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[DE]Rebecca

Why Do We UI Like We UI: Part II?

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Mind reverting the relic menu tabs to "Lith" "Meso" "Neo" "Axi" instead of having the weird symbols with a mouse over to see what tier their are? Also adding a SIMPLE Vault icon on the relics that are currently vaulted instead of a mouse over AND Tab press to check. Function over form.

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It's nice that we're getting these UI improvements, and I don't want to be all "inches and miles"-y, but I feel there's still a lot of old feedback about 'minor' things that should be addressed too. Regarding the controller-friendly UI pass, what are the chances of being able to remove WASD control of the UI? I compulsively tap keys and it's a pain in the rear to have my cursor slide around the place because of it. Also having the mouse appear in the direct center of the screen for every popup gets disorienting. It's one of those side effects of the 'unified interface' thing but I find it makes the UI a lot more awkward to use. It'd also be nice if the overall amount of popups was reduced, like "thank you for contributing". Why do I need to click a confirmation for that?

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

There is currently no word on this.

I wish there was. I've been hoping for it since U14, and I've not heard any response about it besides this. Hopefully it'll be considered.

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1 hour ago, PookieNumnums said:

How about when selecting mods, be it for fusion or dissolving for mucho endo, we get [hold click] to select the entire stack, and let single click only select 1 and bring up the amount box. 

This way i dont have to click mod, click arrow for all, then click ok. 

Also. Hold click might be good for foundry to craft items instead of click then click to confirm. 

Also. Fusion. Hold to fuse selected mod spending as much available endo as would fit. Rather than click mod, click fusion, click click click click clickety click click to select all levels, then click yet again to confirm. 

Also, refining relics. A simple hold to radiant or even hold to equip, instead of click to select, click to select refinement level, click twice again to refine and confirm, then click equip, then click to confirm. 

So much clicking omg ... 

Thicc cliccs m8. 

@[DE]Rebecca

If you are using K&M, you can middle-click on a stack to select all. I don't know how to select all on controller.

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Well, these are certainly some positive changes!  I quite like the new weapon screen.  I'm also glad the hold to confirm is going to be used more judiciously.  It has its place where it serves to prevent accidents in the heat of the moment, but can really feel awkward and clumsy when used everywhere.  I look forward to seeing the new version of the mission rewards screen, and to the improvements to controller support.  That's been something of a sore spot lately after the issues with Railjack controls.

That said, it's great to see designs iterated on.  Here's hoping these changes will improve the experience for everyone.

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put mastery icons back on the in-orbiter market. i'm not making a document to track something that the game is already tracking and doing a poor job of surfacing. thanks!

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4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Item Details: Detailed Purchase Dialog

 

This screen actually starts with a story - the day we had our Dev Workshop review meeting, we also released the Kuva Nukor, Kuva Hind, and Kuva Bramma. Players immediately began chat-linking these items to view their details. All Stats are hidden behind a ‘hover’ on About, and thus we had a perfect day to make a decision on the changes for this screen since we could watch in real-time how players interacted with the new content.

As a result, we will be re-tooling this screen to be less hover-dependent and provide stat information at a glance, as seen here in this mockup: 

DPD.jpg

Can we please also add something to the market place to indicate if a weapon is used as a component for a different weapon.  That is info that that would be great for new players (that is one of the things that would be fine with a mouse over as long as there was some indication)

I think the reason why some might still view this as cluttered is not cause of the amount of info but the concentration of the info.  We have over 2/3rds of the screen that is just a diorama with all the useful info shoved on top of each other on the one side. While the frame holding the weapon looks very nice it isn't being useful, since it is just spinning with no control over it if I want to look at the weapon itself, plus in this case the weapon should be the focus not the frame and the weapon.

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I'd like to put forth that I still REALLY think the ability screen should also be more expanded by default. There is absolutely no purpose to the screen except to see information on abilities, which there are only four of and the current format is already DESIGNED to have space for all of them side-by-side simultaneously. None of the arguments in the previous thread seemed to actually give any reason or justification for this beyond "well, it's like a conversation! with the most deliberately obtuse person possible."

Especially as frame design moves increasingly towards synergies and interactions between abilities, it just makes the most sense for them to all be visible at once for comparison and cross-referencing. Maybe have the video clips paused unless the ability is hovered hover, if there are concerns of overwhelming visual noise from them all playing at once.

Edited by OvisCaedo

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Item Labels.
This is a good change(revert) and is long overdue. No more complaints.

‘Hold to Confirm’ Experiment.

