What is the real reason that DE wont support endurance runs and scaling rewards.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

7 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

It helps if you're listening to a podcast while doing it or maybe watching a video on another screen.

I'd rather fully focus on the said podcast or a video, because that is significantly more entertaining.

[George_PPS]

If you truly like endurance runs that are many hours or even days, you are already getting the rewards from it: fun and satisfying feelings. Most players won’t even have 2 hours a day to game. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

Sure DE has given us reason but they have changed so many times that i can't take them seriously at this point until they can give a reason that is riddled with holes.

I don't think they can make a statement that would matter....because it doesn't matter. 

Sustained long endurance rewarding is dumb to implement in a game not really designed for that type of reward system. On a side note, Warframe's reward system is already extremely fruitful and any excess rewarding is not necessary. Let the endo, credits, base-rare mods and ayatans be enough. That's already four separate types of rewards.

Now, let's be real, ANY marker based reward would be demanded to be cycled/replaced constantly and those players will always, ALWAYS want variety, changes, etc....only for most of those players running to the nearest cheat method to play that now endless resource pool of nothing. Why the hell would DE want to invest in that when none of that speaks to a dev team that is literally focused on growing the saga of the game? Why use resources, rewards and experimental setups on an endless loop that STOPS the progression of the game? Those assets should remained set for new stuff for new content. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

it's mainly because they don't want you getting such a large amount of mods and resources in one sitting, as you might not be inclined to play again for a while. DE get a much more reliable and consistent flow of revenue from casual and newer players, so those are the ones they cater for; in addition, these newer and casual players usually have no interest in doing long runs as they don't have the time and/or gear to go that long. so in the end, there is neither an economically nor ethically logical reason for them to encourage endurance runs.

 

[Yamazuki]

DE already supports endless runs by the fact it has rewards like everywhere else.

Scaling rewards isn't the same as supporting, that's encouraging it.

Scaling rewards hardly exist in "endless" modes within the context of Warframe's "endless". Other games with a similar mode have a hard cap on how far you're even allowed to go without either cheating or exploiting a game breaking bug. There's either an ammo limitation to where eventually enemies are too durable and you fail due to that, or the stages have a clear condition that become impossible to meet, or a combination of insane defense and offensive stats that you fail due to that or some other nonsense mechanic that forces you to lose.

For Warframe, you can semi-afk in a closet for hours on end and not fail a mission. It makes zero sense to having scaling rewards considering this fact.

It's also not as if any game needs an "endless" mode for people to spend all day on it. MMORPGs don't have an endless mode generally, and they had been targeted in the past due to people playing them all day each day of the week.

You also seem to think anyone who mostly has gaming as their hobby all want to feel forced into sitting in a mission for hours. I have a lot of spare time, and don't want/care for endless missions lasting hours and being rewarded. I've done it multiple times in the past, then felt like I had to do it again when Steel Essence came into existence. It's not really fun sitting in a single mission for several hours straight, and this is even though I had set it to solo so I could actually pause the game and take breaks while hoping my client didn't crash.

Even my typical limit for a mission for 2-3 hours is already extreme, and not even healthy.

If you want to play Warframe all day, you can happily sit in a mission as is, and not like scaling rewards do much of anything. Warframe's resources quickly become useless, with Kuva being the only relevant resources, and this is only for people that even bother with Rivens. 

[(PSN)SHINOBISERPENT]

No idea. I think they are probably afraid of too much player goodies. I like endurance rewards. even small things like the boosters from relic endurance. that's a fair deal. But right now, the rewards in warframe are completely linear. you get 3 orokin cells in 10 minutes, then it'll take you an hour to get 18. which is not fair because enemies scale and make the mission harder and harder. 

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

The real reason is that it’s hard.

I mean, have you tried balancing a reward table with vectors for scalability?

Try it. After you Google what that even means, of course.

Oh but writing all down isn’t enough, after you do the math now you have to program a system that dishes out the rewards from your algorithms. It’ll need to be absolutely flawless, there can’t be any bugs with the output or players will start a witch hunt.

After you’ve done that, you’re going to have to make content for that reward program to be in, oh and then probably a game for that content to be in too.

So, when you came back to this thread in 5 years when you’ve finally launched a side scrolling mobile game that’s been in beta for 3 years, you’ll have a more clear idea of what the challenges are.

 

<3

[Dauggie]

9 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

It's technically "optional",

its completely optional. you can reset after 20min/20wave,etc and still get same rewards as someone going for longer time. this helps a normal player who only got one hour a day free time to get things if rng is in favour or he can try next day. but as you said if something was rewarded only after 3+ hours, this game would lose lot of players, including me since i don't have such time. also we all know how network is all moody in such cases where entire run can go to waste. 

[TARINunit9]

13 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

 

• Softened meta. As Warframe is built currently, completing long Endurance runs is not at all about skill; it's pretty much entirely about your patience, free time and adherence to a conflict-trivializing meta. 

