Isolation & Arcana Bounty Flow Changes

[SneakyErvin]

Looks like good changes and it also looks like I made the right decision to wait with my arcana vault grinding.

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

This change comes to late, especially the arcana stuff, on console i just bought the 2 weapons from other players, the design of the vaults  was bad since their conception,  an obvious time gate farming, if the new vaults were available without running the old ones every time, i would have  happily farmed them. 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

 

• Weapon parts (T2 & T3)

  • Slightly reduced: You only ever need 1 of the Sporothrix and Arum Spinosa Blueprint. Getting all the way to the Arcana Bounties and receiving another Weapon Blueprint is not a feel good moment. Although this doesn’t completely eliminate getting duplicates, the drop % reduction does allow for better chances towards the other rewards.

 

 

At that point why not just take the weapon parts and put them in Father's shop? 

[Dante6th]

Thx

[Kakaowiec]

New war when?

 

[CybiSami]

This overall sounds like a very welcome change.  The endo reward pool being removed from iso/arcana bounties is kind of happy making.  The only thing I am slightly leery of is the rare gems being removed from the bounty reward pool.

I've gotten the majority of my rare Deimos gems from doing iso vaults.  I've done a few hours mining in deimos, but have not had good luck getting the rarest tier gems from normal mining.

 

[Koalachan]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Once the Isolation Vault Tier is completed, you can run the Arcana Bounty at that same Tier.

1. Similar to the new Isolation Vault flow above, you can leave the session and upon returning to Cambion Drift you can go straight into the Arcana Bounty without first completing the Isolation Vault at that location.

I am concerned that this means you have to get out of the map and back to town before you can go again? This will break parties and is generally a not nice waste of time if I understand that correctly. We can currently restart bountees at mothers outside can't we?

[TheLordOmega2]

Sounds nice (even if i'm a bit worried about it screwing the necramech weapon parts economy), honestly i just wanted a "triple threat" mission to do all 3 bounties in a row since the whole "looking for mothers" part is really just annoying (especially with the new arcana bounties), maybe with a simple "go to the next vault, or talk to Loid to dig deeper" that'd set you up for the Arcana part.

It was long, and i admit that i don't put as much effort into committing to these runs as i should (mostly because the arcanes are trash, so the only reason to do the arcana bounties are the weapons), but i did enjoy going for the 1h15ish 3 vaults + 2 arcanas runs.

While we're on the subject of annoying things, can we get a way to spawn thumpers in the plains more reliably? they are incredibly annoying to farm.

Also, can you at least acknowledge that new necramech hover controls don't feel right on PC and either give us hope that they'll be reverted back to the good old "hold spacebar" or a reason why we should just accept the new ones (or maybe even, let us PICK how we want our controls to work individually)?

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

Oh, man. Thanks a lot.

I'm glad I didn't waste my time farming for those new arcanes.

The drop chances and the amount we need to max them just made me run Arcana bounties for the new weapons.

I was gonna take the plat route for arcanes, but I'm glad my plat will be safe when this hits console.

[Helmed]

that was such an easy way to get lots of endo

im actually upset about it being removed

[(PSN)robotwars7]

 gotta love how this appears AFTER farming like mad for Necramech Weapon parts and the Sporothrix. better late than never I suppose...

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Correct. Do the Isolation Vault Bounties once (when these changes go live) and they're forever unlocked. 

this is a good change, thank you, but please, PLEASE never make a convoluted system like this again.  people would've found Iso-Vaults infinitely more enjoyable if the higher tiers were easier to reach from day one. 

[-Penitence-]

3 hours ago, Crevab said:

Huh,  actually seems a bit excessive.  I would have thougt the simple solution would be to just make it so that you can go directly to the tier you want rather than dump the idea of needing to clear the evershifting vault each time

 

Edit: Oh, any particular reason Tier 2 and Tier 3 Mother switched spots?

They were actually always designed that way. For some reason people started switching T2 and T3 and now people think that's the way it always was.

[Wheelhouser]

1 - Good change.  Why the bounties were released how they were still baffles me.

2 - The Arcanes themselves are still not worth having/using.

3 - My only question is about the only drop left (for me) worth getting - damaged weapon parts.  Do they still only drop from the bonus vault and is the drop rate still the same?

4 - I guess another question.  Does the Loid clearing step still take longer to complete now (after he was sped up) than it originally did?

[ArcusVeles]

Thanks for this.  There was no way I or my clan was going to do them otherwise.  At least there's a road to access to those weapons for us now, whether by loot or trade.

[Chroia]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Season’s greetings, Tenno!

And to you!

 

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

• You will only ever need to complete a specific Tier of Isolation Bounty once to unlock the next Tier.

• Once the Isolation Vault Tier is completed, you can run the Arcana Bounty at that same Tier.

