy, a % of the damage dealt gets converted into AoE heal.
Valkyr	Warcry	Eternal War
Vauban	Tesla Nervos	Tesla Bank
Volt	Shock	Shock Trooper
Wisp	Breach Surge	n/a
Wukong	Defy	n/a
Xaku	Xata’s Whisper	n/a
Zephyr	Airburst	n/a	Base Ability Buffed - now has a HOLD or TAP functionality. HOLD to receive original functionality. TAP to suck enemies in a wind Vortex.

What are my safeguards?

Since you can remove an Ability at any time with the click of a button, you’ll be able to safely experiment with many creative combinations.

For example, if you replace Grendel’s ‘1’, your kit doesn’t really work! If you change around or re-assign Abilities already assigned to Railjack Tactical use, you simply may not have one, or have a new one in its place! If you put Hildryn’s PIllage on Inaros, you don’t get Shields, but you do get diminished Armor/Shields on enemies on cast.

It’s all up to you - have fun experimenting, Tenno!

What about Damage buffing Abilities?

As you can see, we have two Abilities that increase damage: Mirage’s Eclipse, and Rhino’s Roar. We are creating a special case for these Abilities when infused on Warframes with similar Abilities (i.e Chroma, Mirage, Rhino, Octavia). When you infuse these, you will receive a prompt that you can only have 1 Damage Buffing ability at a time, and thus you are limited to replacing said ability type. Which is to say - Damage Buffing abilities can only be swapped with Damage Buffing Abilities on Warframes that already have them. However, that limitation does not apply to the other 30+ Warframes. 

 

What exactly is going on here with the Warframe Subsuming?

Warframes that are Subsumed join the Helminth in an eternal bond. They will live on in a Lotus flower that matches the colours of the Subsumed Warframe, as a permanent honor. See below for an example of the Helminth garden after 5 Subsumes:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Is ‘Helminth’ a permanent name?

Don’t like it? You can rename your Helminth at any time!

Is Helminth a Cat or Dog ‘Person’?

Well, you’ll find out… 

 

Thank you very much for reading our Dev Workshop on the upcoming Helminth Feature - see you in game on August 25 on all platforms!  

======================

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

That’s all for now!

Wow! You didnt even let the release drop before snatching something away from the players. Way to kill enthusiasm about a game expansion! I will open up The new region to get my arbitration access back and I will oprn it in Steel Path for the tropy and I will max rank the new syndicate but I no longer have any desire to use the Helminth system. What is the point? anything that becomes "too popular" will just get eviscerated. Well, I can now save all those resources I was going to use to build new copies of base frames. Thank you for that much. Just as a By the way, MR15 was not too high. Stop caving in to the whiners. Let a new system play before nuking it into the ground. Judging from recent actions by DE, I will now wait about 3 months after any expansion drops before bothering with it. If at all. If there was any doubt about this release, you would have been better off to have reached these decisions prior to ever releasing the workshop notes. You caved to whiners who had not even played your new system. This is a terrible trend. It shows poor judgement and zero strength in your convictions. The MR15 requirement was not forcing anyone to do anything. You dont want to grind enought to reach 15? fine, plenty of areas in the game you can play without that. Extremely disappointed in this decision. 

[Xepthrichros]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Sure. 

And hypothetically speaking, what will you do if you don't succeed in taking the big bad warframe down?

Perhaps you fail to understand what part of the equation you stand on. I am trying to save Warframe. There have been press releases that show their profits aren't as good as their investors would like, and hence talks of selling off. If listening to you was such a marvelous success, why do such press releases exist? 

[iSiawPrime]

5 minutes ago, Nox_Terminus said:

More damage is a boring option, and in most cases its not even necessary.

This^^
One shotting a low lv enemy with 10k damage vs 20k damage won’t make a difference.

And btw Roar isn’t the most powerful damage ability in the list but the most versatile ( Xoris flashbacks anyone?)

[-SicMundusCreatusEst-]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

Reminder to switch Roar to Charge. Ty

And in which way would be useful for the game? add charge instead of roar is like not adding any rhino's ability at all, no one would use that ability.

[vanaukas]

5 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

Perhaps you fail to understand what part of the equation you stand on. I am trying to save Warframe. There have been press releases that show their profits aren't as good as their investors would like, and hence talks of selling off. If listening to you was such a marvelous success, why do such press releases exist? 

Mesianic delusions at their finest. Also, those aren't press releases and also aren't made by DE. Was a document made by Leyou and was for their shareholders, not press.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

Perhaps you fail to understand what part of the equation you stand on. I am trying to save Warframe. There have been press releases that show their profits aren't as good as their investors would like, and hence talks of selling off. If listening to you was such a marvelous success, why do such press releases exist? 

Do you work for DE? Do you work for the media? Do you have decades of experience in the gaming industry? Or are you really just randomly suggesting the game is gonna die because they won't let you have a strong Roar?

