Thank you for adding Nav Coordinate to Bile

[TheFinalEpic]

Bile was my only bottle necked resource. And now I can actually play around with this system with it actually being a good resource sink for resources that we have too much of.

 

[Aldain]

There are some people who will unironically call these resource spending adjustments bad and that they've dumbed down the Helminth system because of it.

What a world we live in eh?

[Galuf]

I expect this content to be gradually simplified. The bile and titanium fixes were justified. I think most of the changes they made there was on par with their initial vision, the rates was not in line.

[BoomyGordo]

i did a real big goof.

 literally just sold all mine for credits last week.

 

[Drachnyn]

what other weird resources do we have that arent on the table? I'm thinking off all the gems, ores and fish parts and eidolon shards, which you currently can spend no more than 65.

[Kaotyke]

37 minutes ago, Aldain said:

There are some people who will unironically call these resource spending adjustments bad and that they've dumbed down the Helminth system because of it.

What a world we live in eh?

I already saw some.

"Helminth was nerfed? Why?"

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Kaotyke said:

I already saw some.

"Helminth was nerfed? Why?"

It's like clockwork.

Then again some people do confuse insane grind with effort so I guess I'm not surprised.

[AltheusVI]

I'm sure I made a profit from the regurgitation, I swear I got back a bunch of stuff I didn't feed him.

[IspanoLFW]

10 minutes ago, AltheusVI said:

I'm sure I made a profit from the regurgitation, I swear I got back a bunch of stuff I didn't feed him.

That's because it wasn't a refund. It was a gift. Everyone who got it, got the same things.

[vegetosayajin]

10 minutes ago, AltheusVI said:

I'm sure I made a profit from the regurgitation, I swear I got back a bunch of stuff I didn't feed him.

It is probably default for everyone, I got not nearly enough back.
But it's good to even get that, so it's ok.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

There are some people who will unironically call these resource spending adjustments bad and that they've dumbed down the Helminth system because of it.

What a world we live in eh?

I do believe it's an unhealthy decision to make it extremely easy to subsume anything. When advertised, this was for experienced players only and to act as a resource dump, something that long time players have needed for a while considering the masses we built up. However, if the costs just keep getting cheaper, then it really has no impact on the inventory for the player it was designed for, and the overwhelming power this system has is not really that earned.  

I expect DE to cater to the "3,000 Cryotic is too much" crowd next even though it's not hard to have 6 digits of the stuff over the years.

This is what happens when DE designs something for higher MR and then back pedals to make it readily available.

[Aldain]

7 minutes ago, Voltage said:

However, if the costs just keep getting cheaper, then it really has no impact on the inventory for the player it was designed for

It doesn't have an impact on those players anyway, players with literal millions of any resource aren't going to ever use all that up unless they do so intentionally and foolishly.

Even I have about 10 frames subsumed and it hasn't put a dent in anything of value, and I'm nowhere near as grinded up as some players might be.

If the only reason for setting something at an obtuse level is to appeal to people who have played the game longer than 90% of players ever will expect to reach is just so they have the ability to say "I can do this and you can't", then it isn't a good reason at all.

[Drachnyn]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb AltheusVI:

I'm sure I made a profit from the regurgitation, I swear I got back a bunch of stuff I didn't feed him.

Helminth turned out to be the best way to get some of those resources it seems. I never expected to say that tbh.

[Surbusken]

The helminth system itself should be nearly free or just have a story mission building it up to unlock. The horrid forced planet-grind that holds it hostage is a tragedy.

Based on the premised that, as a game developer you create new content, then the players either spend money or time on it.

Helminth is almost entirely re-cycled content, people have already paid for those animations and that work. You don't pay for recycled content, you pay for new content.

On top of that, the entry fee for using helminth is still a full frame, which you will have to either pay for or grind, build manually over 3 days and farm the resources.

The added constant cost of then actually interacting with the system, only has one single outcome, you don't play with it. I'd be inclined to test everything and swap abilities in and out forever playing with it.

The helminth system, obviously, has to be free to play with, for it's own protection and self-interest.

Now instead I compile of list of abilities I can cut loose and be done. Read this sentence out loud: I have no incentive to go play around with something in the helminth system for fun.

