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Styanax marketing impression doesn't really match Styanax gameplay shown

NarikoKuroame

By NarikoKuroame,
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NarikoKuroame

NarikoKuroame

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Firstly before you try to "ackshually" me I'm aware trailers and artwork don't = how they are in gameplay. However all previous frames trailers, even if they had some exaggerated elements still depicted the frame as how it actually PLAYS in game. Styanax's trailer vs is gameplay is almost showing off two ENTIRELY different frames. Its shocking.

From the trailer we were shown a tanky melee frame, destroying the target in close quarters with a melee spear and shield. He wasn't standing there summoning energy spears and chucking them, his shield wasn't only out for seconds at a time. He was a gladiator style frame, fighting like a gladiator. His Levarin artwork card shows him standing there, with what we now know is his signature spear gun and shield, looking like hes gonna fight exactly how we saw in the trailer.

The gameplay we've been shown didn't match any of that stuff shown AT ALL.

- His equipped spear is a gun. It's not a melee spear its a speargun. We all know how those currently work in game. They are a cool looking gun with a funky secondary fire.

- He doesn't ACTUALLY have a shield, the shield he "has" exists for literally 1 second on one ability. It's not even on his arm, it appears and disappears

- His personal spears that aren't a gun...might as well be a gun cause all he does is throw them

Instead of the tanky melee gladiator shown off, we get a dude who stands there and chucks energy spears. He honestly looks like Excalibur 4.0, just swap swords for spears and ya know...unlike Excalibur he doesn't ACTUALLY have a exalted weapon he summons and uses.

And no, don't go "Why are you judging before trying him in game, he could be good" that's not the point. He could be the BEST Frame ever. That doesn't change the fact what we're getting is vastly different from what we were initally shown, style and vibe wise. Unless the speargun rework, or that equipped melee they didn't talk about somehow changes the situation completely, as cool as the trailer for Styanax was it feels really icky to completely misrepresent how that Warframe actually works in its debut trailer.

Like if there is something hidden in their pocket like "We've actually created a spear and shield melee, it just wasn't ready" great, still weird to not actually mention it at all. I can't think of a single other Warframe whose reveal trailer depicts it playing so VASTLY different from how it actually plays in game. And no "he has a spear and shield tho" isn't the clever reply you think it is.

If all he does is throw magic spears and summon a blink and you miss it shield for a parry, his trailer (no matter how stylized) should've depicted him doing nothing but throwing magic spears and doing 1 second disappearing shield parries. And IF there is more to him/a upcoming weapon that actually allows him to play like shown in his trailer...it really is a bad idea to keep is a "secret" at this point as its giving a false impression.

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NarikoKuroame

NarikoKuroame

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)Cargan2016 said:

Seems to me like marketing and game play was pretty spot on to me I really dont see the point your trying to make as really an issue

How so?

We were shown: "Gladiator" style frame, fighting in melee with spear and shield

We are getting: "Not a Gladiator", more like some dude who does javelin throw at the olympics. He doesn't fight in melee with a spear and shield, he throws spears from far away and doesn't actually have a shield, his 2 just has some graphics that make him look like he has a shield.

How does what we were shown match what we are getting? and don't you dare go "they both have spear and shield", thats a lazy cop out

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NarikoKuroame

NarikoKuroame

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5 minutes ago, kyori said:

Welcome to Warframe! 

You will get used to these kinda things when you play on.

I've probably been playing longer than you. Not once ever, has a trailer they released been so wildly different from how the actual frame plays. Sometimes they exaggerate the power of their skills/weapons, and sometimes they do fancy stuff like cartwheel while shooting, but every frames trailer still matches their "playstyle".

Styanax does not. His trailer depicts a upclose and brutal melee gladiator, his gameplay implies you want to stand at medium range and throw javelins at people and parry them away if they get too close so you can go back to throwing spears.

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Marvelous_A

Marvelous_A

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22 minutes ago, (PSN)Cargan2016 said:

Seems to me like marketing and game play was pretty spot on to me I really dont see the point your trying to make as really an issue

Did you actually watch the anime trailer? Quite possible your eyes were looking at something else when the video was playing.

 

At the very least if there are lance and shield in the video they should make a lance and shield. Styanax really just casts different kinds of Radial Javelin in the current gameplay trailer.