Nice thats its getting added to the "Abort Mission" button, if you are planning to keep it in some cases; a couple of areas I can think of that would benefit greatly from having this are:

i. When consigning Kubrows/Kavats to the "Puppy Blender" . . . . .  I mean, to the Lotus

ii. Converting a Larvling into a Lich. (I have seen quite a few ppl accidentally press "X" on the larvling due to it being the same universal "action" button to open doors, pick up data-mass, revive team-mates, revive pets, pick up medallions etc etc that all have the chance to be next to a larvling you do not wish to convert)


Controller-friendly UI Pass / Improvements
When moving the cursour with a D-pad (or WSAD keys on PC) can we have an instant priority if we move the mouse? It gets very annoying trying to move the cursour if we accidentally tap the WSAD keys as we have to wait for the cursour to finish moving to its final position before we can move it with the mouse again. Increasing cursour speed would help with this, but prevention is better than cure.


Item Details: Detailed Purchase Dialog
Looks promising. One small reccomendation, can we center-align (and underline) the fire mode's title so we can more easily differentiate between fire modes EG:

unknown.png



End of Mission
The fact that this will save your preferance for full/minimalistic view is truly a godsend. A++


Mastery Icons:
I truly hope you decide to keep the current Lotus emblem that we have grown to love over the past several years of Warframe. Seeing the logo evolve as you progress through your mastery feels a lot more unique to Warframe than a generic bland gold banner placed around your profile picture. At the very least incorporate it into the current one a little (I have little to no skills in editing images, so heres a 30 sec MS paint idea)

unknown.png

Bonus: Forge All! 
Instead of this, can we get an option for "Auto-Forge" that automatically refils all your armamants upon returning to dojo? Maybe replace the Engineer Rank-9 Intrinisic "Surplus Yield"? As it stands, this trait currently only gives us an extra 10% resources when 'refining' which means we get a maximum of 20 resources from a fully stocked 'refine' since the forge only holds up to 200 resources collected. Compared to the THOUDSANDS of these resources we farm after just a few runs, this trait currently feels it is just a waste of intrinsic points.

Changing this trait to "Resupply: Automatically forge a full ordnance when returning to your Drydock" will solve this problem. By the time you get to this tier of intrinsics, you generally have a surplus of these materials stocked so using around 25-200 would be no real loss(If a player does not have the materials stocked then ofc, set it to not re-arm their ship) We don't need to pay to refill our ammo upon retuning to our orbiter after each mission, why make us do it for our Railjack?

Edited by Teitaka
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MODDING AND ABILITIES SCREEN

I think everyone already talked about this, but I'll just tell what I think: yeah, the old abilities screen was a lot better. We've got some compensation in the abilities on the modding screen, but the thing is, you still have to fly the mouse over all the abilities to check out how one mod affected all the abilities - and I think we should see the changes immediately. Like a little table that shows all the abilities right there, on the modding screen itself. And when you put a mod that changes the stats, you can see everything right from the get-go.

ARSENAL, INVENTORY

Right now it's a great pain in the butt when you literally can't just see what weapons in your arsenal have a potato.

Also, it would be great if we could just access inventory with one button, because it really gets old when you can't just sell trash blueprints from the foundry or mastered weapons from the arsenal. Or just give us the ability to sell stuff from the foundry and arsenal. And why can't we see how much slots do we have in the arsenal itself? That's just too much, man.

MASTERY RANK TEST

Pablo already talked about this in the dev workshop post, but I think it should be addresed more obviously: when game proposes us to take a test for the mastery rank, it would be great if just under it we had a clickable link to the training mode, so we could just practice the test, until we feel confident enough to try and pass it. And it should be a really big button. Also, it's really, really annoying that we have fail-states in the practice modes. Mastery rank test, where I had to rescue a hostage and kill a lot of guards with just melee just made me tear out my hair in frustration. Figuratively, of course, but still. Why just not make the practice mode infinite, but if the player passes the test, you just show a prompt, if the player wants to leave practice? It would a lot more practical. Just look at Hotline Miami. You're killed dozens of times, but all it takes to reset you is just one press of a button. No awful loading times and screens.

SIMULACRUM

I don't actually use it at all, but I've seen from the videos that there is still no dedicated button just to reset all enemies, so everyone has to waste time to go back to the console and reset them manually. And yeah, it's already year 2020, and we still can't test the modular weapons. Why? I can't just decide if I want this combination from the sheer number, I need to feel it! Please, DE, allow us to build kitguns, zaws and amps in Simulacrum to test them out, I beg you.

