Day after day, more people are subsuming out Protea's temporal anchor...DE should make it more important, how?

[Eluminary]

Gloom should just be her 4... it fits her better in everyway and it even fits with her theme, instead of reverse time just stop it almost entirely

[SneakyErvin]

TA will never be worth using aslong as it resets your position, it has the same exact flaws as the time revert ability that the Trickster has in Outriders (which nearly works the same minus the damage). Both games are "constant movement" games, a skill that effectively sets you back several seconds, sometimes up to 30 seconds or more of gameplay just arent worth having in such games.

And I gotta say, adding some odd speed buff to the skill wouldnt really solve anything, it would also not fit the theme. Protea's idea is about manipulating time, increasing her speed has nothing to do with that. So you'd trade a themebreaking helminth swap-in for a default themebreaking skill alteration, which in the end would also be replaced with a helminth option. So what would it really solve in the end?

What they should do is probably remove the actual rewind, freeze the duration of her 3 turrets while anchor is active and then have her anchor spot simply be a self rezz location incase she dies. This would let the turrets scale a great deal during anchor, far beyond what they can currently do, resulting in anchor being a good damage boost to her kit. Heck, anchor could freeze the duration of all her abilities when it is active, kinda like Xaku's #4 which would fit so well on Protea.

[vegetosayajin]

19 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

What they should do is probably remove the actual rewind, freeze the duration of her 3 turrets while anchor is active and then have her anchor spot simply be a self rezz location incase she dies. This would let the turrets scale a great deal during anchor, far beyond what they can currently do, resulting in anchor being a good damage boost to her kit. Heck, anchor could freeze the duration of all her abilities when it is active, kinda like Xaku's #4 which would fit so well on Protea.

that sounds way too tasty to make it into the game
hope it does tho, good idea

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

You all know you can ass-can the replay by holding it.

I've only replaced other Warframes' abilities with Protea's dispenser; Protea, I've left untouched.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

remove the actual rewind

No thanks.

[STUVash]

If there was no forced knockdown upon losing all health during Temporal Anchor I'm sure everyone would use it more.
Even with knockdown immunity or faster knockdown recovery you still have to suffer all of it with nearly 0 Health left.
Meanwhile Sevagoth's Shadow can die and Sevagoth won't suffer any Health loss, any knockdown, any stagger, and it cost 0 energy.

I would have been fine with the knockdown if mods could change how it works in some way but nothing I tried worked.

[Vaml77]

On 2021-04-19 at 4:49 PM, Wolfdoggie said:

Day after day, more people continue to never ever use Hydroid, ever. DE should make him more important as a priority above all other frames as veteran priviledge cuz he's old as the ocean.

I dont see problems with hidroyd...just skill 1 and passive needs some love.

[_junguler]

i replaced it with larva because it wasn't getting any use, it's annoying to have control taken away from you in a game with this many options and play styles.

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2021-04-19 at 12:45 PM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Replacing Something like paralysis from Valkyr, is ok because it's not an impactful power for Valkyr's theme, or kit.

The fact that it's not impactful is a problem.

[(PSN)thegarada]

On 2021-04-19 at 4:12 PM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

speed and mobility.

i said people would still probably replace it, because some don't care about mobility, just like some people replace mach rush or tailwind for more damage.

but these aren't the majority, and my point still being that i wish TA had something the other abilities don't have

But the question is, is it needed? It does not work as a straight mobility buff. You cannot use it in many situations. And Protea has more than enough mobility without it. It is not a question of people deciding to drop this skill, but if everyone who decides to use the helminth drops this specific skill, then this skill has a problem.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

You could make it so any ability you use while it's active has its timers reset due to the rewind, including your Shield Satellites if they happen to get destroyed (I'm referring to all cases in general, just make it a standard refresh so we can eliminate the weird mini-game aspect of it). So something like place down Blaze Artillery, and as time is rewinding, so does the Duration on it, but you're still stuck with the three turret limit. That would mean that if the turret duration expired during Temporal, it would have some slight downtime before coming back, and the whole "rewind" portion would allow the turrets and other abilities to drain in terms of Duration to not allow it to go forever.