Lemme tell ya, this is nothing new. This is nothing "currently." This has been Warframe since at least 2015 (when I joined) and possibly earlier

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, Megalomaniakaal said:

Rather imagine if they added something new to the game instead: The Cetus tower could become a progressive Orokin-tileset dungeon with a monthly reset.

Konzu: "Ai yo... Tenno! There's something strange going on with the Unum tower. Be a pal and go check it out for old Konsu, would you?"

An "endless" of the non-endless missions, you progress through the tower with each new floor featuring a different mission type from the previous and enemies leveled +10. Each mission ends with a choice to either progress to the next floor or extract from the tower. So long as there hasn't been a monthly reset next time you queue in you continue from your previous point of extraction.

How and what rewards would 'scale' from that if at all would be up to DE to figure out. I'm just thinking it might be a fun new way to present the missions in addition to what we have now. I know they can do it because a part of that kind of already exists with SO/ESO just without progress preservation.

 

Then again, maybe this is just effectively combining nightwave with SO.

I'd play that gladly!

Alternatively they could set it up like greater rifts in Diablo 3. You beat the difficulty you are at to unlock the next and so on, then after that is done you can play at any of those difficulties as you please. This could also streamline endless modes, so you find a spot that suits you then you grind that and the mobs will never increase in level beyond finishing rotation C. So say each rotation increases levels by 10 and you are comfy at level 150, then you'd grind to the point where you can start with level 100 mobs which would then cap out at 150.

Obviously they'd need to keep the limitless endless aswell for those that enjoy it.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

14 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

on a side note, Warframe's reward system is already extremely fruitful and any excess rewarding is not necessary

Are you having a laugh? Warframes reward system is far from rewarding, examples 1500 credit cache, 15 endo, vitality on high level missions. I have heard some really really stupid things, but this one takes the cake. nobody needs another vitality in a kuva fortress mission, or a credit cache on a rotation based rewards when 5 waves on a dark sector gives 10 times as much, not to mention index exists.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

14 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

DE get a much more reliable and consistent flow of revenue from casual and newer players, so those are the ones they cater for; in addition, these newer and casual players usually have no interest in doing long runs as they don't have the time and/or gear to go that long.

Players who usually quit the game because its lack of a actually descriptive tutorial confuses them and leaves them not knowing what to do. Which is why veteran players have to pick up the slack and guide them through most of the game mechanics.

 

[SenorClipClop]

13 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Lemme tell ya, this is nothing new. This is nothing "currently." This has been Warframe since at least 2015 (when I joined) and possibly earlier

I only say "currently" in case the game's design changes wildly in the future, and then someone looks back and quotes me to say I'm wrong.

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

I only say "currently" in case the game's design changes wildly in the future, and then someone looks back and quotes me to say I'm wrong.

Ah you were looking the other direction, I getcha

[(NSW)Greybones]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

Players who usually quit the game because its lack of a actually descriptive tutorial confuses them and leaves them not knowing what to do. Which is why veteran players have to pick up the slack and guide them through most of the game mechanics.

 

I’m fine with picking up the slack though. Gives me a chance to teach someone how to not optimise the fun out of the game, because it makes it really easy to do so otherwise (been there, done that), and one of my goals is to know enough that I can make recommendations for the fight instead of “Slap these four mods on and make the game braindead for yourself”.

[Marvelous_A]

People will dump hours in a repetitive game mode and burn out willingly as fast as possible if given the option. Same reason players are not given infinite standing cap

[Danielw8]

They did it with eximus dropping steel essence, and people was afk with macros getting a lot of resources. This is the main reason. They nerfed khora, they nerfed ai aggro, and they also changed the whole system how we get steel essence. 

Anyways we have ways to do 6 hours survival hours doing pretty much nothing: Ivara, volt with specters, khora still viable.

Endurance its pretty much dead, and im happy with that

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

11 hours ago, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

Are you having a laugh? Warframes reward system is far from rewarding, examples 1500 credit cache, 15 endo, vitality on high level missions. I have heard some really really stupid things, but this one takes the cake. nobody needs another vitality in a kuva fortress mission, or a credit cache on a rotation based rewards when 5 waves on a dark sector gives 10 times as much, not to mention index exists.

You chose to leave out everything else so that tells me you're more interested in trying to keep something that has already been proven to be meaningless alive. I don't recall endless arbitrations, disruptions, relic survival or defense, kuva survival, Mot, dark sector defense, level 4 Orb Vallis arena and Deimos runs dropping that. Now, OF COURSE you're not going to get mega rewarded for taking on basic star chart survivals and trying to extend your run longer than necessary. Why should you be rewarded for that. If you want more then jump in the game modes that offer more.

Bruh, you get actual in-game currency earning parts or formas for just playing five minutes in an infinitely playable relic mission, plus bonus stuff and mods, in a free game, so stop whining as if you're somehow not being extremely overcompensated for the little effort required. 

So, in essence, yes, I'm having a laugh. 

[(PSN)Stardust-Rebel]

Maybe you should take a look at how the developers themselves play this game...