As we talk about combinations, we don't have a market mode, where we can just try out everything we want. It could be tied to Simulacrum, actually, and really would improve a lot of things - for example, I want to try out different combinations of cosmetics, but I have to buy everything separately and I don't know if it will look good.

MARKET, CODEX, LEVERIAN

Back to Market: for some reason, Leverian is buried there. Wouldn't it be a lot better if he was situated in the Codex? When I was a newbie, I actually read every article there was to understand what to do in the game. And yeah, why we still have this annoying ???? in the Codex for mods? I want to know what every mod does and I will - I'll just have to link it in the chat, and yeah, it will waste my time, so why do we still have it? It does absolutely nothing? And it would be really, really good if you could select the mod and then click on the names of the enemies and modes below, just to check out where should we farm this mod. And drop chance with actual numbers instead of just color - I mean, "Bite" drops from Kubrow really rarely, but I have to go to the Wiki just to realize it's 0,01% drop chance. I need those numbers to realize, should I invest in the grind or not. Also, to have some system to sort mods out would be great - for example, I don't want to see the augments at all, because I just to want to check out mods that are only farmable from the enemies. And can we have the separation of enemies in the Codex? Keep usual ones and the ones from Railjack separate.

FOUNDRY

Talking about clickable, this shoud apply to the foundry to. Sometimes you don't even know where resources that we need come from - and it would be really great if we could click on them and get the information, where or from whom they drop. Like, just this week, I was building Gauss, two of his parts require materials from the Venus, but the third one needs stuff from Cetus. And I really didn't know that and I went to Fortuna just to realize that I had to go to Cetus.

Yeah, you could just say 'read the Wiki!', but come on, everything should be in the game and it should be transparent, so everyone can understand how to get things they want.

FISSURES SCREEN

It would be actually great to see how much parts from the set you have - so there won't be situations, when you need two parts for something, but the screen just shows you that you already own the thing. Just make it like a little window, where under or above every prime part you see information, from what set this part is, how much parts do you have, etc.

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speaking of Controllers & UI, please.... let me disable all Controller related interactions when i'm not even using a Controller. it's ridiculous that i can have my Cursor taken hostage of by Controller related controls even when i'm not using one. why can't i turn this off.

 

one less hover Tooltip required for basic things, good.
however please also add some line spacing to Weapon Stat sheets, in all locations that you see them. just a few groups would massively increase legibility. there's a reason why we have line spacing and Line Breaks when we write books, and this is no different.
it doesn't even have to be a lot, half a Line of spacing between groups of like-Stats would already go a long way.
this should also go hand in hand with changing the order of Stats on these sheets to put.... like Stats next to each other. such as, why is Magazine and Reload not next to each other, why is Accuracy and Fire Rate not next to each other, Et Cetera.

here's a thought though - for Chat Links that are just to Weapons/items, what if, the Chat Link had a Tooltip? this is a case where a Tooltip might actually be desirable, say if you only wanted to look at the Stat sheet of a Weapon, you wouldn't need to click on it then, you could just see the sheet on a Tooltip.
but it's still a link, so if you wanted the full Market Diorama, you'd still be able to click the link.

also, can i make a suggestion? rather than two lines for Plat/Credits, perhaps it could all be in one line, so that there could be more space for the Stat sheet?
ex.
bXvhmOP.png
i didn't resize anything there, just a visual aid - it could be resized to conform to the width of the rest of it. but that could leave space for another few lines of Stat sheet.

 

 

maybe Mastery Icons could have a design that allows having the number built right into it? then there would be no question about what number the icon refers to.

Edited by taiiat
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One step forward but still a mountain to go because of years of ignoring the feedback on the lack of information in favor of wasted space and blank screens with giant dioramas and no information.

Just wondering where is the part where you guys remove every single stance of "TAB" and "HOVER HERE TO SEE USEFUL INFORMATION" while 90% of the screen is a literal blank space that could easily hold all the item stats while leaving most of the screen unaffected, with the focus being in the item model, which is being hidden by Wisp's COLOSSAL BEHIND because we cant move, rotate or control the camera and the damned thing keeps rotating in this annoying way while your frame keeps playing the idle animation and hiding the item every time the camera moves?

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6 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

If you are using K&M, you can middle-click on a stack to select all. I don't know how to select all on controller.

Kbm yes and i had zero idea! 

Thanks for the hot tip

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10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The addition of Hold to Confirm is going to be placed in the ‘Abort Mission’ screen (on death) to prevent accidental Mission aborting, as well as remain in the real-time Railjack Payload and Refine management. 

