Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems

[bad4youLT]

I dont think we need any abilitys for K-drives unless its some kind of boost to speed or cloack , I agree on gun use , secondarys should be fine as wel las speed buff

[Wyrmius_Prime]

Get rid of the stupid K-drive syndicate and I'll consider using them.

[DreisterDino]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Aldain:

Not really sure this would help make them more viable, but here's some ideas for the 4th and 1st abilities you're missing.

For Flatbelly make it a ragdolling draw in ability by spinning in place (think like that Inaros ability or Vauban's Vortex) for easy collection of enemies for allies (or the player after its done) to blast quickly.

As for Runway, make it like a chargeable Rhino 1, stopping dead to charge up for a damaging bull-rush (toss in some damage reduction while charging/dashing for good measure).

I really like both of the ideas you have there, especially the co-op based ability for Flatbelly!

 

Well, you are right, we cant be sure that they will get used more often, but they will be a real alternative at least.

Thats why i also said that mission-design is a very important factor and that we need to get rid off "stage 1 - travel 1000m - stage 2 - travel 700m -etc"

Also, leveling them would be more effective, there would be a real reason to level them and progress in the syndicate.

 

[Lhudge]

Add a super jump that can cross multiple dozen of meters in a few seconds 

[Aldain]

Just now, DreisterDino said:

I really like both of the ideas you have there, especially the co-op based ability for Flatbelly!

 

Well, you are right, we cant be sure that they will get used more often, but they will be a real alternative at least.

Thats why i also said that mission-design is a very important factor and that we need to get rid off "stage 1 - travel 1000m - stage 2 - travel 700m -etc"

Also, leveling them would be more effective, there would be a real reason to level them and progress in the syndicate.

 

Feel free to tack both of them into the slots if you feel like it, its not like I'm personally invested in em.

And yeah, the randomly large distances between missions is a large reason why people favor Archwings, even if a boosting K-Drive could move at the same speed it would still have to navigate mountain ranges to get there in a straight line.

Another problem stems from them being behind a very slow to rank and boring syndicate...the Ventkids are an utter pain to rank up because the races (which give 5k standing if completed iirc) are randomly spawned and have no on-map indicators as to which are active at what time and trying to get rank by tricks is a slog, nevermind that the mods for these things are also standing locked when most of them are needed to make the K-Drive even remotely useful.

[DreisterDino]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Aldain:

Another problem stems from them being behind a very slow to rank and boring syndicate...the Ventkids are an utter pain to rank up because the races (which give 5k standing if completed iirc) are randomly spawned and have no on-map indicators as to which are active at what time and trying to get rank by tricks is a slog, nevermind that the mods for these things are also standing locked when most of them are needed to make the K-Drive even remotely useful.

Indeed. Thats part of the reason why all i could get myself to is level just one K-Drive to lvl 18 and get to the 2nd rank on ventkids 😄

With my suggestion you would be able to level them through combat and using the abilites aswell (just like you level Archwings and Warframes).

 

vor 11 Minuten schrieb ludo3009:

Add a super jump that can cross multiple dozen of meters in a few seconds 

Idk if i like that, we might end up in the same situation we are in with Itzal at the moment.

I would only add that as a universal passive or universal 1st ability for all K-Drives.

[Elessara1]

Given that K-Drives are essentially cosmetic there should be no reason the devs should force people to use them.  It would be like forcing people to use syndanas and sugatras (to continue the comparison from above).  If few people like them and they aren't being used then DE should just consider it a failed experiment and move on.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Elessara1

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, DreisterDino said:

Indeed. Thats part of the reason why all i could get myself to is level just one K-Drive to lvl 18 and get to the 2nd rank on ventkids

I'm honestly kinda ashamed to admit I brought a K-Drive for plat, if only because ranking up the Ventkids for the parts I wanted (which just so happened to be the 4 components of the daily special) was more of a pain than selling random junk on the market for 57 plat.

But yeah having them have other means of getting xp aside from tricks would be grand start, even if they weren't made combat ready I'd settle for the affinity needs to be dialed back or static per level.

