Lorewise why are sentients so weak in the gameplay clip? A single generic Lancer mowed down an entire group with a grakata and basic machete

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Because they only spawn on Grineer Settlement and Grineer Forest tilesets, which aren't particularly known for being played often. Just like how Nox don't spawn on Grineer Asteroid.
Blame DE's internal spawn lists.

GTFO with this BS. Nox would have far more limited spawns if this was true.

You're more than welcome to look up how things were nerfed over the years to appease sub par players. 

I could type out some basic examples, but you're old enough to seek knowledge if you actually want it. 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

Just now, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Because they only spawn on Grineer Settlement and Grineer Forest tilesets, which aren't particularly known for being played often. Just like how Nox don't spawn on Grineer Asteroid.
Blame DE's internal spawn lists.

I understand that, because that's the underutilization I'm talking about. It's a cool enemy type, but why are they limited to these few tiles when they could be an enemy type among all Grineer? I understand using areas to limit enemy variants that wouldn't fit elsewhere, like Arid Grineer only being on Mars or Kuva Grineer on the Kuva Fortress, but is there really a reason why simple propaganda drones are limited to Mars and Earth?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

33 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You're more than welcome to look up how things were nerfed over the years to appease sub par players. 

I could type out some basic examples, but you're old enough to seek knowledge if you actually want it. 

I welcome examples. And I'm sure there are some. That isn't the reason Regulators aren't more present though.

[Teletric]

On 2021-07-17 at 6:35 PM, TARINunit9 said:

While I agree with the first part, the second part is where OP's question comes from:

In normal gameplay, we don't fight hordes of Sentients. They're too tanky for the game to spawn more than five at once. They don't just have armor (like Kahl himself has, according to stats Sentients are made of iron), they also have health gating. It's literally impossible to one-shot a Sentient in gameplay because of that. But Kahl, using one of our Corinth shotguns, chews them apart with one shell each

Kahl can one-shot them, we can't, even though we were using the same weapons

I just rewatched the part with the Corinth Prime and here is what I can tell you.

In the demo, he seems to only fight Brachiolysts and Battalysts. The sentients he one-shot were Brachiolysts, which can definitely be one-shot with a Corinth Prime (at least in my experience). The Battalysts took several shots to take down (with the exception of the one from the cutscene); granted they took less shots than what you normally would need. Suffice to say, he isn't one-shotting anything in gameplay that we aren't capable of doing already with the same weapons.

EDIT: Unfortunately, it appears unable to tell the difference between Battalysts and Conculysts, whoops. As other people have said, there were also a couple of Conculysts he killed -- one with a stealth finisher which we currently aren't able to perform on Sentients.

[TARINunit9]

18 minutes ago, Teletric said:

I just rewatched the part with the Corinth Prime and here is what I can tell you.

In the demo, he seems to only fight Brachiolysts and Battalysts. The sentients he one-shot were Brachiolysts, which can definitely be one-shot with a Corinth Prime (at least in my experience). The Battalysts took several shots to take down (with the exception of the one from the cutscene); granted they took less shots than what you normally would need. Suffice to say, he isn't one-shotting anything in gameplay that we aren't capable of doing already with the same weapons.

There's also a Conculyst he kills with a single stab (middle of the searchlight scene) and another Conculyst he one-shots with the Corinth Prime

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

9 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

There's also a Conculyst he kills with a single stab (middle of the searchlight scene) and another Conculyst he one-shots with the Corinth Prime

Conculyst being oneshot by a machete is ignoring gameplay mechanics yea, but Corinth Prime oneshotting them is actually possible thanks to its multishot.

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Conculyst being oneshot by a machete is ignoring gameplay mechanics yea, but Corinth Prime oneshotting them is actually possible thanks to its multishot.

I mean it was a stealth finisher. We can't do those on Sentients (because reasons?) but if we could then I don't see why it wouldn't kill.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

8 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I mean it was a stealth finisher. We can't do those on Sentients (because reasons?) but if we could then I don't see why it wouldn't kill.

Because the heavy sentients all have 4 health gates.

