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Still Excited for Subsuming?


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Still excited. Still disappointed in the community and still got plenty of build ideas i wanna try because #*!% the meta. If i like a frame, im gonna do what fits my playstyle. 

 

Whats funny is brozime and his fanbase is probably having a meltdown now because of the nerfs. Less of those types of ppl, the better

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2 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

And good riddance. Now i can actually experiment with Breach surge or some other fun stuff on Mesa, instead of just plastering Roar on her.

What was stopping you from doing that before? Were the meta police holding you hostage and forcing you to run roar on everything? 

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Nothing happened that was not expected so far. DE nerfed the usual suspects and even the more "profitable" move to reduce requirements to MR 8 didn't change my original plan.

Still feed mouthie until rank 10, unlock all abilities, wait for further patches while forums burn and then start subsuming when everything settles down.

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The problem is that unless those powers are utterly Nerfed into the ground, they are still going to be the best choices. They really need to do a great buffing of abilities, to make others more desirable. 
That being said, Meme builds are still going to be great, and worth it in my opinion, but I'm weird. 

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People still think about the stupid damage nerf abilities when they totally broke the game giving Ivara cloak to everyone. You can just use it  on equinox destroying  everything without being hit once.

Edited by bibmobello
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17 минут назад, TheGuyver сказал:

What was stopping you from doing that before? Were the meta police holding you hostage and forcing you to run roar on everything? 

Oh, I don't know. Probably same thing that forces me to optimize mod loadouts? Same thing that forced me to put Umbral forma on things, and max out primed mods? Same thing that prevents me from running Steel path with Mk-1 weapons? It's called "optimization". An alien concept for an ARPG, I know.

There's no choice when one option is clearly superior to other 50. It's still 1 dominant option. If helminth system is about choice, all options should be brought in line, or at least as many as possible. And, preferably, without eliminating any need for OG frame, which was the case with Rhino. Just slap full-power roar on Revenant and forget Rhino even exists.

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb AegisSiege:

The problem is that unless those powers are utterly Nerfed into the ground, they are still going to be the best choices. They really need to do a great buffing of abilities, to make others more desirable. 
That being said, Meme builds are still going to be great, and worth it in my opinion, but I'm weird. 

That's my biggest issue with these new changes as well. Some abilities are just never worth running, no matter how much they nerf what they consider to be the top 6 abilities. It seems like DE called it a day after a minor buff to well of life and airburst.

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Nope.  And it very clearly shows that they reacted to people who didn't know anything about building or the abilities themselves.  Know how I know this besides the abilities they picked to nerf?  Because they didn't touch breach surge.  Something that is actually outright busted on Garuda and very worth taking on Saryn.  But the community didn't talk about either interactions.  Resonator is also a very strong ability that just had no place on Octavia.  But again, it's not talked about so it didn't get nerfed either.

People thinking DE won't make further nerfs after the community discovers other great combinations are kidding themselves.  We were all aware how much of a slippery slope this system would be.  But we chose to look at the good potential instead of staying with realistic expectations from a confirmable pattern by how DE behaves.  All this has taught me is that I should never come back to warframe ever again.

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Nope, not only most of the abilities in the table are useless, but the only good ones are already nerfed. DE are pussies... They had the opportunity to let the players create their own builds and for the first time in years have fun with the game. Instead they restricted the subsuming system to one set ability per warframe. Spoiler alert, most of them are useless and only a few will be played, regardless how much you nerf them.
1% damage buff Roar is still better than Decoy.

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i still dont understand how people are losing their minds about DE "nerfing" something before they even released it. Its one of the most childish outrages (next to lich back breaking) that ive seen on this forum. 

What irks me most about this "outrage" is that this immaturity only leads to DE being far less open with us about what theyre doing. If they cant release a list of powers with a disclaimer of "open to change and might not be as powerful as you expect" , then what CAN they tell this community? Fluff? We dont even know the numbers yet and people are already "im quitting WF"

People really act like the Devs that CREATE this game and gives you power, is somehow tyring to "take" your power away? How ridiculous is that. You only need and love roar because DE themselves made it. 

