Anyone else miss full on support warframes?

[(PSN)i7081277]

I’ve always really liked playing support roles in all my games, I know they aren’t super popular but I personally enjoy playing as them and feel useful. But trinity just isn’t cutting it anymore. I’d personally appreciate some content that requires more dynamic teams and teamwork, specifically including support warframes. I guess that’s what trials used to be but those are long gone. Lmao, I wouldn’t even mind it if they nerfed her to make room for more variety in the role that she serves. I’d even appreciate some support weapons, as odd as that sounds. I know we have a few already but it’s a tiny category. On that note, there needs to be content that needs tanks for any reason. We have enough warframes in this game that are able to take insane damage but no use in a team setting.

[SenorClipClop]

IMO 90% of Trinity's issues would be fixed if her casting animations got the same treatment Mag's did. I enjoy Trin's kit for the most part, but she's very casting-heavy and all her abilities lock her movement, seriously cutting her momentum. She's kinda janky to play unless you stand and spam. If she got updates to those anims in the way Mag did, such as making Link an "upper-body cast", that would help out her playability immensely.

[Tyreaus]

It's a tragic problem of there just not being a niche, and it being so hard to carve one out. We're gods able to cut through armies on a whim. We don't often need supports, and by the time we might, we usually die so fast that the local Trinity ends up coming upon our corpse. Having been that Trinity multiple times, I'd know.

For a support to flourish in reality, you'd almost need a Warframe that summons their own team and serves as support for that team, with the actual squad being an incidental support target. That way, they'd always have someone to look after, even if their squad is topped up and good to go on their own.

Maybe we could call him V. Who is but two days old.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

I enjoy playing a support Equinox, giving my team an extra 80% power strength and powerful Roars. I also debuff enemies with Cedo/Nukor, but that's all I can really do as a support. Defense buffs and heals are so pointless, because everyone already that covered. As a support, all you can do is help your team kill things faster.

Edit: Also, I don't agree that we should have content that needs the holy trinity (Tanks, Healers, and DPS). Not only is it not fitting in a casual-focused looter shooter, but the holy trinity is a concept that's been overused in everything with roles.

[Aldain]

I miss when "Just AoE harder" wasn't nearly the universal answer to 90% of all of Warframe's problems.

[LillyRaccune]

31 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

IMO 90% of Trinity's issues would be fixed if her casting animations got the same treatment Mag's did.

I just wish Trinity's targeting for Well of Life and Energy Vampire was conical and not single-target aiming. I don't want to be able to zap multiple enemies, I just want to be able to aim at them without pinpoint accuracy. I'd probably stick Smite, Ensnare, Breach Surge, or Nourish on my Trin if she was easier to aim at the enemy.

[0_The_F00l]

As much as i would like for "pure support" to be worth its slot , the game unfortunately has moved on from that time.

Now support is gained by means of mods and other non frame gear (companions, operator) ,

and the few support frames still worth using are usually a mix of support + tank or support + DPS or support + loot boosters etc.

and though support is still relevant , it is no longer a necessity in gameplay.

 

[Drasiel]

6 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

I just wish Trinity's targeting for Well of Life and Energy Vampire was conical and not single-target aiming. I don't want to be able to zap multiple enemies, I just want to be able to aim at them without pinpoint accuracy. I'd probably stick Smite, Ensnare, Breach Surge, or Nourish on my Trin if she was easier to aim at the enemy.

omg I didn't even realize this was a thing I desperately needed to make playing trinity more comfortable and now I am burdened with this terrible knowledge.

[Tiltskillet]

I've never been into true support builds, but I like hybrid support, so gravitated toward Harrow.   But it's a bit sad how his  healing and energy support are only occasionally valuable in random squads.  It's usually people who are new to Warframe who are more likely to give him room to work his stuff and most likely to appreciate the results.

[(PSN)Unstar]

You can still play support if you want.  It's just that more modern Warframes tend to not just be designed around support; they do support, but are also more versatile.  See Wisp and Protea.  They heal, they CC, they kill, and they buff.  Any support you offer will still ease the burden of your fellow Tenno.  For example, if you Trinity hard enough, your allies won't have to bother being evasive and can also cast abilities with reckless abandon.  Just because you aren't needed doesn't mean you aren't beneficial.

But even back in the day, a support Warframe still had weapons.  Everyone doubles as DPS.

And tanks are plenty useful in a team setting!  Not dying prevents your teammates from having to pick you up again, which allows everyone to be more productive.  Just because it's not an MMORPG with aggro tables doesn't mean tankiness isn't helpful to the team.