From the wiki:

The damage gating also prevents Battalysts from being killed in one shot, as the maximum percentage of health removable in one instance is:

• 25% at full health
• 20% between 75% & 55% max HP
• 20% between 55% & 35% of max HP
• 15% between 35% & 20%, after which there is no limit and the Battalysts will take damage normally at every instance

So they don't care how strong a single hit is, it's only gonna take off part of the health bar.

[Neo3602]

20 hours ago, (PSN)N7_Dredgen said:

The dead Rhino that he picks the shotgun up off of would probably beg to disagree lol  

are you sure the Rhino's not deactivated by an orphix field?

[Butterfly85]

4 hours ago, Neo3602 said:

are you sure the Rhino's not deactivated by an orphix field?

That's a good point. Forgot that was a thing.

 

As for the sentients being one shot that usually can't be? Clearly these were made out of Plotonium, instead of what they're usually built from 😅

[Teletric]

15 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

There's also a Conculyst he kills with a single stab (middle of the searchlight scene) and another Conculyst he one-shots with the Corinth Prime

Whoops, didn't realize those were Conculysts. Though, in my defense, they look practically identical.

15 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

I mean it was a stealth finisher. We can't do those on Sentients (because reasons?) but if we could then I don't see why it wouldn't kill.

Hopefully, what we saw implies they're going to add the ability for everybody to use finishers on Sentients and not just Kahl and Teshin -- especially Teshin's finisher where he takes the core and crushes it in his hand!

[Sloan441]

On 2021-07-17 at 6:12 PM, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Kahl knows how to mod

Amusing, but it does point up a truth. 

We really don't know Kahl. We've seen this very narrow slice of his life. 

He's a lancer, but he seems like a very switched on lancer. He might even be--evidence seems to suggest it--a very badass lancer indeed. He might be that guy who motivates his unit and gets things done. There are always a few guys like this, and the operative word is few. They stand out when S#&$ gets real. 

[Aldain]

13 hours ago, Neo3602 said:

are you sure the Rhino's not deactivated by an orphix field?

I mean deactivated is basically dead to Warframes not named Umbra.

...Umbra in a orphix field must be a whole different layer of suffering.

[MinecraftGangsta]

hes a level 100k lancer thats why

[Sanktai]

I think people need to separate gameplay from the story sometimes. Very few games would ever make sense if you look at gameplay and name it as the reason as to why something happens in the story (unless they're absolutely correlated and inclusive of each other.)

 

Whenever I pull up an FPS game and play through the story, it never dawns on me that "Hey, my character died in this cut scene, but I was shot well over 250 times throughout this mission, and just healed up seconds later. What gives?" The reason why Khal (Kahl?) was able to fight so efficiently against the sentients, is because lore wise every faction is supposed to be viable to an extent against them (besides maybe the infested). Sentients aren't supposed to be an innumerous, invincible force. I highly doubt that every loss they took in the Old War, were from Tenno. It's not unreasonable to assume that the Grineer and Corpus would put up a decent fight against them (and going by the fact that neither Vay Hek, nor Alad V actually end up dying during the demo, wherever they are commanding from is relatively safe, which gives credence to the fact that they are at least able to hold them off in certain areas, even if only for a short time.)

[Corvid]

Of note is that at one point Kahl manages to ignite a Battalyst with his grenades, despite that enemy type being immune to status effects in the current game. Said enemies are also firing different projectiles that seem to lack the splash damage they currently have.

This, coupled with the "Elemental Shielding" seen in Teshin's segment, makes me think that either these are new enemy variants, or the faction as a whole is getting a rebalance (which I am perfectly fine with. A faction of sponges armed with rocket launchers is not my idea of a good time, personally).

On 2021-07-19 at 1:07 AM, Famecans said:

the only things that make me unsatisfied in cinematics are:

*the sentients were supposed to use that weapon like a baseball bat but he stabbed enemies like a sword.

If you pay attention, you'll see that the weapons that Sentient was using weren't Conculyst Batons, but a new melee weapon that has some sort of "energy sheathe" near its tip.

[Sojufueled]

I accepted excal taking down a grineer dropship with 1 shot from an MK1-Paris, so I figure it's all fair game. Kahl's that level 9999 steel path eximus, I guess.