That's still annoying. I've already moved my mouse to the "button" to select it, I don't need to confirm it a second time. This really ought to be an option.

Either that or open up the UI for client-side modding. Then we'd never bother you again.

Oh, and

10 hours ago, Voltage said:

On items that have more than 1 fire mode, melee with heavy attack stats, etc., can the stats for each version be detailed side by side?

This image is not bad, but it still has three quarters of the screen showcasing your Warframe instead of potentially valuable stats.

I already know what my warframe looks like. I see it all the damn time. If I go to a weapon selection screen, I expect to see details about the weapon.

Continuing with the "conversation" metaphor last time, doing it in this way is like asking someone for directions and them stopping halfway through to start saying how nice their car is and how wonderful it is that they went to Belgium last week.

EDIT: sure, that might be interesting once. ONCE. The thing is, you designed this game. You know full well how much repetition you plan on having us go through. There is zero justification for actively getting in the players' way at this point.

Edited by DoomFruit

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You know where "hold to confirm" really, really, REALLY needs to be?

Life support towers, defense operatives, rescue targets, syndicate operatives, and especially the damn Eidolon Lures.

I cannot count how many times I've tried to reload my weapon and either ended up handing it to an operative, or ended up making something stay put when I didn't want it to stay put at all.  I wanted to reload my weapon.

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It'd be awesome if we could see an option to turn off the presses of w, s, a or d keys taking control of the mouse cursor when in menu screens and not giving control back until it goes to a particular item the game thinks we want to select.

An example: you'll be moving your mouse cursor on the screen & with resting your finger on any of the direction keys, the cursor gets ripped from your control & goes flying off to a part of the screen (you likely weren't intending to focus on).

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10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Item Details: Detailed Purchase Dialog
This screen actually starts with a story - the day we had our Dev Workshop review meeting, we also released the Kuva Nukor, Kuva Hind, and Kuva Bramma. Players immediately began chat-linking these items to view their details. All Stats are hidden behind a ‘hover’ on About, and thus we had a perfect day to make a decision on the changes for this screen since we could watch in real-time how players interacted with the new content.

As a result, we will be re-tooling this screen to be less hover-dependent and provide stat information at a glance, as seen here in this mockup: 

 

Finally!

Now I'm really looking forward to this update.

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Thank god. Especially on the mastery symbols. The concept ones were good. I just didn't feel like they fit into the setting as well as the current ones do. I also don't feel it would have actually improved anything. It's still a big symbol with a number on it. The concept ones just also had a player's glyph inside of it and that just sort of felt tacky to me. Currently the mastery symbols are like a badge next to my name. It'd feel weird if my face was on it.

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Ok, so we've been through round two of this now and I've yet to see this one addressed officially. When are we finally going to get a proper clock of sorts displaying all the various time sets we need to keep track of at this point. Why all rights, the star chart should have a nested clock chart of sorts much like the fissures that lists time until night for plains and all the various timers we're on. I would highly suggest the inclusion of a Baro timer and a daily rollover timer on that as well.

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12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Controller-friendly UI Pass / Improvements

Sidenote, but fix the official Steam Big Picture controller config.
Tried playing through steam link on a wireless xbox controller and melee was broken.

13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

End of Mission
As we work on the re-design of this screen, we will ensure there is an expanded version of the screen you can access. Once you choose this expanded version, the game will remember it and only present you with this version of the screen for future missions, until you choose to collapse it again.

Good change, thanks.

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Thank you again for going about these changes in this open manner. 

Even though I don't share the same gripes about hold-to-confirm prompts, I can see that you are listening and appreciate it.

Concerning the things mentioned in this segment of the workshop, I don't really have any additional feedback. These changes seem good.

I hope to see a similar discussion take place when it comes time to redesign some other core menus, like the arsenal, mod screen, or foundry.

 

Since you're already editing the generic [chat-linkable] menu for weapons, might I suggest revising these menus for other manners of linkable items? I know this has been an ongoing process.

Some quick suggestions:

  • [Riven Mods] could benefit from some of the features on the Cycle Riven screen: the ability to swap their stats display by weapon variant, and preview them when ranked.
  • [Mods] in general are looking pretty bare right now, and the codex has a feature that lists their drop locations. Maybe you could find a way to get these to mesh?
  • [Warframe parts] could display the build costs of their blueprints. Alt helmets and buildable skins too.

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Good stuff all around, except:

13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Mastery Icons:
These are being iterated on and we will have more to show soon. 

This really should simply read: "Are going to stay unchanged."

Edited by SordidDreams

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