[(PSN)kfrancis902]

17 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Honestly, I have no clue why it even exist. It never meant anything, yet some people cling to it as if it does. "I have a higher number than those peasants. I MUST HAVE NICE THINGS AND THEY DO NOT." Not by earning through game play, but by artificial lock by a number that rarely represent player experience and/or power, and you only gain progress through it by running a grind bot of junk. Totally legit. 

And that's why Warframe will continue to go down because of no real progression. Your are proving my point

[OniDax]

54 minutes ago, Thiadon said:

Please do not nerf abilities. We can only equip 1 per frame, and only 1 damage increase per frame, that's restriction enough to maintain balance. The reason why those abilities will be popular is that they bridge gaps in current kits for many frames, making those frames usable and competitive with the top tier frames. Just leave them as is. If you want other abilities to be more competitive, choose some of the better abilities from other frames, and boost the abilities so they are more competitive. For example:

Revenant: Give mesmer skin instead of reave.

Nova: Make it possible to recast Null Star to refresh orbs.

Then, you have 4 very good options to choose for defensive abilities, each work slightly differently. On high strength builds, you'd go for Null Star, low strength, mesmer skin. High armor, Defy or Everlasting Ward.

Full list of such suggested changes below:

And that's it. Now pretty much every ability is an attractive option, and can really help out those frames whose kits are lacking in one area or another. As for the rest, I'm MR24 and don't care when people can access Helminth.

I think this really does make the options much more compelling. A lot more abilities you suggest are either good CC, good speed, good health/shield/energy boosters, or good damage boosting and/or damage reduction abilities.

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix]

2 minutes ago, -SicMundusCreatusEst- said:

And in which way would be useful for the game? add charge instead of roar is like not adding any rhino's ability at all, no one would use that ability.

Clearly this ability wasn't intended to be in the system since they are already nerfing it. It's the main crux of the Helminth. No amount of nerfing will stop Roar from being at the top of the system, they need to replace it.

And you underestimate Ironclad Charge. Still better than Ice Wave, Decoy, Mind Control and a bunch of other abilities I can't remember right now and Charge actually follows the blueprint the system was intended to follow.

[Kadikos]

Equinox and limbo infuse abilities have small change in use.

1) Can i infuse rest&rage on equinox and be able to use rest at day form?

2) Can i infuse limbo with his own ability to unlock the "hold to release"? It would be usefull.

[kevjamwal]

Tyl Regor is about to die sooooo muuuuuuuch

[(PSN)thegarada]

1 hour ago, 9Drade said:

Oh you mean the problem they created by putting roar/eclipse into the pool in the first place? Remove them.

I would rather have roar at quarter of its value over Rhino skill 1 or 4. And Iron Skin was never going to go in the pool to begin with. Also, they have not created a problem, since the skill is not implemented yet. 

[selig_fay]

1 hour ago, Sahansral said:

With the given situation everyone sneers about these now, but before the release of DE's official list, everyone's guesses like fireball, cloud walker, smite and breach would be top tier then among the subsumed abilitites.There was hype even with these abilitites as the best choices because so many frames have bad abilitites to replace.

A upgrade for most frames, but no big power creep leap like now, where everything is in the trenches and crying foul.

At the same time, I was looking towards Trinity 1 (I'm still looking) and Protea 1 (let's be honest, Protea 1 is an OP for thin frames)

[Culaio]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

Clearly this ability wasn't intended to be in the system since they are already nerfing it. It's the main crux of the Helminth. No amount of nerfing will stop Roar from being at the top of the system, they need to replace it.

And you underestimate Ironclad Charge. Still better than Ice Wave, Decoy, Mind Control and a bunch of other abilities I can't remember right now and Charge actually follows the blueprint the system was intended to follow.

its kinda shortsighted to think that people will only use roar, roar is not always thing you need, sometime you need survivability, sometime you need energy, sometime you need utility, tell me how exactly I would need damage buff when my khora with statstick without riven can one shot 20+ steel path enemies 2 hours in, I dont need more damage energy or survavibiliy  is a LOT more useful to me, especially when you make mistake and single attack from wrong enemy can remove ALL of your energy, it gets even worse if at that moment time on your dome ability runs out...

[Methanoid]

17 hours ago, OniDax said:

Yeah, only if they don't nerf Roar into the ground. If the nerfs aren't actually going to make Roar a less likely choice for a lot of people (assuming that it's going to be the de facto choice for a lot of people), then that means they aren't severe enough nerfs. Wouldn't that mean that DE would nerf Roar enough to where people still doing go with it? I mean, you act like DE can't nerf Roar to the point where it is no longer godlike. You're proving why trying to nerf it is a problem in the first place. Unless the nerf is significant enough that Roar is no longer godlike, DE's changes are meaningless. So, the logical thing for DE to do is to nerf it to the point where it is no longer godlike.

the very fact they feel they have to nerf certain abilities to the ground just makes a mockery of their whole new system.  If the whole thing is garbage, yet again people will just think "yup, not gonna bother tbh".