[DreisterDino]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Elessara1:

Given that K-Drives are essentially cosmetic there should be no reason the devs should force people to use them.  It would be like forcing people to use syndanas and sugatras (to continue the comparison from above).  If no one likes them they aren't being used then DE should just consider it a failed experiment and move on.

Well, i think it failed because they didnt do a good job at implementing them.

They provide no reason to use them over anything else and combined that with a MASSIVE and boring grind for standing,

ofc this is gonna fail. And with my suggestion, they will not be "just cosmetics" anymore.

 

BUT, the general idea of adding vehicles to Warframe is a good one imo and can really add a lot of fun to Warframe!

Do you remember how hyped the playerbase was when they first showed the K-Drives at Tennocon/Devstreams? The crowd went crazy 😄

So i disagree, they shouldnt just move on but have a look at why it failed and try to make it better.

Also....how is giving us this option "forcing" anyone? We are not forced to use them now, and you wont when they make them usable and a good and fun alternative.

 

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Aldain:

I'm honestly kinda ashamed to admit I brought a K-Drive for plat, if only because ranking up the Ventkids for the parts I wanted (which just so happened to be the 4 components of the daily special) was more of a pain than selling random junk on the market for 57 plat.

same here^^

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by DreisterDino

[Steel_Rook]

I suppose. Honestly, I feel Laners and Butchers can do with a bit of a pruning, and individual Tusk Grenier colours could use a tad more variety so they're more easily identifiable from each other. But I'm not necessarily opposed to adding a new enemy. Just a bit worried that a dedicated anti-air enemy might end up being a tad superfluous if it doesn't also have ground combat capability. This is why I elected to pick an existing ground combatant. In either case, restricting AA to just ONE enemy type as opposed to "seemingly all of them" would be a step up, regardless 🙂

[Xavori]

How about instead of trying to make them a fighting vehicle, add content specific to the K-Drive that is fun?

See.  I don't understand why we'd need yet another way to fight while travelling.  After all, nobody actually does that if they can avoid it.  So trying to make the K-Drive do that job isn't going to change anything.

Instead, make racing events that a) you can actually see the course, and b) have rewards and challenging opponents.  Make stunt events where you're competing X-Games style to perform the hardest tricks.  In other words, do things that are unique to K-Drives, not try to wedge the square K-Drive into the round hole of mobile combat.

[Elessara1]

2 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Well, i think it failed because they didnt do a good job at implementing them.

They provide no reason to use them over anything else and combined that with a MASSIVE and boring grind for standing,

ofc this is gonna fail.

 

BUT, the general idea of adding vehicles to Warframe is a good one imo and can really add a lot of fun to Warframe!

Do you remember how hyped the playerbase was when they first showed the K-Drives at Tennocon/Devstreams? The crowd went crazy 😄

So i disagree, they shouldnt just move on but have a look at why it failed and try to make it better.

Also....how is giving us this option "forcing" anyone? We are not forced to use them now, and you wont when they make them usable and a good and fun alternative.

 

same here^^

 

Granted I'm probably getting rather nitpicky here but the thread title says "how to make players use them" which kind of implies forcing them which is something they've already tried by make each differently looking board give MR.  Since this didn't work they're now talking about nerfing Itzal which will neither make nor encourage people to use the K-drives.  

If the devs wanted to encourage people (as opposed to make them) to use K-drives there are many things they could do including give the K-drives more functionality as you suggested but right now they seem to be getting heavy handed and are going down the force route.

[Cirayu]

On 2019-04-05 at 8:07 PM, Purrfessor said:

its not the fact kdrive sucks  its the fact any other archwing and kdrives sucks compared to the itzal  specialy movement wise

Because Itzal is known as the fast archwing, we have the average Odonata, Defensive Amesha, Offensive Elytron, and Mobile Itzal, that’s what it does

[DrivaMain]

54 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Why are very few people using K-Drives?