Wonderful.

 

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

1. Each Isolation Vault Bounty Tier now has a specific Mother location in Cambion Drift to provide a concrete flow with less confusion.

2. All 3 Tiers of Isolation Vault Bounties will be available from Mother within the Necralisk.

Certainly not bad.

 

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

• Both Isolation Vault Bounties and Arcana Bounties now share a droptable. There are 3 different droptables for each Isolation/Arcana Bounty Tier that rotates every ~3 hours, allowing you to selectively choose the reward you seek and when - exactly how other Open World Bounties work.   

• Rewards within the Isolation Vault/Arcana Bounties have been rebalanced to provide a better kick at the can for higher coveted rewards:

Also good.

 

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Droptable content breakdown

No longer in the tables:

Both sets of changes look good.

-----

However, with all of that said:

I have no interest in doing Arcana bounties, and while the vaults look like they'll be much less unpleasant to farm, I have no incentive to re-farm those either.
 

To break it down:

* I have no interest in Mechs, as currently handled, in Warframe.
They're not what I'm here for.
In terms of play, they're slow and clunky.
In terms of efficacy, they don't survive well in the stat-based combat that Warframe becomes past mid star-chart, with Voidrig depending entirely on its Ironskin clone and Bonewidow on the regen-rate from her grab outpacing incoming damage-per-tick.

* I don't need to farm a mech for future-proofing.
I'd already farmed the Voidrig, at launch.
Bonewidow looks exceedingly unappealing, even compared to Voidrig rather than an frame.

* Archguns have no real niche - There's no reason to play AW unless you like AW combat (which I don't, see my issues with mech combat, above).
Archwings are still basically useless in RJ missions - barring Amesha - though the changes did make them a bit less insta-dead, meaning Archguns serve no purpose there.
Archguns are both severely limited (barring Dispensary) in ground missions, while not pretending to outcompete most of out current gear.

* As per my feedback in both Theorem&Residual Dev posts, they're not worth the opportunity cost  to slot if I already had them, they're certainly not worth going out of my way to farm.

* I hit MR 30, on the one hand, and
Neither arcana bounty weapon is inherently appealing, so
they're not worth farming for.

 

But that's just me, which isn't necessarily representative of broader opinion.
So, take it for what it's worth.

[Krankbert]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Koalachan:

I am concerned that this means you have to get out of the map and back to town before you can go again? This will break parties and is generally a not nice waste of time if I understand that correctly. We can currently restart bountees at mothers outside can't we?

Why would you think that? That's not what it says. Read the words that are there.

[p_silveira]

4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Each Isolation Vault Bounty Tier now has a specific Mother location in Cambion Drift to provide a concrete flow with less confusion.

1. Tier 1 = Mother located in ‘UNDULATUM’

2. Tier 2 = Mother located between ‘ALBRECHT'S PROSPECT’ and ‘CATABOLIC GUTTER’

3. Tier 3 = Mother located in ‘THE ABSCESS’

Seriously, what is the point for this? Why not let all the spawn points for the Mother to have all three tiers? This system just confused everyone, especially new players that have zero clues indicating that each Mother has different bountie levels and where they should go next. This system helps a total of zero people.

[Corvid]

I kinda saw this coming to be honest. Once Arcana removed the time pressure aspect of triple vaults, there was no longer a reason to gate each tier on a per-session basis. Having the Arcana bounties be permanently unlocked as well is a nice QOL change.

Looking forward to the Devstream (and also the new event).

[DrivaMain]

I am disappointed Endo got removed. Those damaged necramech weapon parts, infested weapon parts, and weapon blueprints will be junk after we are finished with it. Arcana Bounties were good Endo farming alternative. Now that is gone I will never touch Arcana bounties ever again after I maxed out my Theorem Infection.

Also Theorem Infection not working on summoned allies bugfix when?

[irwinz]

54 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

I am disappointed Endo got removed. Those damaged necramech weapon parts, infested weapon parts, and weapon blueprints will be junk after we are finished with it. Arcana Bounties were good Endo farming alternative. Now that is gone I will never touch Arcana bounties ever again after I maxed out my Theorem Infection.

That's quite a global problem, as current droptables of all open world bounties make them rather redundant content after you get zone specific mods and parts.

But adding common resource to the table is not a good solution: just imagine feelings of person getting Endo ten out of ten while trying to build a new weapon.

As I see it, better way would be a conversion, like we already have with ducats.

Imagine you can get parts with high enough probability. If you need them, you use them. If not – Father happily accepts them for tokens or standing, and with the very same tokens/standing provides Endo and other non-Deimos exclusive things (like void relics, probably, or Kuva – if Nora has it, why not Entrati?).

