I'm trying to play this game, i really am

[Learicorn]

So like many people here I'm one of those players who got bored of Warframe a while ago and then came back for the New War. For context, I'm MR 29 and have 1791 hours of mission time in this game, but I still have a lot of things to grind, obtain and level that I'm looking forward to. 

I'm not going be discussing the quest or amount of content that came with it because that's just not relevant to the topic at hand, but I want to bring light to a certain circumstance I noticed in Warframe after spending so much time away from it playing other games. 

The circumstance is that this game doesn't want you to play it. Allow me to explain: 

I'm trying to grind the new pieces of content that came with the new update, aka the 3 new weapons and Caliban. I've already grinded the weapons and need one more Caliban part however whether i complete my goal or not, it stands true that most of the time i was grinding this, i was literally just WAITING. To achieve my current goal, i had to NOT PLAY THE GAME. Because the bounties work in cycles, i have no choice other than to minimize the game and wait until what i need comes up. Not only that, but the game is terrible at communicating when I should hop in because i have to actually travel to the open worlds to check what bounties there are, there's no information about them in the orbiter. 

This is when you might say that it's time for me to go grind for other things while I wait, but that's just not comfortable. The fact that this game heavily relies on wikis for me to know how to farm the things I don't have, coupled with the inconvenience of never knowing what exact bounties are active, would just make me feel overwhelmed and anxious the whole time. I would likely end up losing productivity when the bounties i actually want come up due to burnout (I'm not a robot, i can't just do the same thing all day without getting tired) and difficulty of pinning down the exact time to switch activity.

Comparing this experience to literally everything else I've played made me realize how player unfriendly some of Warframe's design is, constantly making the player have to stand around waiting for arbitrary timers that exist for no reason instead of being able to dive into action and you know, experience the game. I have never seen such a circumstance in any other game that I've played. Yeah, sure, multiplayer games will have queues that I have to wait out before a match but the key here is, they're not deliberately implemented to force the player to wait, they're out of devs' control and are simply part of a multiplayer game's nature (it needs people in order to have a match). In Warframe, such timers could very easily be removed. What a bizarre, questionable philosophy DE has adopted. 

I could cite a load of examples of situations in this game where you have to wait out timers but I'm sure everyone knows what I'm talking about (I'm not talking about foundry timers i don't mind those). There is so much of the gameplay that consists of literally JUST. WAITING.

I'm not going to post this on feedback until i know what the community thinks of it. I'm not arrogant enough to try and speak for everyone but please, if anyone from DE reads this, just stop a little bit and think about what you're doing with the game and what I'm having to go through right now. I have the game minimized and am watching Youtube during a time that I set aside to play it. I enjoy this game and the grind, i really do. Just LET ME GO DO IT.

[vanaukas]

18 minutes ago, Learicorn said:

 most of the time i was grinding this, i was literally just WAITING. To achieve my current goal, i had to NOT PLAY THE GAME. Because the bounties work in cycles, i have no choice other than to minimize the game and wait until what i need comes up. Not only that, but the game is terrible at communicating when I should hop in because i have to actually travel to the open worlds to check what bounties there are, there's no information about them in the orbiter. 

it could have the same info that's on the Caliban BP when you are going to purchase it in the market, but... You don't need to wait for anything. Cetus day = Narmer there. Cetus night = Narmer in Fortuna. That info should be more available tho, a little QoL won't hurt and could avoid this situation of people not knowing how this works.

[Leyvonne]

https://tenno.tools/

Pick your platform, click anything you don't want to track at the top bar and you can then check which bounty rewards are available. I don't really mind the waiting since I can just take care of irl obligations during that time.. but when I don't have irl stuff going on and I want to do specific bounties I usually play other games and check that site for the timer on when I should switch games.

[(NSW)Greybones]

A little more QoL towards knowing when things are available wouldn’t go amiss, but timers can be a way to slow the player down and make them stop when they’re going to burn out.

