Bets on Riven Dispo for Incarnon Weapons?

[Tiltskillet]

What do you guess happens July 27 with Incarnon weapon dispos, particularly the really powerful and seemingly popular ones?

 -  They get hit hard?  ( 0.2 is officially the maximum reduction each update.)

 - They get hit...but gently with soft, loving kisses?

 - Nothing happens to them?  Perhaps DE has forgotten about them? 

 - They raise the dispos!  For Chaos!

 - DE has come up with a brilliant technical solution where dispos for weapons with an Incarnon Adapter installed can be lower than the original weapon's dispo?

 - They announce they're deleting rivens from the game?  (But all Kuva spent on rerolls will be refunded! Yay!)

 - Something else?

Hell if I know,  but my imaginary money is on them punting the whole issue until the next dispo update.   Technically it hasn't been an entire Prime Access Period since they were released, especially the later ones in the cycle, so they can say they haven't gotten enough data yet.  That's a reasonable excuse, anyway.  Although it could have as much to do with being too busy, not wanting to put out bad vibes this PA and right before their first live Tennocon in a while, hoping the world explodes before the next dispo update because that would be a relief compared to dealing with the forums, etc.

What do you think?

[Pakaku]

Probably nothing different than usual. The weapons with popular incarnons will still budge their dispositions by half a pip at most, and DE won't even consider treating incarnon weapons as their own versions with separate disposition levels. So we'll end up with junk weapons reaching low dispositions because maybe you'll install an adapter somewhere down the line.

[EDM774]

19 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Probably nothing different than usual. The weapons with popular incarnons will still budge their dispositions by half a pip at most, and DE won't even consider treating incarnon weapons as their own versions with separate disposition levels. So we'll end up with junk weapons reaching low dispositions because maybe you'll install an adapter somewhere down the line.

[Slayer-.]

Either DE can bugga off and let us have fun with old old old weapons, or at least start the disposition level from 5 at the top, not start at the bottom 0.2 like a new weapon.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I think they really ought to Fix the Glitches with all the various Incarnon evolutions that don't work properly; before judging which is too powerful vs not.

 

Notable standouts:

Galvanized CO scaling off Base Stats instead of Incarnon Stats.

AoE splash effects on hybrid hitscan/aoe weapons (zylok, braton, burston) not being affected by multishot. (shows in UI, but not in-game)

 

and a big list of conditional perks that stay always active regardless of the condition...

Edited July 26, 2023 by (PSN)haphazardlynamed

[trst]

Most likely outcome is for most of them to see near the max drop of 0.2 disposition. Though I fully expect some of the bad ones to see little to no change in disposition, like the Vasto.

But separating their disposition like it's a new weapon variant would be pretty unnecessary since the adaptors are already a direct upgrade for the weapons.

 

Really they could go and drop all their dispositions down to the absolute minimum or prevent you from slotting a Riven on them and it wouldn't matter. As the stat buffs from the Incarnon upgrades leaves them at a gigantic net buff even if they lost a max disposition "god roll" Riven for it.

Regardless, some players gonna be upset when they yet again ignore how disposition works.

Edited July 26, 2023 by trst

[Crevab]

I'm betting the disposition for all variants will drop, but I'm hoping they've done the work to make incarnons their own variant.

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, Pakaku said:

Probably nothing different than usual. The weapons with popular incarnons will still budge their dispositions by half a pip at most, and DE won't even consider treating incarnon weapons as their own versions with separate disposition levels. So we'll end up with junk weapons reaching low dispositions because maybe you'll install an adapter somewhere down the line.

But that is a non-issue, since if someone wants to use the base form to the fullest they'll still get an incarnon adapter for it, since it is a weapon wide buff in either form. So slotting that adapter would techically get you back to the point of the old dispo potential for the base form.

[Skoomaseller]

3 hours ago, Pakaku said:

Probably nothing different than usual. The weapons with popular incarnons will still budge their dispositions by half a pip at most, and DE won't even consider treating incarnon weapons as their own versions with separate disposition levels. So we'll end up with junk weapons reaching low dispositions because maybe you'll install an adapter somewhere down the line.

god rivens are just soooo good am I right fellas

[(XBOX)Cotton Tail]

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

 - DE has come up with a brilliant technical solution where dispos for weapons with an Incarnon Adapter installed can be lower than the original weapon's dispo?

That would be interesting ;-) I wonder (if they went this route) how they would do it - does the dispo change when you put the incarnon on? Does it change when you activate it? And presumably repeat for each variant. Might lead to some interesting calculations; strun could have eight different dispos!

Sorry, just off daydreaming - as you were....

[0_The_F00l]

Hmm , i expect some changes , 

But it will likely not be very high.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

likely nothing major. there's always the possibility that DE decide to make Rivens only affect the primary mode of a Genesis-equipped weapon, in order to keep an additional benefit to the "pure" Incarnon weapons like Laetum and Felarx, but whether or not they decide to do that is unknown. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

I honestly don't see why this is a question.

The weapon usage is going to go up, and the policy with that is that DE brings down the Riven disposition (to a maximum of 0.2 per iteration).

So. Put simply, I think all of the main-use Incarnon weapons, the Boltor, Latron, Strun, Lato, Burston and so on, those will all go down. The ones that still aren't rising in popularity, like the Sibear and Nami Solo, those are going to stay around the same.

In around a year, when we've had a cycle of three more Prime Access adjustments, there might be some significant shift. But we'll see.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Just the usual disposition change, if the usage of some incarnon weapons went up then the dispo will take a hit.