[(PSN)max141064]

Quote

Lorewise why are sentients so weak in the gameplay clip? A single generic Lancer mowed down an entire group with a grakata and basic machete

Easy answer: Every quest has it's enemies being a nerfed down version of their non-quest variant. this happends since....the second dream, probably? 

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

People in this thread are mixing gameplay logic and lore logic. Kahl is using low tech weapons which are effective and doesn't have anything for the sentitents to adapt to. Not to mention that he's fighting some pretty low level sentients until he got Corinth Prime. 

Forget your power levels in gameplay or any logic like that. 

In lore we have

• Mirage ripping apart sentients with her bare hands. 
• Inaros creating sandstorms that reached that atmosphere. 
• Volt moving fast enough that time is slowed down to a near stop
• Limbo teleporting across distances 
• Excalibur taking down a dropS#&$ with a single well aimed arrow.
• And many other feats

Not to mention the fact that there was a grineer that beat a sentient with a shovel in one of the synthesis imprints. 

So yes Kahl being able to cut down sentients with just a machete is inline with the lore and they were mostly low level sentients too.  

[RivaAurelius]

11 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:

People in this thread are mixing gameplay logic and lore logic. Kahl is using low tech weapons which are effective and doesn't have anything for the sentitents to adapt to. Not to mention that he's fighting some pretty low level sentients until he got Corinth Prime. 

Forget your power levels in gameplay or any logic like that. 

In lore we have

• Mirage ripping apart sentients with her bare hands. 
• Inaros creating sandstorms that reached that atmosphere. 
• Volt moving fast enough that time is slowed down to a near stop
• Limbo teleporting across distances 
• Excalibur taking down a dropS#&$ with a single well aimed arrow.
• And many other feats

Not to mention the fact that there was a grineer that beat a sentient with a shovel in one of the synthesis imprints. 

So yes Kahl being able to cut down sentients with just a machete is inline with the lore and they were mostly low level sentients too.  

You couldn't be more wrong. Not about the lore, dear friend, on that you are spot on. But have you ever played a 20 hour endurance run on steel path? No? Me neither! Wanna know why?! Because at 19 hours and 57ish minutes, Kahl showed up and killed me with one blow. Kahl is just that strong. 

(This comment was made in jest, just to clarify :P )

[Aldain]

13 hours ago, Sanktai said:

I think people need to separate gameplay from the story sometimes.

I mean, yeah.

But sometimes in games the gap is more than a bit ludicrous, and a Grakata taking down sentients by the bushel is just a little bit too much of a "Ok, really?" thing.

Part of that though is likely how effed up the damage scaling in Warframe is, I mean for a Grakata to do that against the Sentient units we actually fight as Tenno it would need one hell of a Riven mod and likely a Galvanized suite of mods and maybe even an arcane.

[TeaHands]

7 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I mean, yeah.

But sometimes in games the gap is more than a bit ludicrous, and a Grakata taking down sentients by the bushel is just a little bit too much of a "Ok, really?" thing.

Part of that though is likely how effed up the damage scaling in Warframe is, I mean for a Grakata to do that against the Sentient units we actually fight as Tenno it would need one hell of a Riven mod and likely a Galvanized suite of mods and maybe even an arcane.

Who needs Rivens, galvanized mods, or arcanes when you have

 

Family.

Or in this case, Brothers.

[(XBOX)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy]

Our next "rediscovered" frame will be Pymp. His powers are based on shrinking, and these folks' guns are actually firing tiny void energy fueled tenno piloted miniature warframes at the enemy.

Space ninjas kicking butt in your bloodstream is a heck of a way to go.

[Alogical]

The "low tech weapons damage sentients because they are old" argument is at the level of "Rocks are effective against tanks because they only have anti laser protection"
So, our grakata shots magic bullets, that arent effective, but a regular grakata that shots regular bullets its effective?
How did they lost against sentients in 1st place?

[Butterfly85]

Maybe Kahl is a leet weapons modder. Or the bullets could be lined with Plotanium.

That said its been mentioned in game that sentients tend to turn advanced weapons against their foes because they can hack into them. 

Can't really hack an old fashion slug thrower.