Most of the time we can just bypass the grind with our grinding builds, but timers don’t let us do that, so we’re forced to slow down. Personally, I’d like to see more timers that can slow us down because we don’t stop; maybe the droprates will be a little more friendly. (Also, I wouldn’t mind seeing more distinctive day/night cycles without players complaining about timegating because the cycles are so distinctive)

late edit: More timers, or something to de-incentivise grinding. I’m not sure what though; extra limits? Something to incentivise players to play the game instead of the grind

[Learicorn]

14 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

it could have the same info that's on the Caliban BP when you are going to purchase it in the market, but... You don't need to wait for anything. Cetus day = Narmer there. Cetus night = Narmer in Fortuna. That info should be more available tho, a little QoL won't hurt and could avoid this situation of people not knowing how this works.

I noticed that there was always one bounty available yes, but they were in a cycle and each bounty only has one of Caliban's parts so you'd have to wait nonetheless unless you get lucky

11 minutes ago, Leyvonne said:

https://tenno.tools/

Pick your platform, click anything you don't want to track at the top bar and you can then check which bounty rewards are available. I don't really mind the waiting since I can just take care of irl obligations during that time.. but when I don't have irl stuff going on and I want to do specific bounties I usually play other games and check that site for the timer on when I should switch games.

I've been trying to find a tool like this for a while but none of them were satisfactory, thank you very much

[vanaukas]

Just now, Learicorn said:

I noticed that there was always one bounty available yes, but they were in a cycle and each bounty only has one of Caliban's parts so you'd have to wait nonetheless unless you get lucky

ah, that rotation, my bad then. I agree and we shouldn't had to rely on thir party tools to know this, the same rotation I've talked could have 3 different missions to pick and each one could give one caliban part, so you could still following the rotation they mention on the caliban BP and also fo what you need at your pace. 

[taiiat]

32 minutes ago, Learicorn said:

most of the time i was grinding this, i was literally just WAITING. To achieve my current goal, i had to NOT PLAY THE GAME. 

yeah, that's Warframe for you. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

yeah, the bounty system isn't great. I got the Whip, and 2 of Calibans parts, still need the other 2 weapons and parts... thing is, even once the bounties go from cetus to Fortuna, the rotation is still the same: it's only when the day breaks on the Plains again and the bounty returns to Cetus that it changes to a different weapon Bp and Caliban part.

it's a needlessly convoluted system that DE should never have implemented, because they should have already learned from criticisms regarding Eidolon Hunts and Iso-Vault bounties. I expect they'll make changes to this in January, but right now we're stuck with this terrible waiting game.

[Felsagger]

42 minutes ago, Learicorn said:

......it stands true that most of the time i was grinding this, i was literally just WAITING. To achieve my current goal, i had to NOT PLAY THE GAME. 

 

This is a grind game that is based on resource collecting, trading and RNG. If you find these instances a problem then pick a different game that focus 100 percent in game play. 

 

[Learicorn]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

 

This is a grind game that is based on resource collecting, trading and RNG. If you find these instances a problem then pick a different game that focus 100 percent in game play. 

 

If that kind of mechanic was that big of an issue to me i wouldn't have logged so many hours into this game. The problem is how this specific Narmer Bounty cycle was implemented, it's simply atrocious and it doesn't achieve the goal of having the player log off the game and come back later because we have to actively check if the bounty we need is up. There is no guarantee that simply waiting an amount of time will land us in the correct timeframe. 

[trst]

This is how any game plays out that had cycle/rotation based rewards when the only thing you're after are those rewards and nothing else. Here this only applies to bounties, Sorties, Eidolons, and the reoccurring events or Nightwave if you want to count those. While the entire rest of the game is available to you at all times. And even then if you really didn't want to wait for rotations then the plat trade route is also always available.

If the rotation you want isn't up then you can go farm something else. If there is nothing else for you to farm then this is just the 'unfortunate' result of having already finished a live service game.

[Felsagger]

25 minutes ago, Learicorn said:

If that kind of mechanic was that big of an issue to me i wouldn't have logged so many hours into this game. The problem is how this specific Narmer Bounty cycle was implemented, it's simply atrocious and it doesn't achieve the goal of having the player log off the game and come back later because we have to actively check if the bounty we need is up. There is no guarantee that simply waiting an amount of time will land us in the correct timeframe. 

Looks like you finished a life service game then. 

 

Have gaming sessions with other games. Take a break. Play other games, play the games you are interested. These are meagre rewards that you are waiting for. It's just ordinary rewards that you can have them at any other given time. 

[SpiritTeA]

While I don’t really agree with system we have, I must say, it’s not the worst thing I have ever seen. 

