Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[addamrobin2]

1 hour ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Assuming 20% chance of ephemera over 20-25 runs, 1.15% odds - 0.37% odds of not seeing a single one yet. That sucks, but still isn't astronomically improbable given the quantity of players engaging with it.

8 sisters - no ephemera

3 lich immediately after update for the 3 new weapons - all have ephemeras

no conspiracy for my rng too i guess

[(PSN)RWalls91]

So me and two clanmates logged on, went into steel path exterminate incursion. No acolyte spawned, so one of the crew says why not try granum void for more enemies, see if that gets an acolyte to show. So this point why not. Well none of us have a lich, and no candidate spawned, nevermind the acolyte.

Besides the 5 essence reward from the mission, felt like a real waste of time. We've logged off.

[Nightwasd]

Hello just wanted to write my frustration down. The first Sister of Parvos (saryn) is a PAIN IN THE REAR, it's IMPOSSIBLE to kill due to the constant Molt usage (no cooldown whatsoever) and everytime i have progress the sister teleports away and heals. I had done the railjack mission 5 times already. I am considering leaving the game for good. 

[Hodor_Roe]

I'm just gonna say it, scaling damage reduction is really annoying. When I build a weapon for big chunky slow hits and it gives me a big red 300 when hitting a lich or sister, it kindof pisses me off. Especially when a rapid fire weapon can deal upwards of 500 damage to the same lich/sister in an orange crit. At the end of the day, scaling damage reduction based on incoming damage just feels bad. It gives players diminishing returns on their investment (time and monetary) to making their weapons do the most damage. And the funniest thing is that it doesn't even apply evenly across different methods of damage buffing. Mirage, Chroma, Rhino, and all the elemental damage buff augments apply before the reduction calculation, but Banshee's sonar applies its multiplier after the calculation, making her buff the only one worth considering. AND NO I'M NOT ASKING DE TO NERF BANSHEE, I'M ASKING FOR A RETHINK OF A MECHANIC THAT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE IMPROVING MY BUILDS IS A WASTE OF TIME. I know this mechanic has been in the game for a decent while, but the calculation for liches and sisters is the first time it's gotten to legitimately ridiculous levels. Formerly, the highest damage reduction could go was 80% plus armor and resistances, but whatever equation is applied to sisters and liches leads to much greater damage reduction.

 

On an unrelated note, can we remove corpus treasurers' 99% damage reduction? I've had multiple occasions where I hit them with a resisted damage type and straight up deal 0 damage do to the whack nature of the calculations.

[Ms_Salami]

The long terrible PC 'X to interact' menu is broken AGAIN.

When taking the lich / sister / thrall or larvae the X to interact often breaks the menus and animations (so you don't see the result of you parazon choices and just stand there while the sound plays).... but worst of all the larvae interact breaks and your forced to take whatever unwanted weapon they had even if you have it. The press and hold doesnt work. It doesnt show the weapon slide or play and animation and your stuck with it. Forced to grind for hours again to get whatever. I didn't experience the issue after the last lich update and before the 'Mother of Nerfs' update now it's happening 20-30% of the time.

If you force us, then at least make the ffing menu work.

[ShadowDragon_99]

Make kuva thralls give the same murmur amount as the dogs pls

[Spriggen1337]

Liches in general are okay but there really is no real bonus to getting one to level 5!

with abilities like gloom it completely trivialises the content so the liche could be lvl 20 and wouldnt be able to do anything

what i suggest is locking ephemera behind lvl 5 liches OR give people a chance to get the ephemera for upgrading liches to lvl 5 
and also giving a 20% (rounded up) bonus to the progenitor element so if its 24% it upgrades to 29%

make liches accumulate CC resistance per level basic lvl 0 no resistance lvl 1 20% lv2 40% lv3 60% lvl 4 80% lvl 5 100%.

one thing to note is that corpus liches are way faster to do than kuva liches might just be me but i dont see the need to use Oull requiems and requiem ultimatums on corpus at all given how fast u can face them (within an hour) vs kuva liches (sometimes 2hours +)
 

[ShyPup]

5 hours ago, rstripn said:

I've done 14 liches and 2 sisters since the update. Before that I'd finished 96 liches. Overall recommendations:

1) Increase murmurs to somewhere between old requirement and new.

2) Reduce OULL drop rate by 50%.

3) Double drop rate of Requiem Ultimatum.

Aren't the requiem ultimatum's a guaranteed drop after killing your lich/sister? Doubling the drop rate is kinda pointless on that. And reduce Oull drop rate? Seriously? I've hunted down as many sisters and liches as I can get my hands on lately, not sure of actual numbers at the moment, and I have not gotten a single oull drop. Is everyone else just having way better luck than me or something?