Edited by Hypernaut1
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3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i still dont understand how people are losing their minds about DE "nerfing" something before they even released it. Its one of the most childish outrages (next to lich back breaking) that ive seen on this forum. 

What irks me most about this "outrage" is that this immaturity only leads to DE being far less open with us about what theyre doing. If they can release a list of powers with a disclaimer of "open to change and might not be as powerful as you expect" , then what CAN they tell this community? Fluff? We dont even know the numbers yet and people are already "im quitting WF"

Because despite you need to be 17 YO to play this game most of the players are 12 years old or probably 30-40 YO with a mental deficit lol.

Edited by bibmobello
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I stopped being excited after I read the list and realised that all the abilities were of the 'boring but strong' variety. It doesn't much matter to me that many of these abilities are getting nerfed, because for a system like this where I'm replacing an existing ability on my frame, what I really care about is making them more fun to play. That's why I was hoping for Nova's Wormhole or Ash's teleport - utility powers like that are fun to mess around with, and I'd love to have them on my frames.

 

But, alas, Ash and Nova were selected to be the 'strip enemy armour' and '90% damage resistance' frames. I'd even have been pleased with Ripline, to be honest. Movement is fun and movement powers can make it even more fun.

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4 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

"You cannot give Warcry away, Valkyr doesn't have anything else!"

"Giving Valkyr actual abilities besides Warcry is too much work, and nobody would want to subsume any of the others - how about we make subsumed Warcry garbage too? Great idea, me!"

This. 

And i refuse to believe that any of these abikties (except maybe two or 3 scenarios) would be an issue. Rhino can buff the whole team but if another frame gives the exact same buff suddenly then and only then that buff is op? Yeah okay. 

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7 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

That's my biggest issue with these new changes as well. Some abilities are just never worth running, no matter how much they nerf what they consider to be the top 6 abilities. It seems like DE called it a day after a minor buff to well of life and airburst.

This too. Nerfing the "best" abilities doesn't mean several of the others aren't still garbage.

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3 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Because despite you need to be 17 YO to play this game most of the players are 12 years old or probably 30-40 YO with a mental deficit lol.

it feels like when i buy my son toys all of the time, then the one time we go out and i dont buy him some random $90 toy he sees, he stomps his feet and goes "you never get me anything!!" So maybe im triggered because i recognize this perplexing and immature behavior. 

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

This too. Nerfing the "best" abilities doesn't mean several of the others aren't still garbage.

Hey garbage?Do you like to use mesa right? Put cloak arrow and you can shot everything without aiming or being hit (but if they release new enemies able to see invisible frames)!!!

Edited by bibmobello
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18 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i still dont understand how people are losing their minds about DE "nerfing" something before they even released it. Its one of the most childish outrages (next to lich back breaking) that ive seen on this forum. 

What irks me most about this "outrage" is that this immaturity only leads to DE being far less open with us about what theyre doing. If they cant release a list of powers with a disclaimer of "open to change and might not be as powerful as you expect" , then what CAN they tell this community? Fluff? We dont even know the numbers yet and people are already "im quitting WF"

People really act like the Devs that CREATE this game and gives you power, is somehow tyring to "take" your power away? How ridiculous is that. You only need and love roar because DE themselves made it. 

 

15 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Because despite you need to be 17 YO to play this game most of the players are 12 years old or probably 30-40 YO with a mental deficit lol.

Ironic that people giving valid criticism are being called toxic and childish when posts like these not only exist but are getting up votes.

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16 минут назад, bibmobello сказал:

Hey garbage?Do you like to use mesa right? Put cloak arrow and you can shot everything without aiming or being hit (but if they release new enemies able to see invisible frames)!!!

You already can do it. The only thing that can realistically kill Mesa with Adaptation is an odd lvl100 Batalyst spinning through her. Which will get her in stealth just as well.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb (PS4)NeunDrachen:

Still excited. Still disappointed in the community and still got plenty of build ideas i wanna try because #*!% the meta. If i like a frame, im gonna do what fits my playstyle. 

 

Whats funny is brozime and his fanbase is probably having a meltdown now because of the nerfs. Less of those types of ppl, the better

It seemed to me that his main criticism is that there are still so many garbage abilities in the systems that didnt recieve buffs.