Elder Scrolls Online (*cough* piece of sh*t *cough*) actually you have to BUY DLC/expansion/whatever before you even get an opportunity to grind. Maybe I’m just too biased about over-paying for crap content. But Warframe at least only ask money for grind-skip, so that’s why I’m so loyal toward its system.

[quxier]

13 minutes ago, Learicorn said:

I noticed that there was always one bounty available yes, but they were in a cycle and each bounty only has one of Caliban's parts so you'd have to wait nonetheless unless you get lucky

At least you can farm one part you want. Imagine running 20 minute survival for Harrow and you get wrong Harrow part.

.... still Gara, probably Xaku, Revenant has different level bounties for different parts.

 

They want you to buy their stuffs. That's obvious - they are not charity. However some of the newer "toys" are much harder to get. You get 20 minute survival is basically "wait few rotation". It's not a boss fight where we could be bad at.

Sometimes they make it "ok" but another time it's horrible. Put it in the C rotation, require players to play N minutes etc. Even drop chance for certain resources might be decreased. For example good luck farming Hexenon. It used to be "ok" (Nekros grind).

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

3 hours ago, Leyvonne said:

https://tenno.tools/

Pick your platform, click anything you don't want to track at the top bar and you can then check which bounty rewards are available. I don't really mind the waiting since I can just take care of irl obligations during that time.. but when I don't have irl stuff going on and I want to do specific bounties I usually play other games and check that site for the timer on when I should switch games.

Omg that's so cool! I never knew something like this existed.

[(PSN)Glitschig]

4 hours ago, Leyvonne said:

https://tenno.tools/

Pick your platform, click anything you don't want to track at the top bar and you can then check which bounty rewards are available. I don't really mind the waiting since I can just take care of irl obligations during that time.. but when I don't have irl stuff going on and I want to do specific bounties I usually play other games and check that site for the timer on when I should switch games.

That is amazingly helpful.. thanks for that, Tenno. 

[0_The_F00l]

Yeah , the game has become less and less about playing and more about waiting (or praying to RNG) with time.

[Berzerkules]

Kind of funny they hype a big story quest update then hit you with the same old uninspired bounty farm grind fest that's even more convoluted and time gated than it normally is. 

Bring people back in for big update then make the grind so bad they pay for the gear. Hype>disappointment>profit??? hmmm 

[(NSW)Greybones]

6 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Kind of funny they hype a big story quest update then hit you with the same old uninspired bounty farm grind fest that's even more convoluted and time gated than it normally is. 

Bring people back in for big update then make the grind so bad they pay for the gear. Hype>disappointment>profit??? hmmm 

Alternatively they could make the grind tantalisingly easy, and then due to the nature of RNG we could be sitting there wondering whether the system’s broken because we ground so hard at a cost of fun that it’s impossible that we won’t get the thing the next time we complete the mission 😛. “I aint gonna pay to skip, the odds are in my favour now and that’s the coward’s way out!” *another few hours of grind later* “I hate everything”

[Berzerkules]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Alternatively they could make the grind tantalisingly easy, and then due to the nature of RNG we could be sitting there wondering whether the system’s broken because we ground so hard at a cost of fun that it’s impossible that we won’t get the thing the next time we complete the mission 😛. “I aint gonna pay to skip, the odds are in my favour now and that’s the coward’s way out!” *another few hours of grind later* “I hate everything”

Yeah, I ran bounties for a couple days and got no drops. I checked loot table and saw the 5.45% rare drop on Caliban/weapon blueprints and noticed the endo drop was bugged. 

I hit the market about 1 minute later. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 hours ago, Learicorn said:

So like many people here I'm one of those players who got bored of Warframe a while ago and then came back for the New War. For context, I'm MR 29 and have 1791 hours of mission time in this game, but I still have a lot of things to grind, obtain and level that I'm looking forward to. 

I'm not going be discussing the quest or amount of content that came with it because that's just not relevant to the topic at hand, but I want to bring light to a certain circumstance I noticed in Warframe after spending so much time away from it playing other games. 