How much would you build in minecraft if every move costs 2 cent? Maybe if every move is free, you simply build and is experimenting for years. How is that for you.

It's kind of sad, they count their content in hours wasted on grinding instead of just having faith in actually just having fun with the content.

How long would it take to test just 1 ability on all your frames? How much gameplay is that and don't forget replacing actual enjoyment instead of grinding resources.

The alternative is doing a top 5 and leaving the rest in the dust, literally be done with paying and thus playing, as soon as possible. Get passed it.

Once it's unlocked, it's yours to play with, you bought it with your time and money. That's how it works. Just don't forget it's recycled content, so the price should reflect that on top of everything.

And also don't forget, adding to how weak it is reselling recycled content, the core basis idea of the helminth system is plugging useless warframe abilities, a problem the developers created.

Literally and symbolically being for their mistakes.

Their mistakes should cost them time and money, not me.

[_Euphoria_]

Where can I find all the changes made to helminth costs?

[Drachnyn]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Surbusken:

The helminth system itself should be nearly free or just have a story mission building it up to unlock. The horrid forced planet-grind that holds it hostage is a tragedy.

Based on the premised that, as a game developer you create new content, then the players either spend money or time on it.

Helminth is almost entirely re-cycled content, people have already paid for those animations and that work. You don't pay for recycled content, you pay for new content.

On top of that, the entry fee for using helminth is still a full frame, which you will have to either pay for or grind, build manually over 3 days and farm the resources.

The added constant cost of then actually interacting with the system, only has one single outcome, you don't play with it. I'd be inclined to test everything and swap abilities in and out forever playing with it.

The helminth system, obviously, has to be free to play with, for it's own protection and self-interest.

Now instead I compile of list of abilities I can cut loose and be done. Read this sentence out loud: I have no incentive to go play around with something in the helminth system for fun.

How much would you build in minecraft if every move costs 2 cent? Maybe if every move is free, you have build building experimenting for years. How is that for you.

Once it's unlocked, it's yours to play with, you bought it with your time and money. That's how it works. Just don't forget it's recycled content, so the prize should reflect that on top of everything.

And also don't forget, adding to how weak it is reselling recycled content, the core basis idea of the helminth system is plugging useless warframe abilities, a problem the developers created.

Literally and symbolically being for their mistakes.

Their mistakes should cost them time and money, not me.

The idea is that if you are already experienced, you'd know what the abilities do and how they interact. Most of the helminth combos you can already test together with a buddy.

vor 1 Minute schrieb _Euphoria_:

Where can I find all the changes made to helminth costs?

Most recent patchnotes

[rastaban75]

1 hour ago, Drachnyn said:

what other weird resources do we have that arent on the table? I'm thinking off all the gems, ores and fish parts and eidolon shards, which you currently can spend no more than 65.

Harrow Chassis😐

[Proscriptor]

6 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

The helminth system itself should be nearly free or just have a story mission building it up to unlock. The horrid forced planet-grind that holds it hostage is a tragedy.

Based on the premised that, as a game developer you create new content, then the players either spend money or time on it.

Helminth is almost entirely re-cycled content, people have already paid for those animations and that work. You don't pay for recycled content, you pay for new content.

On top of that, the entry fee for using helminth is still a full frame, which you will have to either pay for or grind, build manually over 3 days and farm the resources.

The added constant cost of then actually interacting with the system, only has one single outcome, you don't play with it. I'd be inclined to test everything and swap abilities in and out forever playing with it.

The helminth system, obviously, has to be free to play with, for it's own protection and self-interest.

Now instead I compile of list of abilities I can cut loose and be done. Read this sentence out loud: I have no incentive to go play around with something in the helminth system for fun.

How much would you build in minecraft if every move costs 2 cent? Maybe if every move is free, you simply build and is experimenting for years. How is that for you.

How long would it take to test just 1 ability on your frame? How much gameplay is that and don't forget replacing actual enjoyment instead of grinding resources.

The alternative is doing a top 5 and leaving the rest in the dust, literally be done with paying and thus playing, as soon as possible. Get passed it.