Megan played a frame that borders on non-interactive, Inaros, for a very long time. To take her playstyle further, she used an Arca Plasmor with him. Rebecca was ecstatic when the Kuva Bramma was released and after its introduction came the removal of self-damage. You can see the connection there. One could even speculate that her own hype for the bow is what caused its disposition to get thumped into the floor. 

When Arbitrations were introduced, their reward table was " A few rotations and then Table C into infinity and beyond ". Starchildren complained about the permanency of death in that game mode and then were given revival essence towers. Scott wants to revive the raid system but with all of the story quests lined up, I do not expect that any time soon. They are not doing what you are asking for here because there is no such thing as " something for everyone ". If they work on endurance content, they alienate the casuals with platinum in their wallets that will pay not to grind. If they work on story content, starchildren like you will complain about how " fast " it was and how " there's nothing meaningful to do ". 

This is not a monogamous marriage and DE is not your live-in spouse. 

[Skaleek]

Because people will find ways to abuse it and trivialize the value of whatever they are farming.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

On 2021-09-27 at 6:04 AM, SneakyErvin said:

Alternatively they could set it up like greater rifts in Diablo 3. You beat the difficulty you are at to unlock the next and so on, then after that is done you can play at any of those difficulties as you please. This could also streamline endless modes, so you find a spot that suits you then you grind that and the mobs will never increase in level beyond finishing rotation C. So say each rotation increases levels by 10 and you are comfy at level 150, then you'd grind to the point where you can start with level 100 mobs which would then cap out at 150.

Obviously they'd need to keep the limitless endless aswell for those that enjoy it.

Level 150 enemies in Warframe are an absolute joke to veteran players, they drop dead easier than enemies in diablo 3 do when hit with that modded gear that does multi-hundred trillion damage.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

10 hours ago, (PSN)Stardust-Rebel said:

Maybe you should take a look at how the developers themselves play this game...

The developers actually playing the game don't make me laugh, if they truly played the game outside of their little streams then they wouldn't have released the voidrig with an extra mod slot on the arquebex. If they honestly played their own game then how in the world did they miss that. my friend and i thought that it was a special feature and we lost a forma when they removed the slot.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

Here's the perfect solution to making endgame and it shouldn't be ridiculously hard to make nor make newer players feel like they don't have the time to do it:

Firstly we make a new star chart separate from the initial that will say start at level 200 enemies, each planet you go up will increase lets say 100 levels.

next we add a new kind of survival that will start at level 1000 enemies and increases 100 levels every area you advance to, this will allow players that can't stay for 8 hours to be able to enjoy fighting level cap enemies.

This survival mode will be like an extermination/arena that has areas you can advance to, say you need to log off because of real life stuff you would go to a yellow extraction market that takes you back to your ship holding a place in the reward system and the arena tier. If you have to leave early it will simply bump you back to the start of said area. 

There will also be a green extraction marker that will finish the arena entirely claiming all of your rewards that you earned which will be rewarding without any silly filler. maybe we make it to where when you extract you have to wait a week before you can begin a new arena or maybe we don't.

As for the areas, I'd say to allow endurance run people to also enjoy; we'll have the ability to stay as long as we want, but we'll only get loot from standard enemy drops after you earn the first area's rotation reward.

This way the content allows for everyone to enjoy it and DE won't have to nerf so many weapons into the ground now that there will be truly high level content.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

11 hours ago, (PSN)Stardust-Rebel said:

Scott wants to revive the raid system but with all of the story quests lined up, I do not expect that any time soon.

It's clear that half the time they're not even trying, look at railjack, a project that started years before it released and was one of the buggiest disasters I've even seen in this game. not to mention it's still the buggiest game mode in Warframe, sure if you're the host it's not too much of an issue but teammates suffer ridiculously. if DE would shift their focus from graphical fidelity on a game with already AAA+ graphics and work on actual content more then the game would move along much nicer.

I do want to note that there are a couple graphic issues that should be sorted out:

1. the blinding sun-like orb that is on the tenno windows/wall decoration in the dojo, this makes it almost impossible to see through the glass making it a pretty useless window

 2. the outdated textures on the original infested faction.

Outside of these two examples i can't think of single thing involving graphics that really needs any upgrades/changes.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

8 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Because people will find ways to abuse it and trivialize the value of whatever they are farming.

Even with the old steel essence farm which was the first farm in the game that ever felt rewarding steel essence couldn't be made trivial because of the sheer amount of kuva needed to get the rolls you want on rivens, and before you say anything about selling rivens which seems to happen every time I bring this point up, I don't sell rivens it's more trouble than it's worth. Try to get a usable roll on a riven is next to impossible for me, there is no amount of kuva u could add up unless you went into the hundreds of trillions that would be enough, and even at that I'd probably still end up needing more.

But my response here doesn't have to do with the overall point of this forum it is just an example on how, depending on one's RNG some things aren't trivial no matter how much of it you have.