[Old_Fogie]

2 hours ago, (PSN)RWalls91 said:

So me and two clanmates logged on, went into steel path exterminate incursion. No acolyte spawned, so one of the crew says why not try granum void for more enemies, see if that gets an acolyte to show. So this point why not. Well none of us have a lich, and no candidate spawned, nevermind the acolyte.

Besides the 5 essence reward from the mission, felt like a real waste of time. We've logged off.

Yeah, similar with myself and Son #3. We ran 3 incursions last night ( Exterm, MD, and Surv), and no Acolyte had the common decency or courtesy of showing up so we could Ginsu him into sushi. On the plus side, kiddo and I got to test our tweaks for our melee's, which turned out surprisingly well. So, there's that at least.

[PublikDomain]

I've been pretty thoroughly enjoying the Tenet Envoy. I just wish the laser mechanic was on the Ogris as well! Or maybe a lock-on mechanic like the Tenet Diplos.

[WildCard-27]

13 hours ago, DLOArceus said:

Are you trolling or what? Xoris oneshots every specter in the area with one hit. You don't need any "loadout" whatsoever outside that of the weapon and i doubt the weapon even needs it in the first place.

Not working for me.

[(PSN)jockhotty]

** Is it the DE plan to make suitcase guns holstered by being carried in hand? 

[WildCard-27]

13 hours ago, DLOArceus said:

Are you trolling or what? Xoris oneshots every specter in the area with one hit. You don't need any "loadout" whatsoever outside that of the weapon and i doubt the weapon even needs it in the first place.

I die as soon as I wind it up

[Voltage]

Hound Feedback for the Foundry:

Instead of built companions, can we get built components sent to the Foundry? It's really difficult to manage when you have 72 slots worth of Foundry sitting there that cannot be discarded without buying many slots just to sort through your inventory. Built components could be stockpiled and used while built companions must be kept or sold requiring many empty slots to sort through these and sell off what you don't need. I want to be clear that the amount of Platinum is not much, and I personally bought quite a few slots to manage my Foundry, but this is not healthy for the average player.

[DarknessNightshade]

5 hours ago, LittleSnowNeko said:

Aren't the requiem ultimatum's a guaranteed drop after killing your lich/sister?

If this is the case I'm due 3 I haven't seemed to have gotten from liches killed after the update.

[SeidronDaer]

 

I have completed 40 lichs. The first 3 ephemeras dropped after 4-5 lichs. After that, I am on a 25-lich run without an ephemera drop. That's 1-0.8^25, or 0.0037778 probability. This is absurd and incredibly frustrating.

[SpecialChar]

Being able to equip multiple OULL mods on parazon would be nice. The best use I can think of for these mods is to use 3 to rush or to use 2 to guarantee that I finish the sister/lich when my first two attempts failed to match the first rune word. I know this is contrary to the mod system in general.

[master_of_destiny]

• Hounds Feedback: As Enemies & Companions

The inability to consistently get parts here is a joke.  My first 3 drops were all the Zubb bracket.  3.  I have 3 built hounds that I can't do anything with...and of the 12 pieces I got the same one three times in a row.  I...don't see engaging with this, as this really doesn't interest me.  Having to grind 20 or 30 Liches to get any type of hound, let alone the one I want to build, is insane when the AI is still suicidal.

Let's also discuss the abilities.  Most of them are good...but cannot be equipped on a stealth build.  The miniature hounds break any cloak.  The orbital strike first launches a ball, that generally smacks an enemy and makes them aware before the strike can commence.  I like these...but it's impossible to use the hound as anything but meat shields.  

 

• Sister Tenet Weapons

I've got 4.  Flux Rifle, Envoy, Spirex, and Detron.  The Envoy is fun....and really shows how terrible the Ogris and Kuva Ogris are.  The Flux Rifle is...good.  If you use it in less than 5 second bursts the special mod is good.  That said...the mod should be removed from this one based on all your other special mod choices.  I'm waiting on that stealth nerf, that will mean the low ammo reserve will kill the potential here.  The Spirex is interesting...but too slow to matter.  That tiny clip, only sped up by head shots, is difficult to deal with when you have a surprisingly large splash AoE.  I haven't put time into the Detron yet...but the stats suggest an attempt at running between crit and status...which is not ideal.

I appreciate that you've decided to give everything an AoE.  It makes precious little sense....until you factor in the removal of self damage.  Boy, these guns would all need self damage negation otherwise.  Not too psyched about this...and I'm basically done.  You've already stopped working on the updates in favor of this year's self congratulatory marketing event, so I'm not sure if you'll ever fix this.   

