(XBOX)Almighty Deity Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Doubtful. His story seemed fairly well concluded considering what happened next. I'd doubt we see him outside of any new umbral frames to justify their existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)i7081277 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Excal Umbra’s nasty. Like, that’s a person you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelous_A Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 He should appear in TNW considering he was once victim of Lotus' plan and Lotus broke him (literally). I believe he would like to have vengeance too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I'm going to say yes. I find it quite unusual that DE has set a release time period for TNW, especially along what seems to be a disparity with how feature-complete the Railjack is compared to the rest of Empyrean (notably, the barren navigation). So, I'm thinking we're getting Empyrean soon, as they've more or less finished the core system for the Railjack and implemented it into the New War - hence the extremely long delay from 'pre-Tennocon' to 'This Christmas' - they may be done or near-done and are waiting to release Empyrean first for Bug-fixing (don't want game-breaking glitches in a cinematic quest) and Progression reasons since we'd need a good AI crew for solo missions, as Cinematic quests are. There is also potential Story reasons why they might want to hold back. I mean, with Ordis, Cy, Umbra and maybe the Railjack Crew, our Tenno will have a pretty close band, and 'family', potentially. Ties nicely into the stated family themes of TNW, but we'd need time to get that set up first. In which case, I could see Umbra serve as a special crewmember for the New War mission - with Ordis or Cy suggesting that we bring another Warframe and have Umbra come along as well using his independence so we can maximise our firepower. Cue ensemble shot of our Tenno, their frame, Umbra, and their supporting cast, on their way to slay or save the Lotus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ATreidezz Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 We will need him to tame the other umbra frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangsie Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 13 hours ago, Marvelous_A said: He should appear in TNW considering he was once victim of Lotus' plan and Lotus broke him (literally). I believe he would like to have vengeance too. Do you mean Ballas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcaliburUmbra Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I personally don’t believe Umbra has that level of sentience or personality. If they do implement something along those lines then it would be neat though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrow Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 52 minutes ago, Fangsie said: Do you mean Ballas? No, in his intro cutscene, Lotus was the one who destroyed him, she was the purple-grey sentient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrow Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 14 hours ago, (PS4)i7081277 said: Excal Umbra’s nasty. Like, that’s a person you know? That's exactly why I'd like to see more of him, he's not just a (somewhat) mindless husk like other warframes, he doesn't need an operator influencing him do do things, and has his own opinions and values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Dishinshoryuken Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 There is a lot more for Umbra E to do. I still get goosebumps each time I watch that grab out of the void. That is what I want to do to all the void demons. Sever the strings, bring the frames full power to fruition, and the next part of the Orbiter opens to show a room where we can pose our frames in a waiting position from kneeling, one knee kneel, or other choices. And we find out 2nd Umbra has been in the Orbiter this whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeWurrum Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I think we're done with his story. It was concluded rather well, and I don't really see a point in continuing it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateGrr Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 15 hours ago, Marvelous_A said: He should appear in TNW considering he was once victim of Lotus' plan and Lotus broke him (literally). I believe he would like to have vengeance too. Both Lotus and Umbra are products of Ballas's plans. Umbra found out Ballas was going to leak the secret of the Tenno to Hunhow, and was Infested. Hunhow received the information, gave birth to Natah, who was later forcibly reprogrammed in to becoming the Lotus after the fall of the Empire. You can make a pretty convincing argument that the collapse of the Orokin is Ballas getting back at the Empire that made him sentence the love of his life to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, UltimateGrr said: who was later forcibly reprogrammed in to becoming the Lotus after the fall of the Empire. So why is Ballas completely unaware of that fact? In Chimera Prologue, he admits to being fooled by Natah's mimicry, claiming her to be and always have been a double agent working for the Sentients. According to the Lotus in the Jovian Concord, she was reprogrammed by the Orokin - something Ballas, as Executor and clearly in a major role in the Orokin's military, would be privy to, if not in charge of or did himself. Yet, if he was, why would he claim that she was always a double-agent? He'd know that, by removing the reprogramming, she'd revert to her original state. Even if he was fooled prior to reprogramming her, wouldn't her brainwashed state admit to this factor - why would the Orokin not grill a newly-subservient Lotus for information the Sentient's plan and reveal that the Margulis persona was a ruse? Chimera Prologue's theory on Lotus's behaviour and her own don't add up. It makes more sense that both of these groups are being deceived - Ballas being told that she was never anything like Margulis, that she was always a double-agent and Lotus being told the Orokin reprogrammed her. Also, why would DE refer to the plot of the New War as a 'struggle about family and which side Lotus is on' if one side rescued her from brainwashing? Why would anyone, fresh out of brainwashing, entertain thoughts that the brainwashing was better? Unless they are brainwashed into believing they were brainwashed before, and unconsciously realise that fact and are fighting the ones manipulating them - leading to the conscious mental struggle? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nslay Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Opterator is a piece of equipment too, especially after you turn off his annoying and occasional comments noting obvious knowledge like Corpus having robotics and such. