Octavia Prime maybe worse than non-prime?

[ghoti0315]

So... people care about shield gating when they can go invisible?

[AriaSTG]

You guys can see Octavia on screen?

*Tactical Teabag furiously*

[Hayrack]

On 2021-02-08 at 11:53 AM, (NSW)M0rgarath said:

<...> In the current shieldgating meta more shields is in general seen as a negative. Heck some even use the decaying dragon key in missions to have less shields and more survivability in high level content because of it. <...>

What a lol, only in Hipsterframe you break your legs to run faster.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Ah, so you think you’re better than me because you fight higher level enemies in a video game.... 😂 no further comment. 

Well you did call me a tryhard. You know the saying "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, ghoti0315 said:

So... people care about shield gating when they can go invisible?

Splash damage.....go fight some infested and come back.

[Malaki_7]

22 hours ago, Kadesfy said:

or maybe the invulnerability time scaling with shield size....

Yes this, and then they could flatten out the shield regen time so it takes the same time to fully regen shields no matter how much you have. This could easily shift the meta from wanting to have low shields to wanting to actually build for high shields.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

5 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Well you did call me a tryhard. You know the saying "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

Okay fair point, I hereby declare this pissing match over.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, fo3nixz said:

helminth exist

There is still only 1 skill that is worth actually spamming, and it does not benefit from suddenly wasting mod slots on augur setups. It also syncs very poorly compared to other less-frequently spammed helminth options in her kit due to range differences and how Octavia's skills work. So if you are there, looking through helminth for a spammable skill that lets octavia make use of augur mods and the key, you might aswell just pick up condemn and no key. You'll waste a slot on a no damage skill either way, atleast condemn lets your useful mods still stay slotted to benefit your actual skills.

And that is if you for some odd reason actually need to manage your shields through all the available aggro management, stealth and damage she provides in addition to being free to pick up another CC+damage layer from Helminth that syncs with the range and build of her kit. 

I assume many of those that feel they need shield management on Octavia still uses the roller which can royaly #*!% you up by leading stray shots or AoEs your way.

[Voltage]

On 2021-02-08 at 10:36 AM, Artekkor said:

No, the reason is because we don't want another Rubico Prime situation where rivens made it godlike and went for 500 plat a piece... Only for the entire community to cry out in pain when dispositon was - predictably AND justifiably - reduced. Its a perfectly logical approach on their part.

Or, you remove disposition and nothing gets tampered with, and weapon usage doesn't change. If a weapon is too powerful, that's the base weapons problem, not a single mod, one that is the largest time investment in the game. DE comes up with the most short-sighted and disruptive band aids that directly affect player feeling and player investment...

[Artekkor]

3 часа назад, Voltage сказал:

Or, you remove disposition and nothing gets tampered with, and weapon usage doesn't change. If a weapon is too powerful, that's the base weapons problem, not a single mod, one that is the largest time investment in the game. DE comes up with the most short-sighted and disruptive band aids that directly affect player feeling and player investment...

Which would obviously give rivens cart-blansh on screwing with game's balance, whatever we have left of it. Riven disposition gives DE control and ability to fix any miscalculations, should they happen. Doesn't matter how many times people will state that rivens are some kind of late game power upgrade to get - that's not true.

The original design of rivens was NEVER to make good guns better, but to make bad guns viable so that players had an ability to come back to a piece of  gear they particularly liked for any other reason BUT power. And also encourage using unpopular weapons that everyone otherwise throws into the trash for pretty objective reasons.

For example: i really like Argonak. But its trash. I keep it around only because it looks cool. It collects dust in my arsenal since the day it was released. I try to bring it into a mission every month or so, only to be immediately disgusted with how terrible and unpleasant it is to use and back to dust-collecting it goes. Only a riven can change that. It probably won't make Argonak overpowered, but it will definetely make it miles better and actually comfortable to use.
And that would be using a riven system exactly as it was intended.

[Voltage]

14 minutes ago, Artekkor said:

Which would obviously give rivens cart-blansh on screwing with game's balance, whatever we have left of it. Riven disposition gives DE control and ability to fix any miscalculations, should they happen.