Add :

It’s tied to a Syndicate that has a daily cap and the actual standing gain is Trick Score divided by four. The standing grind is so tedious that most people don’t even bother.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

best solutions IMO:

- make K drives level 4x faster than they do now. they are WAY too slow, to the point where unless you spend 4 hours with a Booster in the Vallis, you've no chance of levelling a K-drive in any reasonable length of time, even if you are someone with plenty of time to play Warframe (so just think how long it takes for casual players). nobody wants to fart around on K-drives for hours, we have Skateboard games and Snowboarding games like SSX and Ring of Elysium for that. we're here to kill massive numbers of mobs en-masse, so it makes sense for our K-drives to help us accomplish this, since Archwings do this as well.

- make some slightly different but noticeable stats. one K-Drive could be slower but harder to fall off if you crash, another could be the opposite: fastest but easy to fall off. there's currently no difference in each of the K-Drives and it makes it super boring as a result. MR points are the only reason to build more boards than the one I use currently, but that's not enough, especially with how long it takes to level the damn things.

- allow us to use weapons on our K-drive, Secondaries at the very least: not only would K-Drive-Bys be pretty fun, but it wouldn't really be overpowered as you're still exposed to enemy fire, and you'd have to slow down while aiming because otherwise you aren't gonna hit squat at full speed unless you use something High-capacity and full auto like Azima. the "cool factor" of this alone should be enough to consider it's inclusion, since that's what K-drives were supposed to be "the cooler way to travel". wouldn't hurt to add a few missions that ask the player to use K-Drives as well.

anyway as for abilities:

Flatbelly 4th: emits a large Healing AoE, but only whilst players are on the K-Drive. those running support would have to drive around dodging bullets to heal their team, but if they allow us to use weapons whilst on a K-drive, you can have an elusive healer that can harass and fight enemies on your side, like a Trinity on Volt's Speed but faster!

Runway 1st: the Board jumps up and fires off projectiles in multiple directions, sort of like the Hyena's typhoon attack. projectiles deal damage that scales based on your Primary weapon.

 

[Birkenhoff]

vor 47 Minuten schrieb DreisterDino:

its slower than Archwings (and restricted to the ground) 

It's slower than archwings even if its speed is buffed because it's restricted to the ground. I wouldn't even use k-drives if the speed is buffed onto archwing level because the shortest way between A and B still is a straigth line.

[Chewarette]

27 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Do you remember how hyped the playerbase was when they first showed the K-Drives at Tennocon/Devstreams? The crowd went crazy 😄

The crowd went crazy when Rebecca shot a bird, then speared a fish, then launched the Archwing in the Plains of Eidolon reveal. Because all that was new. But in the end, that's not the core of the game nor will that ever be.

[wargthewarg]

48 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

We don't need to make them viable. They need to be like Syandanas, use them if you want to, or don't.

Remove the freaking mastery points from that abomination. KDrives are the only non-combat stuff which award MR points, that's as stupid as putting MR points behind Syandanas and Accessories.

As long as they exist, I won't even bother anymore with MR grinding, as I know I'm locked out of 24k (?) unreachable Mastery points.

My thoughts exactly.

MR and leveling Kdrives was a mistake. It instantly made something that you can choose to use for fun or style into a slog. "Oh I'm whipping out my Kdrive, gotta make some stupid moves to maybe sometime level it up". There's no way I'm going to spend time doing what it takes to max the syndicate or finish maxing them up. 

What would have been better was to make races drop the mods. Kdrives should have been instantly maxed and you can run races if you want some mods. Not grinding or leveling. I think that pre-Fortuna DE got too caught up in the "Know what would be funny, lets make players GRIND when they get Kdrives. OMEGALUL"

[Marvelous_A]

In short your suggestion is "making K-drives archwings too"

[FlusteredFerret]

I have no issues with my K-Drives and use them frequently.

 

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

Alternative suggestion:

A) Let us fire guns while on K-Drives

B) Add a +damage mod to K-Drives that increases the damage of any other damage dealing mods to a level that can actually be useful against the tougher bounties.