[(PSN)thegarada]

1 hour ago, Nox_Terminus said:

How does it curb power creep? You can still get the same abilities via other squad members. All this does is make the 'best' options a bit worse, ignoring the rest of the abilities, many of which should be getting buffed or reworked.

There are two options with these nerfs

1. The nerfs aren't enough to make the abilities not worth using.

2. The nerfs make them all pointless, and people will flock to the next bracket of 'best' abilities. Then one or two weeks post-launch DE will probably nerf those abilities.

What it won't do is make people say 'You know what Mesa needs? Mind Control'

Does a frame like chroma use skills 1 or 4? No. Roar at full value (assuming 200% intensity) will double your damage. How is this not power creep? Even at fraction of its value, it still far more valuable than majority of the other skills in the pool and his skill 1 & 4.

Also in a squad of 4, you can have insane buffs. Just grab Volt with Roar, wisp with warcry. Empower on chroma before casting skill 3. Trinity or Harrow with dispenser. Few million damage per hit easy, while being nearly immortal. How is this not major power creep? Even at 5% of these skills value the damage in a group setting will go up by a significant amount. At full value, we can be looking at 5-10x. 

Having these skills in the pool, at all, is pretty generous. People complaining about not able to double their damage, solo, and even much more in group setting, is idiotic. Why do we need to go back to one shooting everything while taking close to no damage?

[FSK41]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb -SicMundusCreatusEst-:

And in which way would be useful for the game? add charge instead of roar is like not adding any rhino's ability at all, no one would use that ability.

that's the point, Roar would be too good it shouldn't be transferable

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix]

2 minutes ago, Culaio said:

its kinda shortsighted to think that people will only use roar, roar is not always thing you need, sometime you need survivability, sometime you need energy, sometime you need utility, tell me how exactly I would need damage buff when my khora with statstick without riven can one shot 20+ steel path enemies 2 hours in, I dont need more damage energy or survavibiliy  is a LOT more useful to me, especially when you make mistake and single attack from wrong enemy can remove ALL of your energy, it gets even worse if at that moment time on your dome ability runs out...

If you don't need more damage, why do you care if it gets removed? You don't lose anything, you will still 1 shot enemies 2 hours in. And it's Khora, what do you expect?

And Charge provides some degree of survivability. Have you thought of Nezha to use Ironclad Charge to supercharge his wards? Valkyr for even more armor? Inaros? 

The Armor buff is tied to your duration so the more you have the more it lasts and you can just charge again to keep the armor.

[Fujiwuji]

This "why do you need roar you do enough damage already" is the most brain dead take possible. You people are nothing if not NPCs just parroting what you read that sounded smart instead of having agency and thinking for yourself.

If necessity is the condition then what is the point of THIS WHOLE SYSTEM? All content is doable by every single frame. You don't need more damage because "you already do enough", you don't more tankiness because nothing does enough damage and failure has no consequence regardless, you don't need more mobility because operator dashes are faster than everything else already and so it goes. Actually, what is the necessity to even PLAY this game? There is none. 

The point of this system is NOT to give us what we "need", it is to open out a fan of possibilities to a frame you like. Why do you think they avoided choosing so many similar 1s like Banshee, Excal, Chroma's etc? It would be redundant. Even the 1s they picked were unique for the most part. Limbo with the banish feature, Volt and Oberon with their augments, Loki with his aggro relief or Nyx with her Mind Control. They INTENTIONALLY went out of their way to make sure the selection is as varied as possible instead of going with either easy routes of "Just give the most OP ability away" or "Just always give the most useless ability away". 

The reason people are getting agitated over this incident is that because as usual, DE is shooting themselves on the foot. This fusion system is incredibly interesting and it can breathe new life onto older players interest in the game, making them want to figure out what they can create. Showing us the extensive customization to then days later say "Actually we are burning it to the ground before you even get the chance" is just stupid, which is even more funny, because as I said before, unless they completely destroy something like Roar, it will still be the best option for many players. Put it to 50% of its full power and observe, as most people still pick it, Larva etc because they are still the option that adds the most within the limited one slot restriction. Smart people will always go for what gives them the most, and guess what? Nerfing these abilities won't make any Saryn player think about Reave all of sudden.

And mind you, I actually don't really care for Roar or Larva. What I'm most interested in is Volt's or Oberon's 1, or even Grendel's for that matter. The reason I'm complaining is that because it's a slippery slope. They nerf the "overpower" abilities, then they will go after the next best thing which are probably the ones I just mentioned. And then the next one. And then the next one. Can you see where this will inevitably go? If the community is just OK with the frankly lazy responses DE has to the meta of the game, they will just continue to do it, making players frustrated, making them less likely to keep playing, and even worse, making them less likely to recommend to friends, create videos about it or stream the game. Do I REALLY need to talk about a certain F2P Shooter competitor that's overtaking warframe in player count again?