Miscalculation? You're pretending like a 0.50 Disposition affects overall weapon performance/usage enough to sway people to different gear. That's simply not the case for the majority of players. Rivens have absolutely zero correlation to why people use Rubico Prime, Catchmoon, Kuva Nukor, Kuva Bramma, or Kronen Prime. Social media promotion as well as a generally casual/lazy gameplay experience is what correlates to the usage of those weapons.

14 minutes ago, Artekkor said:

Doesn't matter how many times people will state that rivens are some kind of late game power upgrade to get - that's not true.

From Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 2 in 2016:

Quote

We switched to a static Mod system in Update 7, and now 12 Major Updates later we are revisiting the concept with completely different intentions: an End-Game option rather than the only path. 

Rivens are referred to as an end-game power upgrade. These are DE's words, not mine.

14 minutes ago, Artekkor said:

The original design of rivens was NEVER to make good guns better, but to make bad guns viable so that players had an ability to come back to a piece of  gear they particularly liked for any other reason BUT power. And also encourage using unpopular weapons that everyone otherwise throws into the trash for pretty objective reasons.

Yea and DE's original design was not to have everyone use Roar and Eclipse from Helminth. Guess what though; no matter how much you alter the magnitude of a final damage multiplier, it's still a final damage multiplier and therefor popular/relevant/compelling. If you think there is a difference between the choice of Roar/Eclipse on your Warframe and the choice of Multishot, Critical Damage, Critical Chance, Attack Speed, etc. on Riven Mods, you are sorely disconnected from the game's damage mechanics.

DE stated that they want lesser used gear to be used with Riven Mods, but reality is not Dev Workshop text. Reality is how systems are actually used. If you don't want everyone using the same 2 weapons, maybe start creating new content that isn't all trash mobs, reskinned Mobile Defense, nerfing enemies to the point of irrelevancy, and all the other design choices that feed the playstyle they seem to despise players going for. Blood Rush is far more problematic to the balance of the game than your Xoris or Guandao Prime Riven going up to 1.00 Disposition. Disposition has achieved nothing since it was added, and will continue to achieve nothing positive for the game. All Disposition does is make players overall feel bad about their investment into an Endgame for weapon enhancement.

[Jarriaga]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

I am not sure if the dragon key thing should be considered when releasing primes. 

It isn't, and what is meta isn't either. Meta players are not, have never been, and will never be DE's priority when designing or changing something.

DE are likely going to patch the dragon key sooner or later. It was meant to be a handicap. The fact it was turned into an advantage by a completely different system being changed without changing the key itself is nothing more than an oversight. It will either be changed so it significantly delays shield gating, or changed into a completely different handicap altogether.

[ebrl]

Imagine thinking that health or shields make any difference for Octavia. You're permanently invisible, which in Warframe is essentially the same as being invulnerable.

[Wolfdoggie]

On 2021-02-08 at 4:54 AM, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Hmm, let's remove shield gating from the game then :3

Hmm, let's remove shields from the game instead :3

[ghoti0315]

12小时前 , (PSN)Madurai-Prime 说:

Splash damage.....go fight some infested and come back.

it looks like you wont get murdered by toxin damage when fighting infested huh

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

7 minutes ago, ghoti0315 said:

it looks like you wont get murdered by toxin damage when fighting infested huh

Uhm....the opposite....that was my point. Octavia can still get killed while invisible.

[ghoti0315]

1分钟前 , (PSN)Madurai-Prime 说:

Uhm....the opposite....that was my point. Octavia can still get killed while invisible.

Uhh yes, your point is valid here, but toxin damage bypasses shields though, so shields shouldn't be an issue here.

Also i use octavia to fight corpus and nidus for infested so well

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

12 minutes ago, ghoti0315 said:

Uhh yes, your point is valid here, but toxin damage bypasses shields though, so shields shouldn't be an issue here.

Also i use octavia to fight corpus and nidus for infested so well

Oh I see what you mean yea definitely.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

delete.

[Dunkelheit]

Am 8.2.2021 um 16:44 schrieb Kadesfy:

 

or maybe the invulnerability time scaling with shield size....

I like that idea a lot.

[YUNoJump]

On 2021-02-09 at 1:44 AM, Kadesfy said:

or maybe the invulnerability time scaling with shield size....