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Not really to be totally honest. The nerf mentality seems to be absolutely overwhelming. The power fantasy and interesting builds we COULD have seen have been sacrificed to make the system accessible at MR8, let's just call it what it is, THE veteran system meant to finally integrate our millions of resources has been eviscerated because probably too many MR 8-15 testers were crying about not being able to access it.

I'm 100% convinced we're also going to see a nerf to the damage output of Volts and Oberons Augments because they still show potential of being fun and powerful, so those are next on the chopping block.

Why you'd gut the most rewarding aspect of the third tennocon demo in a friggin row, one that was this much closer to release as well is beyond me.

And please indulge me for a minute here, but at this point i have to openly ask a hostile question: Is the entire point of Tennocon Demos to lie to an audience of 250000 potential customers?

Let me explain on a year by year basis why i'm asking such an offensive question and why it is not meant as devbashing but as a simple pattern based assumption due to the following egregious facts:

Spoiler

 

2018: We're shown an Orb mother, told they protect "Each of the corpus base interests", and "we're not going to show you how to beat that yet". Reality: We get all of 2 Orb mothers over a 6+ month period after Fortunas release, not one per base even though i.E. the Starport clearly has a perch spot for an Orb mother that will probably never be filled. No, i'm not counting the random one sitting in a pool which replaced a crashed ship

We also saw Corpus Railjack and the inert Defense Grid above Venus. We saw Main ship boarding with the scanning of the shield coil and the destruction of a capital ship. The only Grineer Galleon that appears in all of Railjack is a Boss killing location that spawns some missiles, or doesnt. Ship management is a lot less in depth than shown here (no power management, no crew customization, no crew based missions, NO CREW)

2019: We're shown Kuva Liches and Cross.Session objectives. Kuva Liches go from 72 day campaign villains to a boss you grind your face on for about 4 hours of gameplay, with one of four sets of voice files and the original much more interesting lore stuff appearing in broken transmissions with a demo lich name on it, which almost feels like a taunt for what the system could have been. I think the release state of Railjack spoke for itself. Cross Session objectives have been used for one singular story defining event that future players will never be able to play in "their" storyline.

2020: We see the Helminth and within 4 weeks before even releasing the seemingly most substantial chunk of rewards for Heart of Deimos are getting nerfs pre-announced that are apparently so bad you didn't even want to put numbers on them. While at the same time this "most expansive systemic change ever done in the history of Warframe" is suddenly open to everyone who's closing in on The War Within (that's roughly when you hit MR8) and no longer really designed for veteran rewards

If i want to be cynical and apply my new expectations for Heart of Deimos, i'm just going to blindly throw out similar "cutbacks" to other HoD content that now seem hypothetically reasonable: Lets see, there's only the 3 shown versions of Necramechs and you can only mix and match 3 parts each, like the MOAs on launch. The underground caves that "change" in a cycle just have one day and one night version, like the enemies. The underground bounties aren't randomized rooms but prebuilt spaces with the same bounties every time. Did i get any of them right as well? I hope i didn't, but i don't know.

See, that's how easy it is to destroy expectations and hopes by hammering cool sounding stuff with a nerf bat. 

 

Come on. How do you expect this to cause anything BUT gigantic backlash? You keep promising more than tripple of what you deliver, and apparently it's going to be the same again for 2020. The entire "it's closer to release" gratitude and trust is flying out the window with this kind of decision, i mean for goodness sake you managed to get Tactical Potato properly pissed off and he's normally one of the most supportive content creators you have behind you.

TLDR / Here's a revolutionary idea: Instead of nerfing the 6 most "meta" transfusable abilities to the ground / by an undisclosed amount pre-release, how about you just give juicy buffs to the abilities that people are currently NOT using or considering "meta"? And keep the System at MR 15 not because i want to exclude people but because you have people DESPERATE for rewards that deserve the tag "endgame" to chase.

Think it about it this way: If Shy is able to take yet another TennoCon Demo like she did the railjack ones and just beep over features with a big red X because you didn't put them in the game, then TennoCon is just one giant Conjob. I don't want this system to be another emotional letdown to deal with again.

THIS is what i think of when i think of TennoCon at this point: 

 

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