[Zi-Sui]

I've played support Oberon enough to say I enjoy the support role, even if it's not too rewarding usually. The reward for me is knowing I'm the team's backbone if things get hairy, and got a versatile kit. You just can't have a topic like this and not mention Oberon. Status immunity and over 500 armor and over 100 health per sec on default on an umbral build that is sustainable in normal SP gameplay too, and helps tear through liches with Roar and 1st augment in addition to avoiding that nasty radiation proc from certain liches that kills defense targets and fellow players alike.

I'd play my Equinox strength support more if I had teammates in traditional support roles, but mostly it's just a random Wisp here or there, and then the usual damage dealers and occasional tanks and Nekros who doesn't benefit from Equinox's strength.

[(PSN)max141064]

I think you're looking for an HEALER frame, not a support one.

because warframe is filled with supports, hell some supports are the best frame there is.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

24 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

And tanks are plenty useful in a team setting!  Not dying prevents your teammates from having to pick you up again, which allows everyone to be more productive.  Just because it's not an MMORPG with aggro tables doesn't mean tankiness isn't helpful to the team.

It'd be nice if we had more ways to interact with enemy aggro. There are certain abilities that generate higher threat level, but they're either not good enough to hold enemy aggro (Decoy) or used briefly to scale off enemy damage (Defy and Absorb). I guess I just want a Decoy buff, but it doesn't seem like there's any reason to play a frame whose sole purpose is not dying (Inaros) when everyone else has that box ticked along with everything else.

[(PSN)Unstar]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

It'd be nice if we had more ways to interact with enemy aggro. There are certain abilities that generate higher threat level, but they're either not good enough to hold enemy aggro (Decoy) or used briefly to scale off enemy damage (Defy and Absorb). I guess I just want a Decoy buff, but it doesn't seem like there's any reason to play a frame whose sole purpose is not dying (Inaros) when everyone else has that box ticked along with everything else.

Honestly, the only way that aggro would matter in Warframe would be for boss-type units that are immune to CC, since aggro is really just a lesser kind of CC.

Personally, I find aggro to be a bit tired; it's actually my least favorite part of the "holy trinity" approach.  Aggro just makes enemies seem super dumb, since generally it's used to excuse them using absolutely horrible strategies.  Like focusing their attacks on tanks instead of healers, etc.

As for Inaros, I think you have to look at it from a broader perspective.  After all, you can play Banshee in any content you want and not die, it just requires more skill and effort.  If you want to survive without having as much skill/effort, you can pick other frames that require less and less and less...until, if you want, you can spend the least amount of effort possible and play Inaros.  It's a valid choice, if that's what you want.  It's not to my tastes, but to some people it's exactly what they're looking for.

[Zhoyzu]

There are so many support frames already. Like half of them are hard supports. Theres only a few HEALERs though. Wisp, Trin, and Sevagoth (who also happens to not be a support).

[Emolition]

My wisp is full out support  with all out str and duration build and 45% range only or so. Then I replaced her 4 with proteas power to support ammo and energy to.  With the short range her 3 is near useless as the flowers got like 2 meter range only.

[(NSW)Mbek]

3 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

I just wish Trinity's targeting for Well of Life and Energy Vampire was conical and not single-target aiming. I don't want to be able to zap multiple enemies, I just want to be able to aim at them without pinpoint accuracy. I'd probably stick Smite, Ensnare, Breach Surge, or Nourish on my Trin if she was easier to aim at the enemy.

This is my problem playing with Titania as well, zipping around as mini archwing is super fun and all, but hell, getting buffs with her 2 is annoying af, the precise targeting, repeated cycling, and occasional bug that wouldn't let you pick 'em.

[Voltage]

Unfortunately the support role has been completely replaced by the Operator.

[Silvertap]

Who needs support when you can hack and slash everything in the game very easily?

Honestly, for me (mr30 with more than 3k hours in the game), i don't even see reason to persue the super meta builds, i can destroy everything in my way without sweeting with "a-ok" builds...

[Surbusken]

The thing is, the more complex the higher the fail-rate.

The higher the fail-rate the less willing to carry people get, where aslong as everyone is a one-man army, it will stay casual and relaxed.

Even at like farming and eidolon entry level you start seeing the negativity, which I guess is pragmatically fair in so far as getting the job done but still ruins the experience in terms of mood.

Similarly, you also get locked into cookie cutter builds and cookie cutter frames, just based on stats, and will be expected to use a zombie rotation, if not the raging and complaining starts.

Player x over here isn't using mire with khora, vote 'em off the island!!!!1 You know lord of the flies stuff.

On a relic meso defense last night, we had a mr 28 tell a mr 5, he was "ruining the game" because he didn't put in a relic after round 5.

Which yes don't worry I did get involved in that conversation lol, but some people are just too emotionally unstable, to have even the smallest, insignificant amount of power. Which is also why there should never be a vote-kick function.