Dunno how well that would work when there are various abilities/etc. that can instantly/quickly recharge shields. Mag, Blessing, Rebuild Shields, even Rakta Dark Dagger. The meta would become "max out Shields to gain a really long invulnerable phase, manually recharge your shields in that time for infinite invincibility".

%based shield recharge is kinda the only way to do it, and is probably why other games use that method as well. Also has the side effect of buffing Shield Recharge mods.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Just the usual stealthy frame warnings which now includes that you have to be careful about acolytes (recast invisibility after they spawn and avoid violence who has kinda nullifying effect).

I'm not really sure that minimizing shield to force maxed duration of invulnerability after shieldgating is worth the effort

[Artekkor]

17 часов назад, Voltage сказал:

Miscalculation? You're pretending like a 0.50 Disposition affects overall weapon performance/usage enough to sway people to different gear. That's simply not the case for the majority of players. Rivens have absolutely zero correlation to why people use Rubico Prime, Catchmoon, Kuva Nukor, Kuva Bramma, or Kronen Prime. Social media promotion as well as a generally casual/lazy gameplay experience is what correlates to the usage of those weapons.

I... don't understand what you're trying to say. Yes, rivens have zero correlation on these weapons - because they are already good. They don't need rivens to work or more importantly - to be popular. Exactly as intended.

17 часов назад, Voltage сказал:

 

From Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 2 in 2016:

Rivens are referred to as an end-game power upgrade. These are DE's words, not mine.

Not exactly. They are meant as end-game GOAL. As in: something to do when you did everything else. A little slot machine to screw around with when you're bored as MR30.
NOT a power upgrade. I don't see the word "power" or "upgrade" in there. That's exactly why i reffered to them as "end-game power upgrade" - because they ARE endgame, but they are not power upgrade. Or at least not meant to be for things that are already popular.

18 часов назад, Voltage сказал:

Yea and DE's original design was not to have everyone use Roar and Eclipse from Helminth. Guess what though; no matter how much you alter the magnitude of a final damage multiplier, it's still a final damage multiplier and therefor popular/relevant/compelling. If you think there is a difference between the choice of Roar/Eclipse on your Warframe and the choice of Multishot, Critical Damage, Critical Chance, Attack Speed, etc. on Riven Mods, you are sorely disconnected from the game's damage mechanics.

DE stated that they want lesser used gear to be used with Riven Mods, but reality is not Dev Workshop text. Reality is how systems are actually used. If you don't want everyone using the same 2 weapons, maybe start creating new content that isn't all trash mobs, reskinned Mobile Defense, nerfing enemies to the point of irrelevancy, and all the other design choices that feed the playstyle they seem to despise players going for. Blood Rush is far more problematic to the balance of the game than your Xoris or Guandao Prime Riven going up to 1.00 Disposition. Disposition has achieved nothing since it was added, and will continue to achieve nothing positive for the game. All Disposition does is make players overall feel bad about their investment into an Endgame for weapon enhancement.

Dev intention says: "upgrade unpopular gear so that it was a small step behind top-tier weaponry to have some light-hearted fun".
Players: attempt to use it for enhancing their already SSS tier guns, literally using the system in the opposite way it was intended.
That's on players. End of story.

Its not like i'm unsympathetic to the case. I don't like it either when my beautiful Gorgon riven becomes slightly worse than it was. But it happens for a reason and ultimately i don't lose that much. Not enough to notice anyway.
If anything, i get more pissed if instead of beaituful number like 100.5% i get some ugly 96.6%. Now THAT grinds my gears...

[LillyRaccune]

On 2021-02-08 at 8:53 AM, (PSN)GER_SIGNUM said:

I think the reason is in Canada you are allowed to drink alcohol at Work. So there are always drunk at work. XD

Not true for Canada. 99% of work places will sack you for drinking in the job. Work places are allowed to set their own rules. However in the name of workplace safety and protection from harrassment, drunkeness is prohibited on the job. I think it was unprofessional for DE to allow their staff to openly drink booze during the Dev Streams (just pour it in a cup, come on!).

If you're going to insult someone's country, do it properly. Go for culture:

• Milk in bags.
• Eats poutine.
• "You spell Honour like a Brit!" (Tiny Plaid Ninjas)

TL;DR Don't insult the work force.

[Vaml77]

There's a warframe that I never liked.