Once it's unlocked, it's yours to play with, you bought it with your time and money. That's how it works. Just don't forget it's recycled content, so the price should reflect that on top of everything.

And also don't forget, adding to how weak it is reselling recycled content, the core basis idea of the helminth system is plugging useless warframe abilities, a problem the developers created.

Literally and symbolically being for their mistakes.

Their mistakes should cost them time and money, not me.

you can't redefine the system now, it's too late. DE has shown that they are sticking to their original vision of introducing a resource sink.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

49 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

the arguments in favor of the current system have been surprisingly varied and good, and inclusion of more stuff in bile is in line with those arguments, so it's a proof that de understands what's going on

first time for everything I suppose. if they could just be less out of touch with players in other areas, we'd probably have hardly anything to complain about on here, and then what would we do?

[Berzerkules]

38 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I do believe it's an unhealthy decision to make it extremely easy to subsume anything. When advertised, this was for experienced players only and to act as a resource dump, something that long time players have needed for a while considering the masses we built up. However, if the costs just keep getting cheaper, then it really has no impact on the inventory for the player it was designed for, and the overwhelming power this system has is not really that earned.  

I expect DE to cater to the "3,000 Cryotic is too much" crowd next even though it's not hard to have 6 digits of the stuff over the years.

This is what happens when DE designs something for higher MR and then back pedals to make it readily available.

I do agree that the helminth system provides a needed resource dump for vets and experienced players, but I think the Cryotic is a little much.

If I remember correctly you get 200 cryotic per drill and each one takes 1:30. That's 8000/hour if you have no down time in between drills. Not even 3 feedings per hour. You could probably double that with an organized squad, but then it's just over 5 feedings per hour of play time. I think those numbers are with a booster. I pretty much never run excavation missions. I don't need any and the time invested vs. reward is lacking imo. 

I'm currently 2h into a solo SP Mot survival just testing a helminth build and I'm up 100+ Argon Crystals. For bile farming that's more that 3x as efficient as Cryotic farming. An organized squad would do even better. They could farm Steel Essence, Ferrite and Control Modules for Kuva, Oxides and Synthetics at the same time. The only positive I see for Cryotic is that it is a permanent resource unlike Argon Crystals. 

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, and Cryotic is totally fine. For me it's easier to just passively farm bile, oxides, synthetics, steel essence and relics in The Void while I test builds. It just seems like the time invested to Cryotic farm is wasted in comparison to other bile farms. 

 

[HoustonDragon]

I really appreciated the Helminth vomiting up the giant pile of resources back, as I capped out to rank 10 last night finally. It was a nice and needed balance adjustment.

[nslay]

Huh? OP has been playing for 6-7 years and only has ~3000 Nav coordinates? I mean, it's not small... I just expected a lot more for such a long-time player.

[Monolake]

6 hours ago, --Excalibur-Prime-- said:

i did a real big goof.

 literally just sold all mine for credits last week.

 

well... you got bunch of gifted RJ resources that should be ~50 "clicks" of bile, the adjusted costs are pretty good  so its not all bad

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 hours ago, Aldain said:

It doesn't have an impact on those players anyway, players with literal millions of any resource aren't going to ever use all that up unless they do so intentionally and foolishly.

Even I have about 10 frames subsumed and it hasn't put a dent in anything of value, and I'm nowhere near as grinded up as some players might be.

If the only reason for setting something at an obtuse level is to appeal to people who have played the game longer than 90% of players ever will expect to reach is just so they have the ability to say "I can do this and you can't", then it isn't a good reason at all.

If you have 10 frames subsumed then the system is fine as it is. This is more an issue of irrational players "just wanting it now". 

You would have a better point if you said you've only been able to subsume 1 frame in a month so far because the system is to grindy or something. 

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

12 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

If I remember correctly you get 200 cryotic per drill and each one takes 1:30. That's 8000/hour if you have no down time in between drills. Not even 3 feedings per hour.

 

You actually don't remember correctly...because it's WAY worse than this.

It's 100 cryotic with one excavator taking 1:40; so 1 second for 1 cryoitc.

That's 3,600/hour. Or exacly ONE feeding, with some change.

 

And people still think the cryotic farm is perfectly fine for some reason...