[Numerounius]

Guessing some are going to go down. Probably not the full amount. Keep in mind you have to have steel path and played enough in a certain week to unlock it so the amount of players using any one weapon is going to be a lot lower than suspected but then again look at what happened to the furax family and its riven dispo when amalgram furax body count became a thing for AOEs before it got completely gutted into something else. So guessing it could go down by the minimum for some and maybe even none for some of them.

 

I just hope it makes the incaranon adapter rivens significantly cheaper after the riven dispo, I want to use a ceramic dagger parkour stat stick but the riven cost, just to get additional initial combo, to obtain one is pricing me out of it.

[ReddyDisco]

7 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

What do you guess happens July 27 with Incarnon weapon dispos, particularly the really powerful and seemingly popular ones?

 -  They get hit hard?  ( 0.2 is officially the maximum reduction each update.)

Optimistic and naive me would like to believe none of them are gonna get hit very hard, experience has taught me otherwise

Torid, Latron, Miter, Dual toxocyst, Lex, Strun, Burston are gonna get hit the harshest, and keep getting hit each prime release until they reach 0.55 like all the other meta weapons. 

These riven nerfs really discourage spending time and plat on rivens, i stopped bothering with them.

Edited July 26, 2023 by ReddyDisco

[TeaHands]

Stats will go down a lil bit. Not sure how the community will survive this one.

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I honestly don't see why this is a question.

The weapon usage is going to go up, and the policy with that is that DE brings down the Riven disposition (to a maximum of 0.2 per iteration).

Long term, I think so too.  To me though, what they do -this- dispo update is more of an open question. 

It's more fraught than the average dispo pass because Incarnon Genesis is a new and prominent system.  And, unlike Nemesis variants when those were new, prominent systems, lowering dispo affects weapons that are really bad without an adapter. 

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Cotton Tail said:

That would be interesting ;-) I wonder (if they went this route) how they would do it - does the dispo change when you put the incarnon on? Does it change when you activate it?

Hopefully on installation.  Dynamic dispo on Incarnon activation just sounds too off the wall.  By itself, it also wouldn't account for changes in popularity or in power just from Evolution perks.  Genesis Latron Prime in Incarnon form is super ridiculous.  Outside of Incarnon form it's still a great  weapon, but held back by being conventional ST.  And a lot better than Latron Prime without an adapter.

Not that I expect this to happen.  I hope for something like it, but any big innovation in how weapon dispo is handled seems inherently unlikely compared to DE just doing what they've always done.

[PublikDomain]

Incarnons aren't any different from any other weapon variant, you just switch to the variant mid mission. If it doesn't make sense to nerf the Karak's Disposition because of the addition of the Kuva Karak then it doesn't make sense to nerf the Atomos' Disposition because of the addition of Genesis Atomos' Incarnon form. They're different weapons and sharing a single Disposition makes no sense. That's why Disposition was changed to be per weapon instead of per family back when Kuva weapons were added:

Quote

Going forward, weapon dispositions will be tuned per weapon, instead of per weapon family. For instance, this means a Kohm Riven will have a disposition of 1.4 on a regular Kohm, but only a disposition of 1 when applied to a Kuva Kohm. 

This has exciting implications for the future of Riven disposition changes! In the past, new Prime weapons would cause the usage of a weapon family to increase dramatically, forcing us to reduce dispositions for the entire family. With individual dispositions, we’ll be able to set new dispositions for Primes and other upgraded weapons right at launch, leaving your current Riven build unaffected.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1140336-kuva-weapon-rivens-disposition-process-changes/

If an Incarnon makes these weapons so powerful that they need Disposition changes then it should be in the form of a dynamic Disposition modifier applied when an Incarnon Adapter is installed and/or when the weapon changes forms. IE my Prisma Gorgon silly meme gun stays at 1.3 until I decide to add an adapter, and then it drops to 1.1. When switching to Incarnon form in mission the Disposition drops again to 0.9 and my Riven just applies to that more powerful variant a little bit less like it does for any other variant.

Edited July 26, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Traumtulpe]

9 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I think they really ought to Fix the Glitches with all the various Incarnon evolutions that don't work properly; before judging which is too powerful vs not.

 

Notable standouts:

Galvanized CO

Excuse me, are you talking about "Galvanized-still-bugged-literally-2-years-later-CO"? The mod that was bugged to not work on AoE so DE just retconned it to "be intended" that way months later?

There will be precisely zero bug fixes coming, maybe DE will tell you in 5 years how they always intended for these mods to exclude the base damage from evolutions.

[PR1D3]

Nothing but the Trade Chat Gougers and price inflating cartels will now try to set prices of rivens that used to be reasonable, 15 - 65, to ridiculous levels, 200+.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

Considering there's like 40 incarnons now, I'll guess some will get some serious nerfs in dispo, while others will be hit like a pillow.

[Pizzarugi]

11 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

 - DE has come up with a brilliant technical solution where dispos for weapons with an Incarnon Adapter installed can be lower than the original weapon's dispo?

This is my bet, but it's more complicated.

They'll likely start by not changing the disposition at all so they can gauge the popularity of the weapons after they get incarnon adapters, at which point they'll adjust. This will be an ongoing thing until they implement a system that adjusts disposition between normal and incarnon forms.

[(PSN)v-DEVILSOWN-v]

They be left as is and a buff across the board for everything else 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

Unless they go back on their word, DE set a limit of the max they can nerf a dispo is one round. I'll remain an optimist this time.

6 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Excuse me, are you talking about "Galvanized-still-bugged-literally-2-years-later-CO"? The mod that was bugged to not work on AoE so DE just retconned it to "be intended" that way months later?

There will be precisely zero bug fixes coming, maybe DE will tell you in 5 years how they always intended for these mods to exclude the base damage from evolutions.

Does aptitude still not work on tenora alt fire?