 

• Murmur Reduction

Not appreciable from the Kuva Liches.  Great on the Sisters.  I have no love for this as your primary "streamlining," that seems to have done the opposite.

 

• New Requiem Mod Oull

One given based upon previous investment.  One earned on my first sister.  Still have all six charges...because at the 25% drop rate it's unlikely that we're ever going to have any substantial amount of them.  If I spend the extra hour to grind this out, I get to keep my freebie card.  That's...depressing.  It's not a reward, it's a consumable that just isn't worth consuming for the very minor boost in grind efficiency.

 

• Parazon Rework

Do not care.  I've seen a few more finishers...but grinding out the parazon mods is a bad joke.  I like spy missions...but railjack+spy is just not fun.

 

• New Kuva Lich Showdown Flow

What a mess.

What does streamline mean in your dictionary exactly?  For the sisters it means way less grind on murmurs...but it also mean that the sisters themselves are bouyed by adaptive damage, free shield restoration that the tenno cannot match, and the ability to constantly leap around such that any and all progress is rendered inert while their mook army simply files in to chip away at you.

For the Kuva Lichs....there's basically no shortening.  There's still plenty of murmurs to grind.  Once you get them, it's longer than before due to the fight at the end.  I literally cannot tell a difference...and the adaptive damage here is not making them fun.

So...was this an attempt to make them a real threat?  You give us the ability to summon a mech, but none of them are of value due to the uneven scaling which penalizes every single high damage weapon.  This might be a push to switch weapons like the profit taker....but the Lich has weaknesses and immunities that negate that thought.  I...who had this fever dream of insanity?  It's not fun.  It is more of a challenge...until you find the cheese.  At which point the entire system breaks down to a modified Steel Path system...where the name of the game is not skill.  It's finding how to gently bend the system, without letting DE decide you've broken it and permanently nerfing things to address poor decisions.  

 

 

Let's put this into a single sentence.  Swing and a miss.

 

[snoozecruise]

Suggestion: Sister spawn duration should be increased

Reason: Corpus Treasurers also spawn approximately the same time as the Sisters do, and considering we now have an additional step in obtaining a Corpus "lich," it's really more player friendly to keep the Sister around longer so we don't have to rush to keep a viable number of Zenith Crowns AND try to not fail the Sister/Lich objective. Most players are probably frustrated enough that they have to deal with the Granum Void in the first place.

On that point, I don't remember there ever being a timer on how long a Kuva Lich larvling lasts -- I always just took my time and it was waiting for me. Either it was a good enough timer, or there wasn't a limit at all... so why is there a time limit on the Sisters?

[Dauggie]

hope community people are actually reading these feedbacks, what i want is to make changes to larvas for accessing specific weapon. like now we have so many kuva weapons, it's pain to go back and forth to get what weapon we want.

just to get that specific weapon we have to waste so much time that you could actually kill a kuva lich in that time. for sister's, its more annoying as you have to do granum as well, which sometimes wont even appear on your path towards the mission, thus having restart again and again.

WHY NOT? just let us select the weapon when performing mercy on larvas? the random bonus % and ephemera can stay RNG, buy let us choose the weapon ourself since we are re-running them to get specific weapons. hope someone pays attention to this. i see no reason why, the weapon itself should stay RNG now that there are so many of them to cycle from.

[ShyPup]

1 hour ago, snoozecruise said:

Suggestion: Sister spawn duration should be increased

Reason: Corpus Treasurers also spawn approximately the same time as the Sisters do, and considering we now have an additional step in obtaining a Corpus "lich," it's really more player friendly to keep the Sister around longer so we don't have to rush to keep a viable number of Zenith Crowns AND try to not fail the Sister/Lich objective. Most players are probably frustrated enough that they have to deal with the Granum Void in the first place.

On that point, I don't remember there ever being a timer on how long a Kuva Lich larvling lasts -- I always just took my time and it was waiting for me. Either it was a good enough timer, or there wasn't a limit at all... so why is there a time limit on the Sisters?

I have a theory on this point actually, as some people have pointed out that the sister candidates seem to basically be just copy paste models of the treasurer, so I'm wondering if someone literally just copy pasted almost everything over from the treasurer and forgot to remove the escape timer on them, so now the sisters will just run off if you don't go deal with them.

Dealing with the treasurer and sister candidates back to back, they both will go invisible and both throw down those annoying orb things that tether you and slow you down a massive amount, which is a pretty weird thing for the sister candidate to be doing. Kuva Larvalings throw themselves at me, just looking for a fight, meanwhile the sister candidate seems to be trying to buy herself time to escape? 

[addamrobin2]

fix the dumb sisters not spawning if the golden hand is too close to the extraction point

did you not playtest?