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nslay Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Loza03 said: So why is Ballas completely unaware of that fact? Maybe because Lotus was losing her grip over Natah and needed an elaborate way to fool Natah while keeping Natah in the dark of her convoluted masterplan of having us kill Natah. EDIT: As in, Lotus pretended to be Margulis to lure Ballas in to set off this series of events whereby we end up killing Natah and somehow repairing Natah or making a new sentient body for her to parasitize through the helmet. Edited July 21, 2019 by nslay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 1 minute ago, nslay said: Maybe because Lotus was losing her grip over Natah and needed an elaborate way to fool Natah while keeping Natah in the dark of her convoluted masterplan of having us kill Natah. That is another possibility. Schemes within schemes, personalities within personalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloSylraptor Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 1 hour ago, nslay said: EDIT: As in, Lotus pretended to be Margulis to lure Ballas in to set off this series of events whereby we end up killing Natah and somehow repairing Natah or making a new sentient body for her to parasitize through the helmet. If we're going to speculate, I would agree that the helmet would be a good point to focus on. Considering how its been sitting in our personal quarters all this time, right in front of the door, the first thing you see when you enter your room, constantly reminding you its there. Feels like a Chekov's Gun to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nslay Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, veloSylraptor said: If we're going to speculate, I would agree that the helmet would be a good point to focus on. Considering how its been sitting in our personal quarters all this time, right in front of the door, the first thing you see when you enter your room, constantly reminding you its there. Feels like a Chekov's Gun to me. Who made it? What is it (is it the core of another Sentient?)? And how did anyone ever get it on Natah in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrow Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 10 hours ago, (PS4)Dishinshoryuken said: I still get goosebumps each time I watch that grab out of the void That makes me wonder exactly how transference works, and how Excal Umbra was able to just yank us out of transference. The later may have to do with the Kuva used in his construction, though that doesn't explain Kuva's influence on transference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 12 hours ago, Morrow said: That makes me wonder exactly how transference works, and how Excal Umbra was able to just yank us out of transference. The later may have to do with the Kuva used in his construction, though that doesn't explain Kuva's influence on transference. Most likely a visualisation of his will basically overriding the Tenno's and cutting the link. The strangling being considerably less metaphorical. Though I do like the whole 'the arsenal was in first-person view' thing, that was clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)D00M INCARNATE Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 On 2019-07-20 at 2:51 AM, (PS4)i7081277 said: Excal Umbra’s nasty. Like, that’s a person you know? All warframes are people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilChair Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 19 hours ago, veloSylraptor said: If we're going to speculate, I would agree that the helmet would be a good point to focus on. Considering how its been sitting in our personal quarters all this time, right in front of the door, the first thing you see when you enter your room, constantly reminding you its there. Feels like a Chekov's Gun to me. It's a simple equation, really. I take it that the moment when Ballas fried the helmet was the moment the Lotus died (the people who wanna kill "Space Mom" will be sorely disappointed by the lack of an opportunity), hence returning the Lotus to any form of existence would mean taking Natah's head by force and putting it back in the helmet. Though I feel as if the brainwashing happened on either side - on one with the helmet, and on the other, under M O T H E R's influence. I'm thinking that we might have to face a choice similar to the final one in the Glast Gambit - Restore the Lotus (which would mean killing Natah to salvage the CPU/Brain for the helmet), Leave Natah stranded to make her own choices without others' interference (and hoo boy that's a lot of trauma that's gonna get unpacked there once she realises she's got nobody left on her side but her semi-dead dad. it'll be hilarious.), or leave Natah to Hunhow to deprogram her and send her into protective exile forever (unlikely). 6 minutes ago, (XB1)D00M INCARNATE said: All warframes are people. And if the individual idle poses, the Helminth's separate reactions to Nidus and the Operator, and the sword-pull in TSD are anything to go by - with suppressed personalities/autonomy as well. I'm thinking that Umbra can't go into "idle mode" since he's constantly too alarmed to do so when you transfer out. Other frames, I guess, just get some kind of void mask that locks them in place and prevents time from flowing for them, which is how they evade dmg on transference. "Active" warframes seem to possess/run on a mind-meld instead of being purely controlled by the Operator, from what I figure. They seem to have overrides for autonomy when the Operator is in mortal danger (again, the TSD sword-pulling scene), which is, again, how Umbra has his passive, I think - a constant protective fear for the Isaah-surrogate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaero Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) Looks like we're getting "Toggle Umbra parts" very soon. Unfortunately, the scarf isn't separated from the rest of Umbra attachments, so it's all or nothing. Edited July 22, 2019 by Ksaero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 11 hours ago, Ksaero said: Looks like we're getting "Toggle Umbra parts" very soon. Unfortunately, the scarf isn't separated from the rest of Umbra attachments, so it's all or nothing. is it sad i remember that being a suggestion 3+ years ago before umbra was released just glad its going to be a thing soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Viveeeh Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 2019-07-21 at 4:06 AM, Loza03 said: Chimera Prologue's theory on Lotus's behaviour and her own don't add up. It makes more sense that both of these groups are being deceived - Ballas being told that she was never anything like Margulis, that she was always a double-agent and Lotus being told the Orokin reprogrammed her. I like your theory! I had a feeling we knew very little and something's fishy, but I couldn't put this into words. To add something to this line of conversation (even though this is not the original topic of this thread), I've read through the transcripts of Natah, and found interesting pieces of information I long forgot already since completing the quest. When Hunhow noticed his daughter did not completed her mission, he told the Lotus: "You betrayed us. As I awake, so will they. They will say you're riven and want to reclaim you. I will not be able to stop them." So, they have awoken alright, and came for Natah. Maybe her headgear served as a protective device against the sentients invading her mind, and when it was removed by Ballas, her Mother attacked right away. According to the plot of the Second Dream, sentients are able to read minds, so corrupting them is just the next step. This other quote I found interesting is from the Lotus, and is connecting to this topic only loosely: "Natah was the daughter until I destroyed her. Now I am the Lotus. Now I am the mother." Maybe we got this family thing too literally because of our own human standards. Maybe the sentients who are commanding an army of "children" are called "mother". Maybe that's not her literal mom she betrayed by becoming the Lotus, only her war general general of sorts. This still makes her the betrayer of her family, in a sense that a nation (or in this case, race) is kind of one's family. All this is speculation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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