Lorewise Entrati are eager to collect their old relics, and are strongly connected to Void and Ayatan sculptures. So providing Endo the way Maroo does would be pretty logical.

[Vesterbro]

7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Relics

• Midpoint % between the two old Bounty types.

Thank your the deimos bounty adjustment :D
Additionally, can you please put prime vault relic or radiant relic instead of normal intact relic? 
It's less annoying if I get some of vaulted or radiant relic while farming those 50+ theorem and residual arcanes 🙂

[Oorel]

I wonder if these changes would be so important to the community if there weren't so many technical issues running vaults/arcana. I basically never experience crashes, not even when I was playing RJ on launch, and I did play that a fair bit back then. But running vaults or the arcana bounties was very prone to cause crashes or freezing the game for me. As I kept playing it was inevitable that it would break at some point.

It was alright to have some longer gameplay loop I think, but the technical issues ruined it. Its just a strange situation. I wonder how much of the communitys general response to long farms and such is colored by the technical issues that are fairly common, loosing progress on something that takes a lot of investment due to something beyond your control is a real bad experience. maybe there is some alternate reality were this game is structured very differently with a much more patient community just because it works well.

[Nakti]

9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

All 3 Tiers of Isolation Vault Bounties will be available from Mother within the Necralisk.

Does this mean that Mother won't have Arcana bounties in the Necralisk? Mother in Necralisk is only chance for players to matchmake outside the recruit chat (which won't work on specific game settings). Same problem is with buried depths fissures, where it was impossible to matchmake into public group doing specifically fissures, because game has no way to tell players running fissures from players simply fishing/hunting/relaxing. Same here: game won't be able to tell players that entered drift to start arcana bounty from other players.

However, it's still a HUGE and much avaited improvement. Thank you!

[(NSW)RATHURUE]

Please remove Relics from the vaults. They're NOT DESIRABLE at the least in this type of time-consuming content.  

For comparison: you can farm unvaulted relics in Fortuna missions for rate of about 1 relic in 5-10 minutes, depending on what relic you want. In Plains of Eidolon, it would be longer because the difference of mission types, but it would generally take 10-20 minutes to reliably get one you want (again, depending on what relic).  

But Deimos Vaults? You are here NOT because of the relics. You wanted specific drops (weapon parts, necramech parts, necramech mods, scintillant) and never the relics. If you want relics, there's that infinite missions, which is far easier and time-effective to get the relics. Putting relics in vault droptable is not a 'bonus'. If anything, this is more of a 'punishment' to players that invest their time to the utterly boring and time-consuming line of fetch quest (getting bait), defense (bait mixing), survival (poison cloud), assasinate (necramech fight) and the optional mobile defense (loid). That's already a minimum of 10-15 minutes per run if you just quit after the necramech stage because you can't simply oneshot the necramech anymore, and the hitbox on the arms are simply BAD because it RANDOMLY detect AoE/Punchthrough damage. Top that with tier 2 of Vaults that's even worse than stage 1, and imagine doing all that, for a relic to drop. It's beyond disappointing and goes into 'are you kidding me?' territory.  

Deimos Vaults already does not have enough payout for the amount of effort needed to clear them. The main 'payout' from the vault comes from Loid defense mission, which is non-arguably the WORST part after the changes if players actually have the patience to do it. They're gonna turn into a second Granum Void after players collected all the new things from them. Please change that. Removing relics would be the first part. The second one would be granting bonus rewards of high-tier ALREADY PROCESSED MATERIALS on top of the bonus rewards you get for opening the Loid vault. You guys already have the data, right? Can't you see the percentage of how many vault runs happened, and compare them to how many loid missions attempted/cleared per vault runs before/after the 1st vault changes?

  

2 hours ago, irwinz said:

That's quite a global problem, as current droptables of all open world bounties make them rather redundant content after you get zone specific mods and parts.

But adding common resource to the table is not a good solution: just imagine feelings of person getting Endo ten out of ten while trying to build a new weapon.

As I see it, better way would be a conversion, like we already have with ducats.

Imagine you can get parts with high enough probability. If you need them, you use them. If not – Father happily accepts them for tokens or standing, and with the very same tokens/standing provides Endo and other non-Deimos exclusive things (like void relics, probably, or Kuva – if Nora has it, why not Entrati?).

Lorewise Entrati are eager to collect their old relics, and are strongly connected to Void and Ayatan sculptures. So providing Endo the way Maroo does would be pretty logical.

This, too. I have many, MANY, MANY plainly useless Quassus blueprints from the Deimos overworld bounties already.

[Jordgubbe]

9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Deimos Arcanes

• Significantly higher drop % chance.

This is a terrible change, since the Deimos Arcanes are useless this is just more air in the drop tables. I mean it's a fun concept to have arcane combos but as it's implemented the bonus you get is much too small for the work to get it going.