It would also make more sense for the ability to only ever be a net positive, at the moment the ability can revert you to less Health or Shields, when it should refresh everything for you instead. You can drop Power Cells you picked up, or revert back from Transference, because the ability is weirdly literal and not very forgiving unlike most games that feature a "rewind" feature. Melee attacks are also added to this, instead of the rewind maybe just counting your movement to simplify it and remove little irritations like that.

That, and while I understand the "rewind" effect is cool aesthetically it just ends up being annoying in regular gameplay. It incentivizes staying still to avoid the overly long animation and actively punishes you and your abilities if you place things down before, which again is just annoying and doesn't make much sense.  Just make it a straight-up benefit under all circumstances that actually synergizes with Protea's kit and it'll be fine. Remove any unnecessary animations outside of just moving and make the rewind occur at your current location so it won't revert your progress. 

[SneakyErvin]

On 2021-04-20 at 1:22 PM, vegetosayajin said:

that sounds way too tasty to make it into the game
hope it does tho, good idea

Well Xaku has it and it works well for the stolen weapons, which with a proper build hits as hard as turrets with a shorter range but added mobility, plus it only requires one cast to max out instantly and keep nearly infinitely with another. So I hope DE realizes it wouldnt be too far fetched on Protea.

On 2021-04-20 at 4:24 PM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

No thanks.

Then the skill will keep getting replaced since the rewind is what kills it. Sure you can avoid it by holding, which removes half the use of the skill, which is the nuke. Traveling back in an always forward moving game is pointless, and using it for the energy sustain which can already be solved in so many different ways feels very weak and redundant for a #4. The whole time manipulation rewind gimmick can be there in some other way, a way which doesnt effectively impact the gameplay negatively in order to use the skill to the fullest.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

21 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Then the skill will keep getting replaced since the rewind is what kills it.

Sneaky, i didn't mean to say your idea is bad or anything, in fact, it's functional AND practical but it doesn't fit Protea, i guess i should've added some more context.

i'm not a fan of destroying the entire theme of a Warframe.

Protea's whole shtick in the Quest is the temporal bodyguard that kept parvos granum alive all these years, and manipulated the Granum void time to keep it away from the timestream.

my wish is to preserve Temporal anchor's main and original function, but make it do something the other abilities can't do.

 

[Aadi880]

People don't seem to realize, but resetting your position is a main attraction of this ability, not just the refunds. A major part of Warframe content requires you backtrack.

This is a fact. Players backtrack a lot. The game is not "everything exterminate big damage". No.

Y'all keep thinking about exterminate and capture. Have you ever thought about Rescue, Defense, Defection, Mobile Defense, Disruption and Spy (Or hell, even Assault)? In fact, spy has the most use as you will be immediately exiting a vault to proceed to the next.

Her turrets and grenades help on exterminate, but they are useless on objective focused missions that don't require killing. a mission could have an objective that you would need to return to after doing something else (Hint: Railjack)

Improvements should not include removing the rewind. That would be just stupid.

I would personally suggest:
-Reduced energy cost
-Reduced animation lock on the on return.
-Longer Duration. (Maybe even infinite duration in a sense that you can rewind anytime you want, up to a certain point where you can't rewind any further to minimize CPU load)
-Ability to "cancel" the rewind half way. (Lets say you don't want to rewind all the way to the start, just half way because your next objective doesn't go all the way back)
-Ability to Instant Rewind. This will greatly help on railjack missions when you want to go from one PoI to another and don't want to teleport back to railjack.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

40 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

People don't seem to realize, but resetting your position is a main attraction of this ability, not just the refunds. A major part of Warframe content requires you backtrack.

This is a fact. Players backtrack a lot. The game is not "everything exterminate big damage". No.

Y'all keep thinking about exterminate and capture. Have you ever thought about Rescue, Defense, Defection, Mobile Defense, Disruption and Spy (Or hell, even Assault)? In fact, spy has the most use as you will be immediately exiting a vault to proceed to the next.