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(PSN)Cargan2016

(PSN)Cargan2016

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9 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Did you actually watch the anime trailer? Quite possible your eyes were looking at something else when the video was playing.

 

At the very least if there are lance and shield in the video they should make a lance and shield. Styanax really just casts different kinds of Radial Javelin in the current gameplay trailer.

yes I watched the anime several times and the gameplay and they match to me.  he used exaulted radial javlins in game play and pable admitted they where so focused on other changes to game they forgot to shwocase his signature weapons

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(PSN)robotwars7

(PSN)robotwars7

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to quote myself from yesterday "if I don't feel like Leonidas from 300 in an exterminate mission, he's trash, period!".

I guess now we know why DE are willing to give him away for free. never really been a fan of spearguns since you can't quick melee with them (you totally should be able to IMO.)

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cute_moth.npc

cute_moth.npc

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7 hours ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Umm 

🤔

Pretty wildly different. 

I was thinking this exact same thing, this is literally the video that got me to start playing Warframe and the truth is that aside from the art matching, this isn't representative of Warframe's gameplay at all xD

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Tiltskillet

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11 hours ago, NarikoKuroame said:

Firstly before you try to "ackshually" me I'm aware trailers and artwork don't = how they are in gameplay. However all previous frames trailers, even if they had some exaggerated elements still depicted the frame as how it actually PLAYS in game. Styanax's trailer vs is gameplay is almost showing off two ENTIRELY different frames. Its shocking.

I wouldn't put it that extremely, but I can see what you're saying.   Ideally the trailer should match up within broad parameters to the gameplay.  But has this discrepancy harmed or swindled anyone?  We're getting him for free.

People who miss the promo will have a better case for complaint.  But even then, I'd say someone who uses plat or grind to get Styanax, without watching any gameplay, without talking to players who have him already, without reading about the abilities beforehand, without even watching the ability previews that will be on the market screen...just purely on the basis of an anime trailer that doesn't  emulate Warframe's  general gameplay in any way...would be marvelously foolish.  I'd honestly worry about that person's ability to navigate life in general. :P

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Kainosh

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11 hours ago, NarikoKuroame said:

He was a gladiator style frame, fighting like a gladiator.

Just don't equip any guns and play mostly melee?  There are no spears...but we do have Sword + Shield.  Find a matching one and go with it.

Subsume him Inaros' Sandblast instead of Spears. 

 

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Atsia

Atsia

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17 hours ago, NarikoKuroame said:

We were shown: "Gladiator" style frame, fighting in melee with spear and shield

Not really. Almost all the trailer fight was him actually throwing spears. He never makes a single physical attack beyond blocking with the shield, which I'll agree is a bit disappointing that it's not really a thing.

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Birdframe_Prime

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So...

You expected Warframe gameplay to look like an... anime? We have seen, consistently, that in trailers the gameplay is more like an actual game, while the cut-scene Warframes moved like real super-soldier style beings. Hell, every single Prime Trailer shows the frames doing things we can't actually do and they're around 6 years old for some of them, but every single one still shows the Abilities in use.

Styanax throws his Speargun and throws the spear he summons in the anime. He uses his shield as a shield, yes, but also shield-bashes things because that's what the ability does. We even see his 3, which is a team buff, when he buffs all of the poor kids in that Leviathan monster to help them take control. And his 4 in practice lifts him in the air and rains down energy spears from above, which is literally what the anime did.

Exaggeration? To be sure.

But at what point does animation, particularly anime, ever go under-exaggerated on its fight scenes?

This is precisely the kind of mentality that will discourage DE from doing cool things in the future.

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(PSN)slightconfuzzled

(PSN)slightconfuzzled

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Its not a big deal to me personally. For a few reasons. Is this his trailer? For clarity what is meant by that? Like I am aware of Prime trailers, and often certain updates have trailers too, but did Gyre have a trailer? Or a preview? Have I been somehow missing out all the 5 minute animations for all my favourite Warframes? My assumption was that this was just an animation to hype up Styanax. I don't really consider it a trailer (depending on what one means by that more specifically), more as supplemental material. Trailers, usually in the context of Warframe, usually involve in-game assets, so its no duh that they would be more accurate and representative of actual gameplay elements or powers. Like i think of Prime Trailers. Besides Prime Trailers and Trailers for say like... The New War and cinematic quests, when else do we get Trailers for individual non Prime Warframes?