[Volimar]

Do you think it would be possible to increase the cooldowns on the sisters' teleportation?  The fights are meant to be challenging, but at some point they just become an exercise in annoyance, especially when they teleport up and down levels only accessible by elevator.

[WarspitePOWAAAAH]

The Candidates
Personally, the method of spawning a candidate is a bit too tedious and time consuming, considering that most players won't actually get what they want every single time, unless we are farming trash sisters for the epherema. For kuva liches, you can run a capture and straight up abort the mission if the larvling doesn't have the weapon you want, but for sisters you are losing the zenith crown you have spent on opening the Granum Void if you abort, or you can wait an extra minute for the treasurer to spawn before extracting. Even disregarding the fact that it consumes your resources, this entire process is highly time consuming and punishes players for having bad RNG- which is something they have no control over, before they even get to the RNG parts of the sisters themselves. A very simple fix to this solution would be to refund the crown spent on entering the Granum Void upon abort.

There also seems to be a bug, a candidate won't spawn if the golden hand you activated is too close to the extraction, once again punishing players for having bad RNG.

 

The Sisters
As time of writing this post, there are a lot of bugs when it comes to stabbing the sisters, losing or gaining extra stabs (e.g. 2 stabs on the 1st attempt, 2 stabs on the 3rd attempt, etc.), getting in awkward places when you down them so you can't stab them, not ranking up/fleeing to RJ when you have the right sequence (somewhat ties into the first issue mentioned), and that is without mentioning how annoying fighting these sisters are. There are enough complains about their damage reduction and survivability, as well as their teleport spam, and I do think these are all things that makes them rather unenjoyable to deal with. While I get their fights aren't supposed to end in 2 seconds, there is no point in extending the duration of an unejoyable fight, maybe they can be more and more dangerous as their health gets lower, by attacking and casting more abilities faster, as well as using their hounds to do extra stuff.

 

The Weapons and Epheremas
The part that I am most unsatisfied with, not the weapons and epheremas themselves, but the reward system in general. I saw someone in the comments having stabbed 24 sisters and not getting an epherema, with a slightly better, but equally worse situation happening to me, having stabbed 18 sisters to get a single radiation epherema. I have already talked about how you have to deal with RNG even before spawning your sister, and this whole thing just makes it 10x worse - The fact that you have 0 guarantee on a sister/lich with an epherema spawning eventually, and you can only aimlessly grind trash sisters/liches hoping for that 20%(which totally is not the case, as that would have a 1.8% chance of happening with 18 sisters, and 0.47% chance with 24 sisters), wasting your requiem mods in the process. It makes the entire grind unrewarding, pointless even, that you are shown no promise that your hard work will eventually pay off.

The thing that troubles me the most for them not adding a system that lets you spawn one with a guaranteed epherema after killing a substantial amount of sisters/liches is that, we have seen this system before - Orphix Venom. The rewards has a chance to drop in the event's mission reward, and if you are unlucky with RNG you can grind the currency to trade one in. This was a fantastic edition to players who really struggles with RNG and just doesn't have all day to sit in front of a computer and grind their ass off, but this time around they didn't decide to add a similar system, we really have to question ourselves that are you simply trying to squeeze play time off us with big updates like this.

I suggest adding a parazon mod that you charge up with each lich/sister killed/converted, becoming fully charged after 15 kills(I would say if you are not getting an epherema after 15 spawn, its pretty reasonable that we guarantee your next one will have it), and stabbing a candidate will consume this mod to spawn a stronger sister/lich with an epherema. That way players would atleast feel that they are grinding towards something, not just aimlessly grinding with no tomorrow.

 

The Tenet Melees
This is a serious offender for how grindy this is, as if we aren't already busy enough with the sisters, you have to farm atleast 7 void storm in the veil proxima to get a weapon, talking about being unbelievably lucky to get the holokeys to drop every single match. Even with good void storm missions that lets you finish within reasonable amount of time, the holokeys still has only 37.5% chance of dropping. There are 4 weapons in total, so you need to complete 42 void storm missions in the veil proxima- talking about every single void storm mission you get the holokeys to drop, which has a 0.000000267% chance of happening on its own. Even in the best possible scenario, you still need to complete 42 void storm missions just sounds completely ridiculous to me, leaving making each one of them getting to 60% alone. Either reduce the amount required to increase the drop rate, because I don't think anyone can stand spending that much time to get a single weapon.

[Squick]

I appreciate that you guys want to increase the overall "tank" factor for boss enemies and the like, but the changes to lich / sister resistances have essentially made for a very small handful of rapid fire meta weapons.

 

I think there's a missed opportunity here, though. Sniper rifles and bows. Single shot, accuracy based weapons. Make them penetrate or greatly reduce the damage reduction of boss enemies.