Her turrets and grenades help on exterminate, but they are useless on objective focused missions that don't require killing. a mission could have an objective that you would need to return to after doing something else (Hint: Railjack)

Improvements should not include removing the rewind. That would be just stupid.

I would personally suggest:
-Reduced energy cost
-Reduced animation lock on the on return.
-Longer Duration. (Maybe even infinite duration in a sense that you can rewind anytime you want, up to a certain point where you can't rewind any further to minimize CPU load)
-Ability to "cancel" the rewind half way. (Lets say you don't want to rewind all the way to the start, just half way because your next objective doesn't go all the way back)
-Ability to Instant Rewind. This will greatly help on railjack missions when you want to go from one PoI to another and don't want to teleport back to railjack.

in excavation and anything where you have to pick something up and get it back to your objective.

Protea will rewind with the object she carries IF you keep Holstering a secondary during the rewind (so it won't drop)...it has kind of it's own laws of nature that you have to experiment with it.

oh my god, i forgot that it can also reset combo counter back to it's original point in time, so you do 12x combo heavy attacks all the time, it just takes a second for the ability animation.

 

43 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

but resetting your position is a main attraction of this ability

i've been trying to say this the entire time...

 

 

why i suggested mobility for temporal anchor, because it's already lightning fast when going backwards, what if you go forwards just as fast? 

EXAMPLE: what if when the temporal implosion hits 3 enemies at least, the implosion will rewind them, while giving you an animation speed boost. 

[schilds]

They could give Temporal Anchor two uses. 

 

Hold or die to end the ability and rewind. Tap or let the duration run out to end the ability for some other effect (maybe it could store up casts or something and release them all at once).

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

how about just make it work?😅

Railjack solo - place anchor near internal core while you go outside to shoot radiator  - so you can teleport back. But no, go to AW and it vanishes.

Railjack solo - place anchor near internal core while you recall to ship to shoot radiator - so you can teleport back. But no, instead the anchor teleports into the railjack above the exit.  Unless you actually get in a turret in which case it just vanishes.

 

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Sneaky, i didn't mean to say your idea is bad or anything, in fact, it's functional AND practical but it doesn't fit Protea, i guess i should've added some more context.

i'm not a fan of destroying the entire theme of a Warframe.

Protea's whole shtick in the Quest is the temporal bodyguard that kept parvos granum alive all these years, and manipulated the Granum void time to keep it away from the timestream.

my wish is to preserve Temporal anchor's main and original function, but make it do something the other abilities can't do.

 

I'm all for not breaking the theme of a frame, it is just that Protea's theme is pretty vague in her kit and not even her time rewind really brings it to life. Heck, you barely even reflect over or see her theme during the quest and the fight. It is mentioned and that is it. The reason I brought up Xaku is that the frame is more of a time manipulator than Protea, even though it isnt even something really mentioned about the frame. 

I mean, even anchor itself is a poor representative for the time manipulation theme since Protea resets the time but not really, since she is the only thing impacted by the time rewind. Which is why I'd prefer something that simply stops or slows down time, because it is just far easier to see visually and connect to a time-theme. With anchor you just get the feeling that Protea can store herself in some droppable gadget which she can then "star trek" back to at will. I know they went for a "Tracer" gimmick on Protea, but that just doesnt represent her story, it just represents a normal time traveler and not someone that manipulates time the way she does in the story. A cool use of anchor would be if you actually rewinded everything, including mobs and then just detonated it all with a massive time bomb at the end. It would bring an actual timebender feel to it, but would still be highly pointless and probably lead to beyond-limbo frustration when in groups.

I mean I love Protea as she is, her #4 just completely misses the mark by a long long long shot. edit: Which is why I want the rewind part removed since it already fails to represent the theme.

[(NSW)StoneGhost]

On 2021-04-20 at 7:02 AM, SneakyErvin said:

TA will never be worth using aslong as it resets your position, it has the same exact flaws as the time revert ability that the Trickster has in Outriders (which nearly works the same minus the damage). Both games are "constant movement" games, a skill that effectively sets you back several seconds, sometimes up to 30 seconds or more of gameplay just arent worth having in such games.