C) Add a blink mod for K-Drives to help them compete with Operators and Archwings. Do it just like double jump, where doing a trick out of a jump warps you a considerable distance in the direction your aiming.

 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I'm not sure there is anything they could add that would make K-Drives more than cosmetic baubles that take a lot of work to earn.

Their acquisition and leveling is unnatural to the standard gameplay and even with abilities will not be a better option for anything they do over anything else. Archwings were mandatory for missions that were in space, and underwater so leveling them involved natural progression in the game then became far more useful when open-world maps were introduced. Archwing provides abilities with superior movement in the air. Warframes will always be far superior combat on the ground.

They're nerfing Itzal because of the movement advantage. I can beat a K-drive in my sleep with my Zenurik+Naramon Waybounds while Void Dashing. Are they nerfing those next? Because I will continue to Void Dash until I'm out of energy then summon my Archwing mid-air to fly until I can Void Dash again, just as I do now. itzal's teleport is a convenience but it's not responsible for the death of K-Drives. Those were stillborn.

[0_The_F00l]

I don't think they should have abilities that are active,

they should have passive ones

like some invisibility cloak for a few seconds after doing a trick (scales with trick score) 

Vacuum induction to Create a vacuum when in motion - 10/10 will scream " suck on this " while driving through a camp.

Energy transformer that replenishes energy while grinding. 

Shield siphon as you move etc. 

 

And mechanics

Like the ability to shoot weapons (maybe limited to secondary only and you have to actively switch from free form to assault mode) 

And being able to throw board  (imagine sigma octantis throw you will stay airborne while the board returns? Or you just plain dismount ) 

 

Having dedicated abilities is  bit of a stretch though. 

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

I kinda like to be able to use my sword on them. like some sort of space knight.

 

[DreisterDino]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb DrivaMain:

Add :

It’s tied to a Syndicate that has a daily cap and the actual standing gain is Trick Score divided by four. The standing grind is so tedious that most people don’t even bother.

 

vor 26 Minuten schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

best solutions IMO:

- make K drives level 4x faster than they do now. they are WAY too slow, to the point where unless you spend 4 hours with a Booster in the Vallis, you've no chance of levelling a K-drive in any reasonable length of time

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Aldain:

Another problem stems from them being behind a very slow to rank and boring syndicate...the Ventkids are an utter pain to rank up because the races

I kinda forgot that part in my first post, but yes i agree that the grinding for standing and leveling the K-Drives ist just too much (also said that in another reply).

I added this 2 points to my solution-part:

• let us level our K-Drives like we can level Archwings and Warframes
• let us gain standing for VentKids more efficient and maybe also passive with equipped sigils on our Warframe like we can for the regular syndicates

 

I dont think that we need to remove leveling completly from the whole K-Drive-section, but if there would be useful stuff in the syndicate and if K-Drives would actually be useful in itself, i think that less people would complain about grinding for this, especially if the grinding is less tedious.

 

vor 46 Minuten schrieb Elessara1:

Since this didn't work they're now talking about nerfing Itzal which will neither make nor encourage people to use the K-drives.  

 

vor 15 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Riko_113:

They're nerfing Itzal because of the movement advantage. I can beat a K-drive in my sleep with my Zenurik+Naramon Waybounds while Void Dashing. Are they nerfing those next?

I dont know if they will go that far and ill doubt it (for the near future atleast^^), but the possibility exists.

Thats partially why i am making this suggestion. I want to provide some ideas on how to make more players use something else than Itzal. I agree with the everyone who said that Itzal is not the reason why K-Drives havent been a success, K-Drives themselves dont provide enough reasons to use them and the massive grind just adds up to that fact.

. And robotwars7 found some good words for that:

vor 37 Minuten schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

the "cool factor" of this alone should be enough to consider it's inclusion, since that's what K-drives were supposed to be "the cooler way to travel". wouldn't hurt to add a few missions that ask the player to use K-Drives as well.