Then could it have been more accurate? Sure. I think some people just get carried away with their assumptions and instead of being willing to concede their expectations were based off assumptions, they double down and put all fault and responsibility elsewhere. 

Animation doesn't just magically happen, maybe the people working on it didn't have all the knowledge or information. Maybe they their animation strengths, weaknesses, limitations or idea for the animation when fed details, was to produce this particular animation, and trying to make it more accurate was unlikely due to A. Lack of information/details, B. Harder to make work. C. Would have taken longer. 

Again, as far as they take of wanting more accuracy between the animation or "trailer" and the actual Warframe, sure. After all I come to the Forums expecting and assuming to see interesting, nuanced and informed forum takes, and a often left severely disappointed too. So advice for myself? Don't run away with my own assumptions, and if I do? Try to remember they are assumptions, and think about ways my assumptions may have been flawed. 

Final note. Personally and this may be because I am biased towards behind the scenes people, who are often under appreciated. I'd rather have animators have rough ideas and concepts to make animations like this, with their own creative discretion and expertise, rather than trying to be hyper accurate to the gameplay the character will eventually have. Accuracy would be appreciated, but its nor a deal breaker for me. Again, I don't know the behind the scenes specifics of this animation, I don't even know if this was produced in house or... I don't know what info the animators had, how much time they had. Its a whole lot more than we usually get, so I assume it took longer, than say a Prime trailer. I thought it was fine/great. Again... not to imply all others should also find it fine/great.

Looking back at various other "trailers" I see a lot of "inaccuracies", that if one were willing to hyper focus on, could probably lead them to make a lot of assumptions that would end up in disappointment. Again... feeling that way naturally is fine... but beyond that what? Should those animators be fired now? How dare they misrepresent what assumptions some of us had? Maybe we should sue DE for misrepresentation? Lets never have cool animations like this again, otherwise people may let their own assumptions disappoint them.

 

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NightmareT12

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20 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

So...

You expected Warframe gameplay to look like an... anime? We have seen, consistently, that in trailers the gameplay is more like an actual game, while the cut-scene Warframes moved like real super-soldier style beings. Hell, every single Prime Trailer shows the frames doing things we can't actually do and they're around 6 years old for some of them, but every single one still shows the Abilities in use.

Styanax throws his Speargun and throws the spear he summons in the anime. He uses his shield as a shield, yes, but also shield-bashes things because that's what the ability does. We even see his 3, which is a team buff, when he buffs all of the poor kids in that Leviathan monster to help them take control. And his 4 in practice lifts him in the air and rains down energy spears from above, which is literally what the anime did.

Exaggeration? To be sure.

But at what point does animation, particularly anime, ever go under-exaggerated on its fight scenes?

This is precisely the kind of mentality that will discourage DE from doing cool things in the future.

They're simply stating they were expecting a spear and shield melee type weapon from the marketing. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'll just add that I'd encourage DE to give Styanax its already designed spear and shield type weapon as a new weapon type that could work like Garuda's claws (if you equip no melee you can use them), alongside new actual weapons from the same type, sometime in the future when time allows. Could be fun :3

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Birdframe_Prime

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3 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

They're simply stating they were expecting a spear and shield melee type weapon from the marketing. Nothing more, nothing less.

But... why?

What they saw was a frame that threw Energy Spears from the sky. If what they expected from the marketing was nothing more than a brawler, they weren't watching the marketing.

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(PSN)aarott

(PSN)aarott

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I get the shield guy not holing his shield to do some blocking with is disappointing. As a fan of riot-shield-esque gameplay in my shooters, I'm disappointed too.

But as a weeb, I'm super hyped for that Gate of Babylon ultimate. For me, that is sufficient to make up for it. 

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NightmareT12

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13 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

But... why?

What they saw was a frame that threw Energy Spears from the sky. If what they expected from the marketing was nothing more than a brawler, they weren't watching the marketing.

Because a part of the presentation is focusing on the hoplite aspect. For instance, his render, prex card and concept art show him holding his spear and shield as if it was any standard weapon, no different than Titania holding the Dex Pixia or Garuda her claws, just like this:

77alzHJ.jpg

So it's a bit confusing since in the past this kind of material actually represnted something you can do in game.

At the end, from what I understand, Pablo adressed on stream that they gave the animation team a general idea of his concept so they could complete the trailer in time, so it's a risk they took knowingly. Still could be something they can add in the future, like they've done in the past :3

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