And I gotta say, adding some odd speed buff to the skill wouldnt really solve anything, it would also not fit the theme. Protea's idea is about manipulating time, increasing her speed has nothing to do with that. So you'd trade a themebreaking helminth swap-in for a default themebreaking skill alteration, which in the end would also be replaced with a helminth option. So what would it really solve in the end?

What they should do is probably remove the actual rewind, freeze the duration of her 3 turrets while anchor is active and then have her anchor spot simply be a self rezz location incase she dies. This would let the turrets scale a great deal during anchor, far beyond what they can currently do, resulting in anchor being a good damage boost to her kit. Heck, anchor could freeze the duration of all her abilities when it is active, kinda like Xaku's #4 which would fit so well on Protea.

+1. 

Damage boost + extra survivability? Sign me up and take my money. A res on death during timer and freeze of blaze artillery would make me un-helminth larva today (as lore unfriendly as it is, it synergizes so well with blaze artillery).

I was also thinking TA just... doesn't work very well. As much as I love Protea, backwards movement just isnt helpful.

One option could be a "reverse" TA. For instance, either a negative strength or tap/hold option would speed your forward (think "blink") to a point set by cursor using the same effects as the current TA (assuming pathfinding could be worked out). 

Another would be respawn at a previously set location any time you want. That could hypothetically be useful to return to a defense objective when it's taking damage or disruption node if my exploration ended up being in the wrong direction. My least favorite part of TA is that I have almost no control over when it triggers.... :(

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

best way to fix it IMO is...

Spoiler

rename it to ZA WARUDO, and have Protea say that when activated. also her colour scheme should temporarily become yellow and green. 

in all seriousness, I don't really know how to fix Temporal Anchor. maybe it doesn't need fixing, it already refunds your energy and health and stuff, the only downside is casting cost and backpedaling, which isn't so bad given how quick we can move forwards anyway.

[Electra-VIIX]

On 2021-04-19 at 4:21 PM, Wolfdoggie said:

That's why threads like this are so hazardous to the game. Stop drawing away attention from those who came first. They've spent years protecting this galaxy only to get tossed into nursing homes and forgotten.

You can always start your own thread about hydroid instead of hijacking someone's existing topic thread about another frame.  

OP, Protea's TA is a skill I haven't mastered nor understand that well.  I appreciate that you do though.  I'm sure DE's attention is likely focused on improving and designing more innovative warframes as they're more marketable to new players than older frames.  Protea's TA ability seemed like a no-starter to me.   If the ability concept is overcomplicated, it's lost on me.  If the ability's application requires precise specific game dynamics in a "random universe," to be in place to be beneficial, it will be lost on many.  If it's the kind of ability that impacts game dynamics and is not overly complicated and intuitive to use, it would be my go-to ability.  The Protea frame is a very good frame with her 3 other abilities alone.  In a perfect world (in my head) a lot more defense would benefit Protea.  Having to always focus on range or damage, efficiency or duration doesn't leave much room in the building conversation for defense.

[sunderthefirmament]

I want to use the ability more frequently, but it's just so glitchy.  I feel like 50% of the time it just doesn't trigger the rewind.  

 

It's hard to depend on something so unreliable.

[Aesthier]

On 2021-04-19 at 1:12 PM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

but these aren't the majority

Just wondering if you could link me the source for this.  I love looking at statistics stuff 😃

[Kiaru]

On 2021-04-19 at 3:49 PM, Wolfdoggie said:

Day after day, more people continue to never ever use Hydroid, ever. DE should make him more important as a priority above all other frames as veteran priviledge cuz he's old as the ocean.

Yareli is the brand new frame and can bug out so bad you lose all attacks/skills/loot pick ups and you need to suicide and res to regain it.  I think she deserves attention more than a "bad" frame.

[Wolfdoggie]

On 2021-08-08 at 7:18 PM, Kiaru said:

Yareli is the brand new frame and can bug out so bad you lose all attacks/skills/loot pick ups and you need to suicide and res to regain it.  I think she deserves attention more than a "bad" frame.

May be the most ignorant and offensive post I've ever read on this forum, wow. I don't ever want to see a post by you again.