The circumstance is that this game doesn't want you to play it. Allow me to explain: 

I'm trying to grind the new pieces of content that came with the new update, aka the 3 new weapons and Caliban. I've already grinded the weapons and need one more Caliban part however whether i complete my goal or not, it stands true that most of the time i was grinding this, i was literally just WAITING. To achieve my current goal, i had to NOT PLAY THE GAME. Because the bounties work in cycles, i have no choice other than to minimize the game and wait until what i need comes up. Not only that, but the game is terrible at communicating when I should hop in because i have to actually travel to the open worlds to check what bounties there are, there's no information about them in the orbiter. 

This is when you might say that it's time for me to go grind for other things while I wait, but that's just not comfortable. The fact that this game heavily relies on wikis for me to know how to farm the things I don't have, coupled with the inconvenience of never knowing what exact bounties are active, would just make me feel overwhelmed and anxious the whole time. I would likely end up losing productivity when the bounties i actually want come up due to burnout (I'm not a robot, i can't just do the same thing all day without getting tired) and difficulty of pinning down the exact time to switch activity.

Comparing this experience to literally everything else I've played made me realize how player unfriendly some of Warframe's design is, constantly making the player have to stand around waiting for arbitrary timers that exist for no reason instead of being able to dive into action and you know, experience the game. I have never seen such a circumstance in any other game that I've played. Yeah, sure, multiplayer games will have queues that I have to wait out before a match but the key here is, they're not deliberately implemented to force the player to wait, they're out of devs' control and are simply part of a multiplayer game's nature (it needs people in order to have a match). In Warframe, such timers could very easily be removed. What a bizarre, questionable philosophy DE has adopted. 

I could cite a load of examples of situations in this game where you have to wait out timers but I'm sure everyone knows what I'm talking about (I'm not talking about foundry timers i don't mind those). There is so much of the gameplay that consists of literally JUST. WAITING.

I'm not going to post this on feedback until i know what the community thinks of it. I'm not arrogant enough to try and speak for everyone but please, if anyone from DE reads this, just stop a little bit and think about what you're doing with the game and what I'm having to go through right now. I have the game minimized and am watching Youtube during a time that I set aside to play it. I enjoy this game and the grind, i really do. Just LET ME GO DO IT.

Pay with time.  Pay with money.  Or split the difference.

You are a self-fulfilling prophecy when fixated on the gear decrying how much you enjoy the grind.

So alternate your grind.
THAT’S what DE wants. The time you pay for goes by as you enjoy grinding something else.

But you went away for a while once before.  Was it because you powered through and got all the gear you wanted and got burned out or frustrated there was nothing left to do or that you wanted to do?

You see how you self-fulfill either way?

No clanmates to have fun with?

If you enjoy playing you’ll stay.  If you fixate on the gear you’ll either leave because you got it too fast and nothing left or you’ll leave out of frustration due to time-gated techniques designed to prolong both play and gear acquisition.

So be honest and find your path.

[Lutesque]

6 hours ago, Learicorn said:

For context, I'm MR 29 and have 1791 hours of mission time in this game

Wow... That's actually impressive 😮 !!!

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

The game's model has never changed. NEVER. Longer playing players that think DE has gotten better or worse are missing the core of the system. Everything is based on as much variety as possible, gear collection included. Some are extremely easy to get while other a are rng nightmares. We don't HAVE to get everything and DE has done a great job of making 99.5% of every weapon and frame viable, powerful and engaging.

Long time players who leave and return usually have the worst time if they are collectors/rush players and the best time if they are lore and explorers. 

[Soy77]

9 hours ago, Learicorn said:

I have never seen such a circumstance in any other game that I've played. Yeah, sure, multiplayer games will have queues that I have to wait out before a match but the key here is, they're not deliberately implemented to force the player to wait,

it seems you haven't played a lot of games.

or at least free 2 play games.

 

these kind of games actually relies on daily logins to stay alive.

if you remember the daddy of all free games who started it all: candy crush. you'll remember how it limits how many times players could play in a day.
that wasn't a coincidence game design. it's a well thought design to exploit how human brains are wired, and multiple studies have confirmed it.

some individuals might disagree, but the general theory consensus is it keeps people coming back everyday, and it has been implemented by countless free 2 play games worldwide.
warframe is no different. instead of playing all day long and successfully farmed everything you need today, they need you to login tomorrow instead, so this is what they do.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

With the sheer amount of rng, stuff and quests to do in this game it literally doesn’t need timers at all. This game is so bloated that IMO it would benefit greatly in reducing timers, especially in-terms of quest related things.