 

I feel the helpful and positive atmosphere is directly linked to fail-rates, removing fake justification for being a lamer and thus is one of the core strengths of warframe.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Support frames are fun, if you're into that sort of thing, but let's be real: there's next to no content that really justifies needing frames like Trinity. the only times I've ever had to actually use healing abilities that often is when I'm unlucky enough to get a truly underpowered squad in an Arbitration, something that's only happened twice to me in the past.

warframe doesn't really go by the usual DPS/Tank/Healer formula like other games do; every frame is designed so that it can do a little bit of everything, and that's a good thing IMO.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Wisp 300%str, infused protea dispensary instead of her 4th. cast speed and HP mote, cast dispensary, and breach surge whenever you have some energy left. You may even find randos who thank you.

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

I think one of the big reasons support frames aren't generally played very often as actual support frames rather than just adding to overall dps, is the lack of any kind of team synergy before or during the mission.

Exception to that would be eidolons where trin and Harrow are still very popular for their support, and often requested before the mission starts, ie, each player has a role to fill.

Also, in normal missions its almost always the case where you have a team of four players who are essentially playing solo with little to no regard for what their team mates are doing.   Everyone is usually geared up to the point they can complete the mission solo, which is a recommended strat.   I often play a support role but I'm 90% sure most players don't even notice the support I'm providing, and absolutely sure that its not needed in the majority of missions anyway.

Our damage potential, dps and aoe has negated the need for support in almost every way.   You don't need support if everything is dead.

[Reitrix]

7 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

As much as i would like for "pure support" to be worth its slot , the game unfortunately has moved on from that time.

Now support is gained by means of mods and other non frame gear (companions, operator) ,

and the few support frames still worth using are usually a mix of support + tank or support + DPS or support + loot boosters etc.

and though support is still relevant , it is no longer a necessity in gameplay.

 

To he fair, Healer frames would be a lot more valuable in squad play if we had properly scaling health pools for our frames and less powerful self healing.

When you're either Inaros levels of immortal or have buttons to ignore 90%+ incoming damage, the relevance of  Frame who can heal as their primary purpose drops off hard.

Trinity is still my most played Frame. She's never needed a squad to function. She was virtually impossible to kill and was still effective at clearing missions because weapons exist. 

But playing her in a squad is nearly pointless.

EV? Who cares, Energy pads plus Zenurik, Rage or dispensary.

We'll of Life? Magus Repair, Arcane grace and health pads.

Blessing? A frame is either immortal (Shieldgate, abilities or insane armor) or dead. There is no state between those 2 extremes so it loses its  primary value, leaving it as just some DR.

That's not to say she's useless. Just that her whole kit is basically  freely available to all Frames. 

I'd honestly like to see an overhaul of how Warframes take damage. That would do a whole heck of a lot in improving the value of healer frames to squads. 

[Zi-Sui]

16 minutes ago, (XBOX)Hyperion Rexx said:

I think one of the big reasons support frames aren't generally played very often as actual support frames rather than just adding to overall dps, is the lack of any kind of team synergy before or during the mission.

Exception to that would be eidolons where trin and Harrow are still very popular for their support, and often requested before the mission starts, ie, each player has a role to fill.

Also, in normal missions its almost always the case where you have a team of four players who are essentially playing solo with little to no regard for what their team mates are doing.   Everyone is usually geared up to the point they can complete the mission solo, which is a recommended strat.   I often play a support role but I'm 90% sure most players don't even notice the support I'm providing, and absolutely sure that its not needed in the majority of missions anyway.

Our damage potential, dps and aoe has negated the need for support in almost every way.   You don't need support if everything is dead.

Harrow is to my limited understanding for scrublords in Eidolons, for people who cba to farm/buy/whatever their Arcane Nullifier rank 5 and use it in their eidolon build. Oberon is just as justified or moreso than Harrow, because Harrow is a selfish damage dealer who can be replaced by Nekramecramechs, but Oberon can have his 1st ability augment to buff extra radiation damage to his squadmates during limb and last phase, in addition to having a roar from helminth there on his 4th, and in addition to the healing he provides moreso for dying squadmates than lures. In my experience at least, after 60+ eidolon caps mostly in casual premades, people die more than lures do, and I rarely if ever let my lures die as Trin but can't say the same about the people there. Oh and their pets too, those adarzas... they die less when Oberon is around, due to Oberon's passive pet tankiness buff. What Harrow actually does better than Oberon is selfish damage and radiation proc protection, but... these days we have Nekramechs and Arcane Nullifier rank 5 for that.

My Inaros can handle up to 2 hours and 15 minutes of survival fissure btw, around to level 450 enemies, which is probably not very good. Didn't die, but having 3rd of your healthbar gone faster than you blink an eye, is where I decided it was no longer worth the risk. And my Inaros is almost as tanky as an Inaros gets (missing Primed Vigor).